Moss to the Vikings?

[Cheesehead Craig]

Moss said, "I still have a lot of love for the Minnesota Vikings, man. Just luckily I did get traded here. For what reasons, I still don't know to this day. But I am back."

He doesn't know why he was traded? Really? He throws a fit in NE starts talking publicly about not being loved there, calls out the organization, reportedly has verbal altercations with Brady and the QB coach and also reportedly doesn't get along with the HC and he wonders why he was traded?

Must be nice to live in a world where you don't see any consequences for your actions.

Sorrry man but your mistaken.

Scan up a post or two and you'll discover that the stuff your basing your opinions on are incorrect. Moss got along well in New England and the record to date proves support for that 'as a fact'.

His HC for 'the Pats' Bill Belichick and his teammated do not support that Randy Moss was anything but a solid Patriot. Inmbelieve that Moss was expendable based inthe fact that NE may be looking ahead to that clubs future and felt that it was smart to move Randy Moss to place him in a venue that would be good for him and also allow his needs for a future contract to be met.

It turns out the Belichick and Randy Moss spoke to one another and overall the result was the trade to 'the Vikings'for a 3rd round pick.

Everyone gets 'to happy' that's involved in that transaction. Sometimes it does turn out that way. Even today where we live in a world that is so cynical and not as bright as some of us wish it was and hope it will be.

I hope this helps your understanding of what's real and true Vs false.

Have a great weekend.

GO PACK GO !

I do not believe I am mistaken. Moss publically called out the Pats organization for not giving him a contract extention after their game 1 win, that's a fact.

He apparently wanted out of the Pats since that time, per Welker.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/category/_/name/pats-players-reaction-to-moss-trade

The telling quote:
Welker was asked about reports that Moss had wanted out, asking to be traded.

“I think that was kind of the difficult thing, just because he was the guy giving the pep talks before games and halftime, and after the game,” Welker said. “Not knowing he wanted to be traded the whole time was a little bit disappointing. At the same time, he’s doing what’s best for him. It’s a business. You just have to roll with it.”

Welker seems to have found out that Moss wanted out this whole time.

Other sources dispute that there were issues in the locker room.

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=5655198&campaign=rss&source=twitter&ex_cid=Twitter_espn_5655198

So there were issues with Randy and the Pats ownership and coaches, otherwise the trade would not have happened. If everything was great, there would never have been a trade.

So I don't believe I'm mistaken one bit.

I hope this post helps you see fact from fiction

Have a good weekend.

[Scott Campbell]

When we last saw Moss in MN, he complained about not getting the ball enough (not necessarily unusual for WRs). At one time this resulted in the talk of a "Randy Ratio", which I thought was a poor approach by the coaches. Moss admitted to loafing through plays he would not be involved in. He walked off the field before a game was done. He had other acts of immaturity.

The loafing got worse in Oakland, according to reports.

Moss has been different in NE, until his little incident at the start of the season.
Was this due to Bellechik or did Moss mature?
Will Moss be motivated, or will he complain about a new contract?

The difference according to reports is that Moss respected Belicheck, but did not hold the assistant coaches in the same regard. As you mention, a lot depends on how Chilldress handles the situation.

But as for maturing, his opponents have said on more than one occasion that he still takes plays off. You could see him taking plays off in the game versus the Dolphins. In fact, it seems that it went so far that when the Patriots went five wide, there was a TE and a RB in the pattern, but no Moss. One opposing player said this helped tip defenses off to the coming play.

He may very well be the difference maker in Minnesota, but it will not be because he changed.

He takes plays off, but they're not random plays off. He's playing to get paid now. In NE he was playing to get traded. I expect he'll have his shit together.

[pbmax]

When we last saw Moss in MN, he complained about not getting the ball enough (not necessarily unusual for WRs). At one time this resulted in the talk of a "Randy Ratio", which I thought was a poor approach by the coaches. Moss admitted to loafing through plays he would not be involved in. He walked off the field before a game was done. He had other acts of immaturity.

The loafing got worse in Oakland, according to reports.

Moss has been different in NE, until his little incident at the start of the season.
Was this due to Bellechik or did Moss mature?
Will Moss be motivated, or will he complain about a new contract?

The difference according to reports is that Moss respected Belicheck, but did not hold the assistant coaches in the same regard. As you mention, a lot depends on how Chilldress handles the situation.

But as for maturing, his opponents have said on more than one occasion that he still takes plays off. You could see him taking plays off in the game versus the Dolphins. In fact, it seems that it went so far that when the Patriots went five wide, there was a TE and a RB in the pattern, but no Moss. One opposing player said this helped tip defenses off to the coming play.

He may very well be the difference maker in Minnesota, but it will not be because he changed.

He takes plays off, but they're not random plays off. He's playing to get paid now. In NE he was playing to get traded. I expect he'll have his shit together.

He didn't manage that in NE for the first four games of his contract year. He is the same player. He reacted poorly because it became apparent that NE was not going to extend him. I think if the contract issue stays the same, he will play the same. He will still be close to All World when his number is called, otherwise, he'll be loafing.

[woodbuck27]

This has been an ugly ...UGLY day for me @ Packerrats in terms of the possible Brett Favre scandal having a foundation of TRUTH.

This is the best portion of a post I've seen you make on this. Obviously you and I feel very different about this news. But then there is issue of the news itself. And that stands alone, apart from how you and I feel about it. And it deserves to be here, as it's relevant to the Packer season.

NO Scott. Absolutely NO.

There is ' no place ' for that defamatory content in this section of Packerrats or in my opinion, any section of Packerrats.

I'll explain to you the best I can. Why I believe this is the case Scott Campbell?

It's flaming and in terms related to the principle parties RE: your or anyone else's here at Packerrats. This issue with Brett Favre specifically related to the Deadspin release:

Is accusing and / or defamatory.

PACKERRATS is more important than ........ you.

The reputation of PACKERRATS is more important than ......you.

Also. Your going to risk ruining a decent thread if you continue.

[woodbuck27]

Im mean WTF is it really that entertaining?

The league is investigating it. People are calling for his suspension if the allegations are legit. And the Vikings who are on are schedule twice yet the season look a lot different with T-Jack behind center than Bert.

I'm sorry if real news makes you uncomfortable. But it's relevant to the Packers.

Fuck you fool, you know what I meant so dont try to spin it. Talking about moss is legit, talking about Favre in the favre thread is legit. You and Woody going back and forth like some fucking school girls is just stupid. That is what is not entertaining, it is the same tired BS. Cant you fucking ignore him and Woody if you are being a saint why the fuck are you even responding to SC??? if this was face to face it would be like you both coming inot a room we are all talking in and taking a big crap right there. I dont wanna smell it and I bet several others feel the same.

Mad.

I have posted Scott Campbell RE: this matter for the LAST time.

I'm trying to help him Mad. Believe just that Mad. I care about this man whoever he is, but he has to now. Help himself. I'm done with him and that. OUT!

[gex]

Campell hasn't just ruined this thread, He has brought this whole forum down with his idiotic obsessions and posting like a 12 year old.
IMO he has chased many a good poster away from this site.

[mission]

Both of you guys need to relax a bit on the junior high school stuff. A little shit here and there is funny but otherwise it borders on Ty / Partial territory, and that just takes away from the content.

Campell hasn't just ruined this thread, He has brought this whole forum down with his idiotic obsessions and posting like a 12 year old.
IMO he has chased many a good poster away from this site.

Not that I'm a complete angel but you've definitely had your 12 year old moments.

As far as the Brett Favre stuff. PackerRats "reputation" is not important. If it was, we'd have an actual website and would allow new users to register. It's news in the NFL right now, it will affect the Vikings / Favre in *some* way. Just because it shines negatively on the hero of some doesn't make it any less worthy of a thread.

The site is what it is and I think it has a large percentage of the knowledgeable online Packer diehards. I think it's great, I like most of you guys. I get a lot of laughs here and a lot of good Packer talk. Don't like it, go somewhere else.

Like a Vikings forum.

[Scott Campbell]

Campell hasn't just ruined this thread, He has brought this whole forum down with his idiotic obsessions and posting like a 12 year old.
IMO he has chased many a good poster away from this site.

I think it's high time we reconcile gex. I've always admired the cut of your jib. Consider this my olive branch to you.

And we could really use your unique perspective over in the OFFICIAL FAVRE SEX SCANDAL ROCKS THE SPORTS WORLD thread.

[swede]

Campell hasn't just ruined this thread, He has brought this whole forum down with his idiotic obsessions and posting like a 12 year old.
IMO he has chased many a good poster away from this site.

I think it's high time we reconcile gex. I've always admired the cut of your jib. Consider this my olive branch to you.
.

Scott, we have told you how we feel about your chasing the other posters with idiotic obsessions, and yet here we are again.

[woodbuck27]

i don't see how this is anything but an outstanding move by minnesota. they were already all in, we all knew that. now they just sent a 4th round pick(no big deal imo) for one of, if not THE best wr in the nfl.

Not that it matters a lot, but I think it is a 3rd, not a 4th round pick.

Moss is still a good receiver and should fill a need for the Vikings; but I don't consider him the best by any means.

Is Childress coach enough to deal with Moss? Will the "Randy Ratio" return? Has Moss matured? This could be a very good thing for the Vikings, but it also might not be all roses.

Moss wasn't the problem you may think he was Patler. For your book of knowledge there's this:

Patriots GM and HC Bill Belichick speaks on the Randy Moss trade

There was never any incident or discipline problem with Randy. Bilichick and Pats players defend Moss's attitude and effort.

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/index.php/2010/10/07/patriots-coach-bill-belichick-speaks-on-the-moss-trade-there-was-never-any-incident-or-discipline-problem-with-randy/

and this:

In Defense Of Randy Moss

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1287488&srvc=blog

GO PACKERS!

Did I say he was a problem in NE? Nope, I didn't. Why are you reading that into it? You missed the point completely, Woody.

I simply asked a few questions:

"Is Childress coach enough to deal with Moss?" (Obviously, Bellicheck was.)
"Will the "Randy Ratio" return?" They had it when he last played in MN.
"Has Moss matured?" (If he has, things will be different)

I then concluded that, based on the answers to those questions, "This could be a very good thing for the Vikings, but it also might not be all roses."

When we last saw Moss in MN, he complained about not getting the ball enough (not necessarily unusual for WRs). At one time this resulted in the talk of a "Randy Ratio", which I thought was a poor approach by the coaches. Moss admitted to loafing through plays he would not be involved in. He walked off the field before a game was done. He had other acts of immaturity.

The loafing got worse in Oakland, according to reports.

Moss has been different in NE, until his little incident at the start of the season.
Was this due to Bellechik or did Moss mature?
Will Moss be motivated, or will he complain about a new contract?

I will say it again:

This could be a very good thing for the Vikings, but it also might not be all roses. I don't think anything is guaranteed with Moss. As one Viking Player put it:

As Silver quoted one unnamed Viking saying, "I think it's all or nothing. It's either the missing piece and we go all the way, or Moss takes on Chilly and this thing blows up by the end of October. There's no C grade on this one. It'll either be an A or an F."

Hi Patler:

First of all. The trade this week of Randy Moss (RM) to Minnesota for a third round pick and it's possible impact for New England's future:

The Pat's got a third from Minny, rather than a compensatory pick or maybe? a 5th rounder, if they had not awarded Moss a contract. Of course Moss wants a solid contract as it may be his last? So NE did the logical thing or made a trade. All parties seem happy as this trade works out.

In NE's offense. Randy Moss was used primarily as a threat stretching the field. Having him on the LOS makes the NE offense more predictable. It's reported that Randy Moss doesn't fit into a running game as well as NE desires for their future offensive schemes.

That is the reason RM was granted a trade and went to Minny. He's happy to retrurn to Minny. Home to RM.

Legitimate reports' certainly secure us this knowledge:

That trade had nothing to do with RM and wanting a contract (NOW!) or tirade's / distractions to the Pats over 'any issue'. Randy Moss was a solid NE Patriot and was respected and liked by the NE Patriots.

“Organizationally, we’ve had conversations and obviously are comfortable with the trade,” Bill Belichick

“We wish Randy the absolute best. He’s been a player I’ve had a good relationship with. He’s very honest, when I’ve asked him questions about football and personnel and things like that. He’s been very helpful to me personally. He’s been very professional and I think a good teammate and a good contributing member of this team.... " Bill Belichick

Legitimate reports' certainly secure us this knowledge:

“I’ll just say that Randy was really a pleasure to coach,” Bill Belichick

“There was never any incident or discipline problem with Randy.” Bill Belichick

“I enjoyed having him on our team. He made a lot of contributions to this football team. When I spoke with Randy yesterday morning, the conversations were consistent with what they’ve been for the last four years – honest, open, very forthright. We talked about a lot of things that I’ll keep between Randy and myself. In the end, it was a difficult decision, but one that I feel is in the best interest of the football team. " Bill Belichick

Evidently:

The NE offense 'of late' doesn't favor RM and him getting as many looks as he once did. He's therefore not being utilized in their offense as often as he'd like in terms related to his need to produce. Randy Moss wants to impress as a top WR in the NFL. ' Randy Moss and production', allows his agent the argument for a larger new contract. This new contract may be RM's last?

So everybody wins in this trade. It would appear that RM may be a perfect fit in Minny.

Patler:

I agree with you that RM has demonstrated behaviour in his past that is distracting. Which RM shows up in a Vikings uniform remains for all NFL fans to determine. In fact now that you re-post I see that you and I are exactly on the same page in terms 'all related' to this trade.

Personal comment. RE: Members at Packerrats that want to judge me as a member that is estatic over RM in Minny. I make this rebuttal and not that I need to defend myself before some of you but out of respect for the membership as a whole:

That trade of Randy Moss to Minny. One overall view from me:

* It is what it is. We read that sentence here at Packerrats. ALOT.

* A solid trade that offers some uniqness related to ' the fact ' that everybody wins in terms of one word. POTENTIAL. Potential in terms of NE's plan always to build to the future. They have been the most successful organization in the NFL (in terms of wins) based on such prudent moves as this Randy Moss trade.

The potential that Moss offers the Vikings looks overall good. He wants to produce to help msecure a new contract that will allow him the highest earnings possible.He doesn't get that done now in NE as their in a transition offensively.

I expect that, ' the Minnesota Vikings ' are delighted to have the services of a WR such as Randy Moss is. A man that has cleaned up his act in NE or matured. That is the line on Randy Moss today Packer fans. Try to change that fact ad you may? You'd be pissing in the wind as I'd see it.

Randy Moss still has game. He's still rated among the top WR's in the NFL and his stock value has grown as he'll be a better fit in the Vikings offense. POTENTIALLY.

I see this trade as excellent for both the NE Patriots. The Pat's secured a 3rd round pick or better than they would have secured not trading RM.

RM in Minny, offers that team, in terms of what we saw prior to that trade. More ' potential ' on offense. I'm not here to comment on RM and any good or bad thing arguments. I'm not estatic that RM is now in a Viking jersey. That trade 'merely' threatens to make 'the Vikings' stronger. That's too obvious. What Randy Moss actually brings to the Viking team remains to be seen.

It will be what it will be Packer fans. Nothing but that.

GO PACK GO!

[Patler]

It's reported that Randy Moss doesn't fit into a running game as well as NE desires for their future offensive schemes.

(redacted)

So everybody wins in this trade. It would appear that RM may be a perfect fit in Minny.

I quoted only two sentences so as to shorten the response, and I don't think it results in seeing anything out of context, because I believe each statement stands on its own. If I am wrong I apologize.

I think these two statements are contradictory, and are exactly why I am not so certain in the success of this trade for the Vikings. MN should be a run-focused, Peterson-showcasing offense. He is their best weapon. If Moss didn't fit NE's style of offense, how can he fit the Vikings', which should be even more run-focused than NE's? Success of the trade will depend on Moss himself.

As to Belichick's comments, he said only what I would expect him to say whether or not there had been a problem with Moss.

[woodbuck27]

Both of you guys need to relax a bit on the junior high school stuff. A little shit here and there is funny but otherwise it borders on Ty / Partial territory, and that just takes away from the content.

Campell hasn't just ruined this thread, He has brought this whole forum down with his idiotic obsessions and posting like a 12 year old.
IMO he has chased many a good poster away from this site.

Not that I'm a complete angel but you've definitely had your 12 year old moments.

As far as the Brett Favre stuff. PackerRats "reputation" is not important. If it was, we'd have an actual website and would allow new users to register. It's news in the NFL right now, it will affect the Vikings / Favre in *some* way. Just because it shines negatively on the hero of some doesn't make it any less worthy of a thread.

The site is what it is and I think it has a large percentage of the knowledgeable online Packer diehards. I think it's great, I like most of you guys. I get a lot of laughs here and a lot of good Packer talk. Don't like it, go somewhere else.

Like a Vikings forum.

" Don't like it, go somewhere else. Like a Vikings forum " mission

mission: Are you addressing that to me? woodbuck27 mission?? Are you mission, suggesting that I join a Minnesotsa Vikings forum?

I sincerely TRUST that's not the case mission.

ALSO mission:

Please. mission, don't wrap me up in any package related to:

Scott Campbell . I don't know Scott Campbell. I don't ever imagine knowing this persona we see post here as Scott Campbell; would ever even allow that. The persona Scott Campbell is one I personally am aware of fully. I'm nothing like him. No insult intended Scott Campbell. It's a certain TRUTH. I've offered a better way, Scott Campbell. You ignore that.

I'm overall a positive contributor to Packerrats. I've always debated on certain grounds in terms of my hopes that Packerats deserves to be ranked at the top of all NFL fan sites. I try my best to contribute 'just' to that end at Packerrats. On those ocassions I'm able to be at my Packer Home.

I have a life. I have other things besides ' the Green Bay Packers'.

I will admit this. There is no team in organized sports I am and have been more loyal to. That loyalty a consistent part of my life and that as a fact inspite of anything I deem good or bad about Packer fortunes and news.

The Green Bay Packers will only die in me, when I die.

My position as a member here at Packerats:

I will not, as a poster allow any member to downgrade this forum posting garbage. Put that crap in the garbage can. That way it cannot be used in any agenda by any member here at Packerrats that may be felt byb any member here as an intimadation.

No poster's weak or too strong ego should exceed the moral and ethical fiber of Packerats. Specifically in terms related to the overall goodwill of Packerrats and it's valued membership.

I fight my battles when I must. I fight the good fight. I know when to fight and when to stop fighting.

I care about all Packerrats. I am your friend. All members at Packerfrats should believe and TRUST that as a TRUTH.

I can 'only' take that offer so far.

Why? I have my point of ultimate frustration and realization of when ' I'm beating a dead horse' to use an old expression .

I'm fair. I don't try. I am.

I can only go so far before I sacrifice my self respect and integrity. They are the tools that I use to captain my ship. Those tools never let me down. I recognize that as a TRUTH more and more as I frow 'in my lifetime'. As I mature to be more and more the person I personally need to be.

I've always stood here at Packerrats as a person true to myself. One member, that offers personal integrity and overall good will. Not all members here will agree with that and if they take that stance they are wrong. They are wrong in prejudice or misunderstanding.

I am the friend of all here at Packerrats. I certainly offer that friendship.

I'm well aware of the personal bias, prejudice and even the hatred that inspires certain posters and their manner of posting their agendas at Packerrats. I have personnaly felt their bias Vs me. I've never buckled nor will I through any members otherwise attempts to intimadate woodbuck27.

I am strong.

Posters that harm Packerrats !

I believe they expose themselves over time. How they are dealt with will be their own undoing. I will not have anything personally to do with any final decision RE: such destructive posters. I'm not an owner. Being an owner of Packerrats cannot be easy in terms related to posters that do intimadate others here. That have and will continue to act in such a manner and thus do damage to Packerrats.

Some people will not grow. Some people won't change. Some people will have agendas that are 'HATE' based and will try anything including bullying and every manner of intimadation to force through their ' hate based bias'.

Packerats must not condone anything even mildly associated with hatred.

I will never and never have had anything to do with decisions at Packerrats at the highest level. I only post to promote myself and good will with all posters here on an overall and final basis. Sometimes, inspite of all my most sincere efforts. I fail. That makes me feel sad; but it is what it is Packerrats.

I've alwaysd maintained. That no one member here should be allowed an agenda that is certainly damaging to any other member or to the membership as a whole. This forum deserves to be top notch. It can only become as such, when we post in terms related 'only' to decent manners and concern for the integrity of Packerrats.

Attacks in terms of intimadation against any poster at Packerrats. No matter if that poster has been here for one post or ten thousand must never be condoned. That is my opinion. I don't make policy.

** Sometimes we get down the garden path in a direction that isn't the best service to the integrity of Packerrats but maturity and sanity dictates common sense, in terms related to when it's time to let go.

If we go there ** we have to smarten up fast and swollow our ego's and get all the way back to posts that are of good will. Just that or 'GOOD WILL'. Where I come from it's called common sense and the gesture is a sincere effort to understand the healing in 'just giving PEACE' by shaking hands.

Every fight has to end. Otherwise ego's rule.

It cannot be this:

Not... more attacks, slurs, inaccuracies based in personal agendas and emotions. WE have to let go of any post that is obviously directed at another poster in terms of intimidation or of a manner that adds stress to that posters life. That has gone on here and as a result many decent posters have felt thatintimadation and just disappeared or arn't around Packerrats as much as some of us may wish.

I can tell y'all this much. Your not ever going to intimadate this poster to the degree or fashion that I'll withdraw from my Green Bay Packer home. You might as well 'piss into the wind as try to go there 'my friends'. Ole woodbuck27 is one determined LOYAL Green Bay PACKER fan. None of you are more LOYAL than I am. Than woodbuck27 is. I'm not like many of you in terms related to personality (maybe?) ; but don't try to take that away from me.

I am Canadian !!! I am a Green Bay PACKER FAN !!!

I've been a Packer fan longer that most of you have lived. I was Packer fan at 13 years of age. I'll be 64 on Dec. 29, 2010. I saw and loved the Packers throughout the entire Lombardi era. I saw the Green Bay Packers win the first two Super Bowls or NFL Championships whe the American and National Conferences combined. I remained a Pacxker fan from then throughout the lean and frustrating decades. I was spoiled by Lombardi as a Packer fan. I want our team to get to only one place.

I promote this as a Packer fan:

To win the Championship and nothing else wash's. Our GM Ted Thompson must deliver just that. An NFL Championship. It's his prime responsibility to every day 'just' focus and deliver that.

GO PACK GO !

[pasquale]

Can we change the title of this thread to "Woodbuck is a man, HE'S 40!!"

Seriously, enough...and I hardly ever post.

[woodbuck27]

It's reported that Randy Moss doesn't fit into a running game as well as NE desires for their future offensive schemes.

(redacted)

So everybody wins in this trade. It would appear that RM may be a perfect fit in Minny.

I quoted only two sentences so as to shorten the response, and I don't think it results in seeing anything out of context, because I believe each statement stands on its own. If I am wrong I apologize.

I think these two statements are contradictory, and are exactly why I am not so certain in the success of this trade for the Vikings. MN should be a run-focused, Peterson-showcasing offense. He is their best weapon. If Moss didn't fit NE's style of offense, how can he fit the Vikings', which should be even more run-focused than NE's? Success of the trade will depend on Moss himself.

As to Belichick's comments, he said only what I would expect him to say whether or not there had been a problem with Moss.

In actuality...Patler, it remains to be seen, but:

Randy Moss, in the absence of Sydney Rice offers 'the Vikings', what they didn't have prior to that trade this season or in the three previous games of their schedule. A talented WR that is, an over the top and sideline deep threat to take the ball long or all the way to the end zone. He offers with Brett Favre a more lethal passing attack in the absence of Sydney Rice.

If Sydney Rice returns and is ready or at full potential the WR pairing of Rice and Moss affords a more potent passing attack. That is the potential any NFL fan must acknowlege as the ultimate 'potential' value of that trade for Randy Moss.

As to his maturity and that side of the debate:

New England ( the Pat's) certainly acknowledged that maturity as a positive in Randy Moss. With him wanting to be at his best to gain a good contract, I predict he 'will be full on trying his best' to be what he wants to and needs to be.

You can never underestimate the value and production of 'any good or talented man' when he's up to task.

I predict that for the remainder of this season,barringinjury. Randy Moss will be a solid Viking contributor. He may be, outstanding.

That is my final position, Patler. If you disagree that's just fine.

GO PACKERS!

[Fritz]

Well, I want the Vikings to blow up. I want them to lose, because they are the Vikings and I'm a Packer fan, and because I root against all let's-go-all-out-and-sign-or-trade-for-every-big-name team. It feeds into many fans' perception that somehow getting big names ensures a championship. And I just don't think that is the case. So I want Moss to suck and Favre to suck and all the Vikings to suck and lose.

Moss is a better receiver than what Minny has out there now. So from a talent perspecitve, the Vikings are better today than they were before the trade. And talent matters.

But we'll see if it all fits together and works out. I sure as hell hope not.