Playcalling Experts

[mraynrand]

I am a former NFL head coach masquerading as a fan.

You must have been Rich Kotite or Wayne Fontes

There are a lot of iggles fans who would say that Rich Kotite was not an NFL head coach.

And Wayne Fontes was a fan masquerading as an NFL head coach.

Yabba Dabba Doo!

[Fritz]

Funniest part about that is that he's been the most successful coach they've had since Joe Schmidt.

[bobblehead]

Re: Playcalling Experts

Apparantly nothing because I haven't said anything about what I think of the playcalling one way or the other. Just that there seem to be a lot of unqualified people making absolute statements. People aren't making "It's my opinion that..." statements; they're making "It's a fact that..." statements without room for discussion.

As for my expertise on that opinion, I read the dictionary and know what the difference between "opinion" and "fact" is.

I think Bobble is being a smartazz but I agree, what are your qualification? Just curious since you brought it up. I usually dont call peeps out on a subject unless I got some ammo but really I aint got shit just my opinion.

I don't have any expertise on playcalling. And I don't think anyone else does either. And that's my point.

and that is my point. If you have no expertise, how would you have any clue if anyone else does or not. How would you have any basis to criticize their stated opinions or facts? You have none, and as such your entire opening post is pure hypocrisy.

[bobblehead]

Re: Playcalling Experts

Apparantly nothing because I haven't said anything about what I think of the playcalling one way or the other. Just that there seem to be a lot of unqualified people making absolute statements. People aren't making "It's my opinion that..." statements; they're making "It's a fact that..." statements without room for discussion.

As for my expertise on that opinion, I read the dictionary and know what the difference between "opinion" and "fact" is.

I think Bobble is being a smartazz but I agree, what are your qualification? Just curious since you brought it up. I usually dont call peeps out on a subject unless I got some ammo but really I aint got shit just my opinion.

I'd simply like to hear more reasoning as to why something's bad playcalling.

As I have explained many times (and I PLAYED OL at college level) when you fail to call running plays the DLine can stop wasting time checking their run queues. They simply pin back the ears and go after the QB like rabid dogs. That in turn puts the OL at a HUGE disadvantage and generally gets your QB HIT!!

Furthermore, run plays wear down a defensive lineman (he is on the defensive) whereas pass plays wear down an offensive lineman (he is on the defensive). The guy doing the reacting is always at a big disadvantage to the guy proacting.

Is it a coincidence that this team has trouble finishing games?? I think not, partly due to playcalling.....and as you requested I have given you a very good explanation (which I have given on this board many times).

[denverYooper]

Re: Playcalling Experts

Apparantly nothing because I haven't said anything about what I think of the playcalling one way or the other. Just that there seem to be a lot of unqualified people making absolute statements. People aren't making "It's my opinion that..." statements; they're making "It's a fact that..." statements without room for discussion.

As for my expertise on that opinion, I read the dictionary and know what the difference between "opinion" and "fact" is.

I think Bobble is being a smartazz but I agree, what are your qualification? Just curious since you brought it up. I usually dont call peeps out on a subject unless I got some ammo but really I aint got shit just my opinion.

I'd simply like to hear more reasoning as to why something's bad playcalling.

As I have explained many times (and I PLAYED OL at college level) when you fail to call running plays the DLine can stop wasting time checking their run queues. They simply pin back the ears and go after the QB like rabid dogs. That in turn puts the OL at a HUGE disadvantage and generally gets your QB HIT!!

Furthermore, run plays wear down a defensive lineman (he is on the defensive) whereas pass plays wear down an offensive lineman (he is on the defensive). The guy doing the reacting is always at a big disadvantage to the guy proacting.

Is it a coincidence that this team has trouble finishing games?? I think not, partly due to playcalling.....and as you requested I have given you a very good explanation (which I have given on this board many times).

Solid.

[Smidgeon]

Re: Playcalling Experts

Apparantly nothing because I haven't said anything about what I think of the playcalling one way or the other. Just that there seem to be a lot of unqualified people making absolute statements. People aren't making "It's my opinion that..." statements; they're making "It's a fact that..." statements without room for discussion.

As for my expertise on that opinion, I read the dictionary and know what the difference between "opinion" and "fact" is.

I think Bobble is being a smartazz but I agree, what are your qualification? Just curious since you brought it up. I usually dont call peeps out on a subject unless I got some ammo but really I aint got shit just my opinion.

I don't have any expertise on playcalling. And I don't think anyone else does either. And that's my point.

and that is my point. If you have no expertise, how would you have any clue if anyone else does or not. How would you have any basis to criticize their stated opinions or facts? You have none, and as such your entire opening post is pure hypocrisy.

hy·poc·ri·sy

–noun, plural -sies.
1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.
3. an act or instance of hypocrisy.

Show me one place where I said I knew anything about playcalling. Just one. Then you can run around spouting accusations.

If you go back to my original post, I was asking who did know about playcalling. I wanted to separate those who talk for the sake of talking from those who knew what they were talking about so I could keep it straight in my head.

But what I do know a thing or two about is logical fallacies. And saying, "It's bad playcalling because it didn't work," is a logical fallacy called "Appeal to Consequences". Just because the consequence is negative doesn't mean the antedecent was the cause. It could be, but it also could not be, a possibility that appears is being ignored.

So going to your second post, you've explained why running is beneficial for the O-line (in general) and passing is beneficial for the D-line (in general). Thank you. That clears up some things for me and makes sense.

But my followup question would be this: if the Packers' tackles are poor at run blocking and good at pass blocking, does the benefit still stand to run the ball if the only place they can successfully run it is down the middle over and over? Wouldn't that lead to the equivalent of the D-line pinning its ears back and attacking the middle of the line?

Also, couple in a second string RB who has only had two 100 yard games in his career and who many have stated dances around too much, and I suppose it could be argued (I'm not saying I am arguing it--I'm just allowing for the possibility) that the benefit to running the ball--while it still may help the O-line--is mitigated enough that it undermines the team's ability to score points. Especially when their only true superstars on the Offense are the QB and WRs (and TE before he was injured). So why is playing to their strengths a bad thing?

[sharpe1027]

Re: Playcalling Experts

hy·poc·ri·sy

–noun, plural -sies.
1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.
3. an act or instance of hypocrisy.

Show me one place where I said I knew anything about playcalling. Just one. Then you can run around spouting accusations.

If you go back to my original post, I was asking who did know about playcalling. I wanted to separate those who talk for the sake of talking from those who knew what they were talking about so I could keep it straight in my head.

Don't take it so personal Smidge. "spouting accusations" is not how I read bobble's post. Much of how posts are interpreted lies with the reader...

The way I understood the hypocrisy was this. If you criticize people for making statements about play calling because they do not have experience with play calling your are putting forth your belief that those that do not have experience do not know what good play calling is or is not. The problem is that you do not have experience. How can you justify your belief, since you cannot possible know what good play calling is or is not?

[MJZiggy]

You guys fight about the weirdest shit.

[Bretsky]

I think Smidgeon is a fine poster but the concept behind this thread blows

We are in a forum to read about each other's views. I know they are opiniions and whether they sound like they are being factual it's still an opinion unless they site factual statistics.

If we were looking for qualifications in posters we'd probably deem at least 95% to be know nothings and I'd have nothing to read.

But a lot of the know nothings in here know plenty enough to respect their viewpoints on playcalling, or personnell decisions. And when some of the know nothings argue about this stuff a lot of people learn things

So keep on criticizing.....Know Nothings

[Tarlam!]

Thanks Bretsky, I will!

[gex]

I think Smidgeon is a fine poster but the concept behind this thread blows

We are in a forum to read about each other's views. I know they are opiniions and whether they sound like they are being factual it's still an opinion unless they site factual statistics.

If we were looking for qualifications in posters we'd probably deem at least 95% to be know nothings and I'd have nothing to read.

But a lot of the know nothings in here know plenty enough to respect their viewpoints on playcalling, or personnell decisions. And when some of the know nothings argue about this stuff a lot of people learn things

So keep on criticizing.....Know Nothings

The best people in their own respected fields will always overlook the most obvious answers to the simpilist solutions..gotta think outside the box....
hell just look at nfl officiating.

[gex]

Re: Playcalling Experts

I've been hearing a lot of complaining about the playcalling around here lately. As such, I'm curious about who really knows anything about playcalling.

List your playcalling experience here. If you've coached in the NFL or with a successful college program, been a coordinator in the NFL or with a successful college program, or befriended someone who was successful at playcalling and learned at the feet of this person, please put it here so I will believe what you say.

Otherwise, I'll know that when you complain about play-calling, I'll just assume you have no idea what you're talking about and are complaining about results (i.e. execution of a play) instead of the play itself.

Thank you.

Was gonna start a different thread after reading this but I'll defer for now and just put it here.
I don't visit any other Packer forums except PR but the almost overbearing support of Packer management is hard to take. We have not won 1 playoff game without BF as our field general and its a good possibility we might not this year again.
Yet it is taboo to criticize team management on this forum...without having your fandom questioned.
Its always been a fans right to bitch about team management. Why is there so much defending a regime that really has not proven anything to us without our HOF QB.

[Tarlam!]

Re: Playcalling Experts

Its always been a fans obligation to bitch about team management.

Fixed!

[channtheman]

Re: Playcalling Experts

I've been hearing a lot of complaining about the playcalling around here lately. As such, I'm curious about who really knows anything about playcalling.

List your playcalling experience here. If you've coached in the NFL or with a successful college program, been a coordinator in the NFL or with a successful college program, or befriended someone who was successful at playcalling and learned at the feet of this person, please put it here so I will believe what you say.

Otherwise, I'll know that when you complain about play-calling, I'll just assume you have no idea what you're talking about and are complaining about results (i.e. execution of a play) instead of the play itself.

Thank you.

Was gonna start a different thread after reading this but I'll defer for now and just put it here.
I don't visit any other Packer forums except PR but the almost overbearing support of Packer management is hard to take. We have not won 1 playoff game without BF as our field general and its a good possibility we might not this year again.
Yet it is taboo to criticize team management on this forum...without having your fandom questioned.
Its always been a fans right to bitch about team management. Why is there so much defending a regime that really has not proven anything to us without our HOF QB.

I think because Favre's an asshole and so it's easy to side with the other side. (Sorry for fucking this thread up in advance)

[mraynrand]

Re: Playcalling Experts

I've been hearing a lot of complaining about the playcalling around here lately. As such, I'm curious about who really knows anything about playcalling.

List your playcalling experience here. If you've coached in the NFL or with a successful college program, been a coordinator in the NFL or with a successful college program, or befriended someone who was successful at playcalling and learned at the feet of this person, please put it here so I will believe what you say.

Otherwise, I'll know that when you complain about play-calling, I'll just assume you have no idea what you're talking about and are complaining about results (i.e. execution of a play) instead of the play itself.

Thank you.

Was gonna start a different thread after reading this but I'll defer for now and just put it here.
I don't visit any other Packer forums except PR but the almost overbearing support of Packer management is hard to take. We have not won 1 playoff game without BF as our field general and its a good possibility we might not this year again.
Yet it is taboo to criticize team management on this forum...without having your fandom questioned.
Its always been a fans right to bitch about team management. Why is there so much defending a regime that really has not proven anything to us without our HOF QB.