Concerns for 2010 (No Particular Order)

[retailguy]

Retail, everyone sees through the charade.

Nope, not this puppy. I think the animosity by some posters shown towards RG on this thread have clouded it for me so much that I can't see or follow the thinking.

I don't get RG's message, by the same token, I don't get you calling him out, Nick.

I don't think that some posters understand what RG is trying to say. Being a long-time extreme TT critic; stating that the Packers are now very talented; and still making sarcastic cracks ridiculing TT's capabilities are contradictions.

If you ask me RG is on some level disappointed and frustrated that the Packers are looking so good and he was wrong about TT and his team-building strategy.

Nope. Not at all. I didn't agree with the methods, this development was very painful for me to watch. That being said, I expect the team to do well this year, and do not believe the minor holes it has will affect it much.

[RashanGary]

The Packers are SB competitors. It's your imagination that I backpedaled. I knew you were setting up expectations higher than any team could live up to.

When I swooped in to say those expectations are high, you accuse me of backpedaling.

I knew you were playing a game. Now I know the name of it.



People might not know, for sure, what you're doing, but there are a lot of people who aren't taking what you're saying seriously because we can tell you have some strange motive. In this case, it was the gotchya game. You think you can just post, "you look silly" and it's so. People here are smarter than that, RG. Your tactics have lost their effectiveness because people don't trust you. I don't anyway.

That's not a personal attack. That's how I respond to you, with caution and mistrust.

[retailguy]

The Packers are SB competitors. It's your imagination that I backpedaled. I knew you were setting up expectations higher than any team could live up to.

When I swooped in to say those expectations are high, you accuse me of backpedaling.

I knew you were playing a game. Now I know the name of it.



People might not know, for sure, what you're doing, but there are a lot of people who aren't taking what you're saying seriously because we can tell you have some strange motive. In this case, it was the gotchya game. You think you can just post, "you look silly" and it's so. People here are smarter than that, RG. Your tactics have lost their effectiveness because people don't trust you. I don't anyway.

That's not a personal attack. That's how I respond to you, with caution and mistrust.

Justin, I just told you what I did. Plain, clear and to the point. You can describe me any way you'd like. I'm not doing "anything", this is a sports forum. I picked on you and a couple of others a little bit, but really, that's all I did.

I also stated my optimism for the coming season. There are no other motives for at least the 6th time.

It doesn't matter to me whether or not anyone sees "what I'm doing". I don't understand why you take this so seriously, it is really kind of funny. For a long long time, things happen here by "majority". minority views are ridiculed. All I did was ridicule the majority view a bit. That's it.

[Tarlam!]

Geez, in the interest of the members, let's bury the threadjack and go back to the original topic. 3 pages of this crap is enough, don't we think?

[RashanGary]

Whatever. It's a good year coming up. We have a great chance at a SB. A few things have to bounce our way, but I like our chances. I like our strengths and hope for some health in our weaker areas or even a trade or two at deadlines could help.

[RashanGary]

Geez, in the interest of the members, let's bury the threadjack and go back to the original topic. 3 pages of this crap is enough, don't we think?

You are an excellent rescuer!

[get louder at lambeau]

So to paraphrase retail-

"It now looks like I was wrong in believing that Ted Thompson didn't know what he was doing, but I don't feel like just admitting it, so I thought I'd make a cute little game of it by saying that we're going undefeated! I'm so clever, and you guys are so stupid! LOLOL!!"

[mraynrand]

That was a pretty shameful display, Retail. You are admitting that you were playing a game. You were also dishonest: You wrote: "The vicious attacks were really priceless. Not ONE legitimate reason why the team can't succeed, just repeated statements that "my expectations were too high". Well, I and various people pointed out legitimate reasons why the team might not succeed. Most, responding to the original intent of the thread, addressed the concerns in a thoughtful, legitimate manner. I'm very sorry to say that you poisoned the process by playing a dishonest 'gotcha' game (actually, thinking about it, it's not so much dishonest as it is like a troll technique - pushing buttons in a way that you know you're likely to get a knee-jerk emotional response). You could have just stated your opinion about the team, Thompson, etc. without the (accurately described by JH) charade. Your disagreement with those who like the Thompson strategy would have been welcome (or not) but it would have been far better if presented honestly and openly. I was sorry to see you choose the route you did.

BTW, This is how I would critique Thompson writing from the anti--Thompson perspective: "Many have supported the Thompson strategy of concentrating on the draft and coaching up internally, rather than signing free agents. Based on some of the gaps in the roster - defensive back, possibly pass rush, depth at LB and OT - it seems to me that Thompson needed to jump into free agency to address at least one of these areas. If the team suffers for it (dropping out of the playoffs early), it will be a significant repudiation of the Thompson strategy - at the very least so far as making a Superbowl run is concerned."

Gee thanks Dad.

Let's be real straightforward. I don't believe that there are legitimate reasons for this team not to succeed. We have one starting position in a bit of flux for the first several weeks of the season. Harris will be back. Is he over the hill? Hope not. But I don't know. You have to believe that McCarthy & Thompson DO know or they would have done something. It makes the dime weak. Nickel too, but again, when a starter is out, you expect that. It is certainly something you expect them to play through and to compensate for with safety help.

Pass rush? Is it a concern? I don't think they believe it to be. I hope the defense has been largely vanilla. If it isn't, defensively the team will take a step back. But realistically, they can afford a step back and still be competitive and successful. A secondary concern compared to the holes of the past 3 seasons.

As to your second paragraph, I agree with it, however, it isn't realistic, AND more importantly it's been said many times. It isn't appropriate for this season, maybe next, but likely two years out before you can say that with any validity. I could have chose to shoot it down with the same rhetoric we've all heard before but I'll spare you the agony, since you might ground me.

The only intangible that really remains, is, does Ted alter his approach if they make a run and it doesn't work (ie - loss in the NFCC or the divisional round), and they "tool up" next year and make another run. Does that "tool up" happen with young guys, or older established veterans via free agency?

I think Ted believes he can get over the hump with almost all drafted players. I don't know if he can, but IF he can, this seems to be the year to do it.

When the biggest complaints are the pass rush, and the 3rd cornerback, and the fear of injury? Hell rand, this team is stacked. With Ted's players.

What I said about my predictions of the season stands. It wasn't and isn't a game. What I said about Ted stands, it wasn't or isn't a game. The method of delivery? Sure. I mimicked several personalities and conveyed EXACTLY what they said in response to your point #2 over the last 3 years. And we got the same responses that we gave them over the last 3 years...

You're welcome. This was a much more reasoned response. I'll lift your grounding.

Seriously though, what do you mean by: "As to your second paragraph, I agree with it, however, it isn't realistic, AND more importantly it's been said many times. It isn't appropriate for this season"

If the Packers drop out early from the playoffs due to personnel problems at one or more of the following: DB, OL and pass rushing OLB/DE, why would this not be a repudiation of Thompson's ability to to use FA to make a Superbowl run. We know he can build a talented roster through the draft - he's done it twice in two different cities. What we don't know is whether he can seal the deal using FA/trade when necessary (or whether he can get by without making repeated dips into the FA/pro player pool). Dropping out of the playoffs early again this year would be an another argument against his strategy, would it not? Or are you saying it has to happen three or four years in a row to establish a pattern?

[retailguy]

If the Packers drop out early from the playoffs due to personnel problems at one or more of the following: DB, OL and pass rushing OLB/DE, why would this not be a repudiation of Thompson's ability to to use FA to make a Superbowl run. We know he can build a talented roster through the draft - he's done it twice in two different cities. What we don't know is whether he can seal the deal using FA/trade when necessary (or whether he can get by without making repeated dips into the FA/pro player pool). Dropping out of the playoffs early again this year would be an another argument against his strategy, would it not? Or are you saying it has to happen three or four years in a row to establish a pattern?

From my vantage point it probably would be a repudiation. (But that won't count for very much) The issue becomes we don't have a pattern, so we'll hear lots of other reasons. A few valid, but most conjecture based on their personal opinions of Ted.

Honestly, even Sherman got a few years of getting "close" before folks started to get frustrated with the FA approach he had to plugging holes. Criticism got strong after 2003, with it reaching a crazed fever pitch in 2004.

I don't believe we were in position for a run until this year. Last years "holes" had to do with starting positions. Last year we had more issues with regard to backup depth, and the rookies were expected to contribute, and a few actually did, with Matthew's surpassing all expectations. Even I think Ted gets more than one stacked year to "make it". Though I can't come up with a legitimate reason as to why he'd need another year. It should happen this year.

I don't believe that there is any hope that your point will be accepted after this season, even if they're "one and done" in the playoffs again. I don't even think you'll get most to buy into it with an 8-8 season or below. After all, you read it for yourself "the meter is pointing in the right direction". Impossible to quantify, and again based on their personal opinions of Ted.

Thanks for taking me off of grounding. I'll try to be good. Honest.

[Scott Campbell]

I worry every year about the pass rush except when we had Dave Roller.

[ThunderDan]

I guess after we lost to TB last year not 1 of the supposed "ProPacker" supporter didn't call for TT and MM heads. I mean let's be honest here. There has been times of TT bashing on this board. Of course when you finish a season 7-1 it tends to make it harder to critize the product on the field.

[MichiganPackerFan]

Short of a rash of injuries which can derail any good team at any time, I will satisfied with a playoff win and happy with a NFCCG appearance. I think that winning 3 of 4 in the MINx2, DAL & NE games will be a good sign of things to come in the playoffs.

[Tarlam!]

I guess after we lost to TB last year not 1 of the supposed "ProPacker" supporter didn't call for TT and MM heads. I mean let's be honest here. There has been times of TT bashing on this board. Of course when you finish a season 7-1 it tends to make it harder to critize the product on the field.

I consider myself ProPacker and I didn't call for anyone's head. I was too devastated.

[Scott Campbell]

Ted hides behind secrecy at unnecessary times. I do not believe that communicating fairly with the media, even on occasion, would harm this team. Yet, it goes on and on and on.

I believe it speaks to his character. That's why I said what I said. Would be happy to be wrong, but I've been watching it for 4 years now and it doesn't change. I honestly think he enjoys saying nothing. The fact he does it for no reason (or very little reason) pisses me off.

For an otherwise rational guy, this is kinda crazy. He's in introvert. That's not a character flaw. I don't understand how you can watch a few clips of the guy and project Voldemort levels of evil onto the poor guy. Ted's making you kinda nutty. Just look at this thread.

[Tony Oday]

I guess after we lost to TB last year not 1 of the supposed "ProPacker" supporter didn't call for TT and MM heads. I mean let's be honest here. There has been times of TT bashing on this board. Of course when you finish a season 7-1 it tends to make it harder to critize the product on the field.

I consider myself ProPacker and I didn't call for anyone's head. I was too devastated.

I dont think I did.