CJ Wilson

[retailguy]

If Wilson sticks it will be in a Jarius Wynn type roll. Sliding Jenkins around and getting all these big 4-3 type DEs tells me one of two things:

1. Brad Jones isn't very good. We could be making the shift to a 3-3 as our base pass defense like we had last year with Kampman in order to take Jones off the field.

2. Wynn is very good. He impressed last year and has natural pass rush ability from the edge. If he took big steps a 3-3 pass defense could still make sense.

I don't agree on Jones. I think he's fine. Not every player has to go to the pro bowl to be a quality player.

Jones needs to make a jump in the second year as part of his normal progression. If he does, he'll be far more than adequate. If he doesn't, he'll be a stopgap until they find someone else.

I can't comment on Wynn, haven't seen him play much and don't know a damn thing about him.

[wist43]

I like Jones well enough... don't know what his ceiling is though. He leveled off as the season wore on - so, was that who he is as a player???

... or, did he hit the rookie wall, his legs went dead, and with an offseason of being in an NFL program, we can expect him to progress and improve to where we can view him as a starter and a playmaker??? I don't know the answer to that.

As for Wilson... I'd at least take a look at him in sub packages coming off the edge from OLB; don't need to play him there full time - you can vary your pass rush packages - just give him some opportunities from LB, and see how he does. He's listed at 288 lbs, but is he really that big?? Kirkland and played LB at 270, and Woodley is listed at 265. Kind of reminds me of a bigger Keith McKenzie.

[RashanGary]

I'd like to see him get a couple chances to rush the edge too, Wist. I don't like him as a full time OLB. Ideally he's a 4-3 DE, but since we play the 3-4 and the OLBs rush the edge, I think it would be nice to at least get a peak of him coming off the edge, especially on the right side of the offense, where I think in certain matchups he'll actually be fast enough to pressure the edge and then he can set up several power moves too.

He seems to have a unique skillset. Some guys will be able to block him, but I think with his strength/speed ratio, he could give some tackles fits.

[bobblehead]

Are any of you guys commenting on Brad Jones even aware that the dude got 4 sacks in the last 5 games?

[retailguy]

Are any of you guys commenting on Brad Jones even aware that the dude got 4 sacks in the last 5 games?

Yup, that's true. But there were a lot of mental breakdowns on those plays where he didn't get a sack, and further, was exploited big time, in the playoff game.

Whisenhunt's defense made him look like the rookie he was.

I think he played very well in the time he was given. I think he played very well and adequately replaced Kampman when he went down. But, he needs to play more consistently too.

I'm not down on him at all. Quite the opposite. I really like him. But if he plateaus where he left off last season, that won't be a good thing, notwithstanding the 4 sacks he managed to achieve in the process.

[RashanGary]

Are any of you guys commenting on Brad Jones even aware that the dude got 4 sacks in the last 5 games?

Jones was another guy, I don't know if anyone remembers, but he had some impressive pass rush tape of him at Colorado. He played solid football last year. He's a prospect that I'm glad to have on our team. No guarantees, but he has a chance to be the next GB 7th round gem.

[3irty1]

I'm sure we'll be lining up in plenty of 3-3 nickel formations on defense. Many 3-4 teams do, and Dom has a tendency to show a myriad of different looks throughout the season.

If and when we do go to a 3-3 nickel look for pass defense I'm betting it's Chillar that mans that other OLB spot, as he's one of the better cover LB's we have atm and has some (albiet limited) pass rush ability. He's started at OLB in 3 LB sets before so there will be familiarity for him there. I doubt very highly we'll be rushing 5 very often from a 3-3, so I don't think we'll have converted DE's standing up from that look. It would be a dead giveaway where the rush is coming from.

Honestly, though, I'd rather not think about Kampman as an OLB last season and pretend that's what we should do again this year. Jones outperformed Kampman last year given about the same amount of starting time at OLB. He's a natural 3-4 OLB which gives him an advantage over any converted 4-3 DE. He'll outperform any other converts again this year. I'm happy with Jones as our starter, and he's only going to get better.

When we were in a 3-3 last year Kampman was lined up at DE. The formation looked something like this:

Kampman........Pickett.......Jenkins
.................................................. ......Mathews
...........Barnett...........Hawk


If the coaching staff didn't have confidence in Jones or just had more confidence in Wynn they could justify taking Jones off the field in the 2-4 and going back to a 3-3 as a base pass D. There was talk about Jenkins taking reps on the left. This is significant because it would make him an edge rusher opposite of Mathews in a 3-3 set. Wynn and Wilson will probably try to fill a similar roll.

[Gunakor]

Our 3-3 this year will probably look like this:

Jenkins...........Raji............Pickett
.................................................. ..Matthews
..........Chillar.........Barnett

I just don't see us using this as our base pass D. Jones doesn't look like the fish out of water that Kampman looked like last year at OLB.

..............Raji.............Pickett
Jones......................................Matthew s
..........Chillar................Barnett

That's what I think our base pass D will look like. Certainly we will show different looks, but this should be our base. It creates deception - are we rushing 3, or 4? Which side is it coming from? Could we be sending Chillar or Barnett on a rush up the middle while dropping Jones into coverage? Maybe we send 5? So many things to consider, and the play clock is ticking.

It's different from using Kampy from that formation, because a) Kampy was awful in coverage, and b) Kampy wasn't the same pass rusher standing up. Jones was and is simply better than Kampman at OLB, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him on the field at OLB more often than Kampy was. The 2-4 should work with the personnel we have.

As far as Wynn and Wilson are concerned, don't forget they're fighting with Mike Neal for PT too. And if Johnny Jolly somehow makes it onto our gameday roster this year, Wynn and Wilson probably won't see much PT at all.

[mission]

You think Brad Jones *isn't* very good, but Jarius Wynn *is* "very good"?

Hard to read much beyond that...

[3irty1]

You think Brad Jones *isn't* very good, but Jarius Wynn *is* "very good"?

Hard to read much beyond that...

Well you should because that's not what I said. The moves the coaching staff is making lead me to believe they are either high on Wynn or low on Jones.

[mission]

The moves the coaching staff is making lead me to believe they are either high on Wynn or low on Jones.

I guess that hasn't been my impression from reading anything this offseason... any links or quotes or anything that has you thinking that? It's possible I've missed something. I've always thought of Wynn as more of a Montgomery type -- not much ceiling.

[3irty1]

Our 3-3 this year will probably look like this:

Jenkins...........Raji............Pickett
.................................................. ..Matthews
..........Chillar.........Barnett

I just don't see us using this as our base pass D. Jones doesn't look like the fish out of water that Kampman looked like last year at OLB.

..............Raji.............Pickett
Jones......................................Matthew s
..........Chillar................Barnett

That's what I think our base pass D will look like. Certainly we will show different looks, but this should be our base. It creates deception - are we rushing 3, or 4? Which side is it coming from? Could we be sending Chillar or Barnett on a rush up the middle while dropping Jones into coverage? Maybe we send 5? So many things to consider, and the play clock is ticking.

It's different from using Kampy from that formation, because a) Kampy was awful in coverage, and b) Kampy wasn't the same pass rusher standing up. Jones was and is simply better than Kampman at OLB, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him on the field at OLB more often than Kampy was. The 2-4 should work with the personnel we have.

As far as Wynn and Wilson are concerned, don't forget they're fighting with Mike Neal for PT too. And if Johnny Jolly somehow makes it onto our gameday roster this year, Wynn and Wilson probably won't see much PT at all.

Our base pass D was the 3-3 when Kampman was the starter. In this formation Kampman played DE not OLB. He'd rush almost exclusively and never standing up. Jenkins/Wynn/Wilson will likely be replacing him should we begin using the 3-3 as our base pass D again. Capers did the same thing when he was in Miami.

Ultimately the scheme will be chosen by matchups and what gets the best players on the field but with the moves the coaching staff is making it seems like they have more confidence in a 3-3 without Jones than a 2-4 with Jones. If they are preferring a 3-3 it must be because of all the edge rushing talent they think they have in Jenkins, Wynn, and Wilson or because they don't feel comfortable giving Jones all those reps in every subpackage.

If either Jones or Wynn/Wilson turn out to be too good to take off the field then the Packers are a better team for it. Personally I'm rooting for Jones. I hope all this 3-3 preparation is just because they know they have no OLB backups and should CMIII or Jones go down, we'll need a backup plan. No matter what base pass D we play I'd bet that Hawk will find a way into it. For the second half of last season Hawk was the better of the two.

[Joemailman]

If Wilson sticks it will be in a Jarius Wynn type roll. Sliding Jenkins around and getting all these big 4-3 type DEs tells me one of two things:

1. Brad Jones isn't very good. We could be making the shift to a 3-3 as our base pass defense like we had last year with Kampman in order to take Jones off the field.

2. Wynn is very good. He impressed last year and has natural pass rush ability from the edge. If he took big steps a 3-3 pass defense could still make sense.

I have a slightly different take. If Harrell is healthy, (I know, a huge if), and if Jolly stays out of jail, the Packers talent on the DL is better than at LB. If they can find someone on the DL who can fill in some at LB, they may keep an extra D-Lineman on the roster, and 1 fewer player at LB. They'd rather cut a guy like Poppinga than cut a guy like Wilson.

[3irty1]

If Wilson sticks it will be in a Jarius Wynn type roll. Sliding Jenkins around and getting all these big 4-3 type DEs tells me one of two things:

1. Brad Jones isn't very good. We could be making the shift to a 3-3 as our base pass defense like we had last year with Kampman in order to take Jones off the field.

2. Wynn is very good. He impressed last year and has natural pass rush ability from the edge. If he took big steps a 3-3 pass defense could still make sense.

I have a slightly different take. If Harrell is healthy, (I know, a huge if), and if Jolly stays out of jail, the Packers talent on the DL is better than at LB. If they can find someone on the DL who can fill in some at LB, they may keep an extra D-Lineman on the roster, and 1 fewer player at LB. They'd rather cut a guy like Poppinga than cut a guy like Wilson.

Really I forgot about option 3:

3. They know that the OLB depth sucks. If something would happen to either Brad Jones or CMIII the defense would need to switch the base pass D to a 3-3 because of lack of depth.

[Smidgeon]

..............Raji.............Pickett
Jones......................................Matthew s
..........Chillar................Barnett

That's what I think our base pass D will look like. Certainly we will show different looks, but this should be our base.

I don't think Chillar will replace Hawk in the base. They don't even play the same position. As far as I understand, the two ILBs are not interchangeable. One takes on the blockers and linemen that get past the D-Line (and as gravy is supposed to shed blocks and tackle) and the other is supposed to run free and clean up behind him. (If I have that wrong, someone correct me.)

Chiller plays the same position Barnett does. Hawk is the bouncer in front who takes on lead blocks and linemen that get free from the D-Line. And he's a reliable one. Do you want Chiller--whose strengths are allegedly pass rush and coverage (I'm no scout, thus the allegedly)--taking on lead blockers and linemen?