Are we gritty enough?

[th87]

Merry Christmas, all!

So Patler and I touched on a concept in the close losses thread that I think is relevant to the subject and has been overlooked somewhat.

I was watching Holmgren soundbytes, and he talked about how the 96 team "wanted it more". A cliche, right? But upon thinking about it, that team had some "ruthless" players on the field, like White, Simmons, Winters, Favre, etc. Guys that would run into a brick wall to win. That extra ruthlessness, I feel, contributed to their success. As Patler said, that extra intimidation results in an edge, which ultimately makes it easier to win. Perennial contenders like the Steelers have "psychos" like Harrison and Polamalu on their team. The Patriots have a cold-blooded Brady and Belichick.

I don't feel like our team has enough of these types of players. Of course, they are immensely talented, but very few seem to have that extra gear to want to pummel and embarrass their opponents. Lots of nice guys. Lots of finesse, pretty guys. None of these things are problems by themselves, but I feel like this team needs a psycho or three to impose their will on opponents. Michael Jordan, for example relished not only winning, but thoroughly demolishing his competition. Someone with that mentality would go a long way.

I feel that this is the main issue in our poor close game record.

[mraynrand]

plenty of gritty guys - just not talented enough is all. Wouldn't mind seeing a guy like Simmons with a nasty streak out there though.

[bobblehead]

I don't buy it on defense for sure. Woodson is tough as nails. Bishop and Bigby both play tough. Hawk stands up guards consistently (but doesn't shed them). Our DL is amongst the biggest and most physical in the league.

On offense we might lean towards finesse, but we aren't exactly pussies. Driver is fearless over the middle. Every RB that gets snaps will stick their nose into a blitzing LB without hesitation. As for the OL....well, its tough to be a "physical" pass blocker. You maul the D in the run game, and get mauled in the pass set. Its just the way it goes. We don't run enough to consistently wear a defense down.

[denverYooper]

Gritty? Rodgers is there. I would argue that Finley is also. After Sunday's performance, I feel Raji might turn out to be one of those guys. Clay when he's healthy.

[Fritz]

The Packers' offense needs to make like a turkey and eat some pebbles. That'll give 'em grit.

[Patler]

Gritty? Rodgers is there. I would argue that Finley is also. After Sunday's performance, I feel Raji might turn out to be one of those guys. Clay when he's healthy.

I don't see Rodgers as gritty (my interpretation of "gritty", anyway), too fragile; and with the two concussions he will simply have to approach things differently the rest of his career, whether he thinks so or not. Part of being "gritty" is a demeanor that I don't think Rodgers has, but that is OK in a QB.

Finley was anything but gritty as a rookie. His blocking was atrocious (he looked afraid) and he would barely reach for the few balls thrown his way. He looked a lot better last year, at least physical enough to last in the league. I think he took another step forward this season, but it was so short it really proved nothing. How he will come back next year is anyone's guess.

Mathews is the epitome of what I understand as "gritty". He likes to destroy people, tackles roughly and never stops.
Bishop, too, likes to hit as hard as he can all the time. I think the defense needed him.
Woodson is for a corner.
Raji is getting there.
Collins goes hot and cold.
Bigby was before all the injuries.
Williams and Jenkins - no; but good players.
Same for Hawk, who is mostly a drag-down type tackler.
Kuhn is as a runner. Always delivers the blow.
Sitton I think is tough, but I never see him destroy anyone with a block
The other lineman I would classify as "technicians."
Driver is as a receiver and tries as a blocker, but isn't as a blocker.
Jennings - not at all, but a good receiver.

All the above per my perception of "gritty"!

[th87]

I agree with Patler's interpretation.

No doubt the guys are tough players, or that they deliver hits - that's not what I'm disputing. It's whether they relish making those hits; whether they look to pummel their opponent. James Harrison and Ray Lewis take a special pleasure in delivering knockouts - they're crazy. Tom Brady has a different type of this - he really, really wants to embarrass the other team. A Jordan-like zeal. Rodgers is different, in that he's more relaxed, I'll work hard and make the right plays, and let's hope for the best. Not a "I MUST obliterate this team at all costs" type. And that's okay for QB; I didn't get that impression from Montana or Young either.

[Fritz]

Rooster Cogburn is gritty. We need him to coach special teams!

[swede]

Rooster Cogburn on Devin Hester: You can spit in his eye, you can make him eat sand out of the road, you can shoot him in the foot and I'll hold him for you - but first we gotta catch him.

[denverYooper]

Rooster Cogburn is gritty. We need him to coach special teams!

See, he was gritty in obvious ways but I wonder if the title "True Grit" referred to him or to Mattie Ross -- or most likely both of them. I feel that she embodied the title with her courageous resolve to see her plans through and so was every bit as gritty in her own way, even if it's not in the "down and dirty" sense that is generally implied by the more literal sense of the word. Especially given the context within which the piece was set, her independence and confidence were less than common.

Which segues nicely to why I included Rodgers in the "gritty" category.

I don't see Rodgers as gritty (my interpretation of "gritty", anyway), too fragile; and with the two concussions he will simply have to approach things differently the rest of his career, whether he thinks so or not. Part of being "gritty" is a demeanor that I don't think Rodgers has, but that is OK in a QB.

My definition of grit was more that of "resolute or courageous". And I think that Rodgers has that as a player, plus the talent to be effective with it. Part of what I consider his "grit" is what got him his second concussion.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't see Rodgers as gritty (my interpretation of "gritty", anyway), too fragile

How the hell do you peg Rodgers as too fragile?

[Bossman641]

I'd argue "gritty" is a term that is lost in today's NFL. When I think gritty I think of players and teams that used to hate one another. With FA and the closeness players share today, I think grittiness is a thing of the past.

There is a reason guys like Harrison and Ray Lewis are considered dinosaurs of the past.

[Patler]

How the hell do you peg Rodgers as too fragile?

He's a cracked egg from here on out, for however long his career lasts.

[RashanGary]

Finley is a bad ass. He was my favorite Packer until Mattews exploded early in the year when he was healthy.

TE's block in tight quarters and catch, so it's not like he's going to string together a highlight reel of big hits, but when he gets a chance, I think he's always looking to take someones head off.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers sets the finesse tone on offense.