James Jones Wants to Start

[ThunderDan]

I have been a big Jones supporter, esp. this past year. I probably want him to stay in Green Bay as much as anyone on this forum. But I disagree on his value. He is simply not worth 3-5 million a year at this point in his career. I want him to stay in Green Bay b/c think he can BECOME a great WR, but he has yet to prove he IS a great WR. All I see is a lot of potential yet to be fulfilled.

You can’t expect to be paid starters money dropping 10 passes with half of them being 80 yard TD's. If he would have dropped 5 passes instead of 10 he probably adds 250 yards and 3 TD's or so to his stats. He would have had a dam good season, but he didn’t.

I actually hated hearing him say "but Driver wants to play until he is 40." SO WHAT! That means nothing really. If JJ out plays Driver and Nelson he will be the starter and he shouldn't expect anything less than having to fight for it. If he can’t beat out a soon to be 37 year old WR, who in IMO has slowed down some, when he is in the prime of his career than he shouldn’t be a starter. A fair contract for him would be to sign a 2 year 4 mil dollar contract and earn the starting spot.

He has a sweet deal in Green Bay. He has a top 5 QB, top ten wr in Jennings, and a top 5 TE in Finely to take pressure off him. If he would just stop dropping passes and play more consistently he would have the easiest number 2 wr position in the whole league. He would be single covered almost every play.

I still want Jones to stay, but if he out prices himself then he just has to go. The team can’t be paying 5 mil a year to every player on the team. If you are going to be paid as one of the best you have to prove it and he has yet to do that for even ONE full year

Excellent post!

[SkinBasket]

Mr. Jones has permission to formally fist himself until he dies. He will then be buried with that horse that killed the gay teacher with it's cock.

[MJZiggy]

I hate public speaking and I admit to being the worst public speaker I know, but I have zero issues in negotiations or with journos or before running cameras.

You are most certainly not the worst public speaker you know. I totally suck at it.

[bobblehead]

I think what he's saying is, "The Packers have a lot of good receivers. It's going to be hard for me be crack the staring lineup here. If I'm not a starter, it might be hard for the Packers to pay me as one. I want to be a Packer but I'm worried they won't value me the way other teams will and I'll be gone"

In not so many words, I think that's what's going on with Jones. He has to take the money. He owes it to himself and his family. The way this is shaping up, it might not be with the Packers. There is a lot of uncertainty for a player like Jones who doesn't know if he's going to be making 2 million or 6 million per year. He's probably anxious, probably wants the Packers to reach out and make him a good offer. He's in a tough spot. He was talking about something very personal and important to him. I think he did pretty well.

Close to nailing it JH. I know those of us not making a million a year don't like the "take care of my family" line, but think this way. As a #3 in GB he can rake 2 million a year. As a #2 somewhere its more like 4 million a year. We aren't talking about a guy who is the #1 and is giving the hometeam discount from 9 million down to 7.5 million. For JJ, if he can double up from 2 to 4 million, its a monster difference (after taxes especially). You can't expect a guy to love playing for the Packers THAT much...its just not realistic. I will wait to see how this plays out.

[bobblehead]

I actually hated hearing him say "but Driver wants to play until he is 40." SO WHAT! That means nothing really. If JJ out plays Driver and Nelson he will be the starter and he shouldn't expect anything less than having to fight for it. If he can’t beat out a soon to be 37 year old WR, who in IMO has slowed down some, when he is in the prime of his career than he shouldn’t be a starter. A fair contract for him would be to sign a 2 year 4 mil dollar contract and earn the starting spot.

Maybe that was a subtle shot? He had a great game when he started for driver. Better than any game driver had I think. Perhaps he thinks the coaching staff isn't giving him a fair shot at beating out a veteran....sort of like Bishop felt that way. Sort of like I feel about players at times. I simply DO NOT believe coaches have an open mind about players most of the time. They have a preconceived notion and stick with it unless BLOWN away by the 2nd guy.

[rbaloha1]

JJ was always confident -- a good receiver trait.

Does not deserve starter's pay or starting job. Long live DD!

[Tarlam!]

I'm impressed Tarlam. You are the only person I have ever known

I think I know you??? What the hell gave you that idea?(...) You are the only one, and that is what makes me suspect.

assuming that you are perfect when prepared (don't take this personally, you are the one who has claimed this status)

So, twist all you want, but you used the term "I have ever known". That's what the hell gave me that idea. Frankly, I don't give a toss what makes you suspect. You've never read here that I profess to know anything about football and I am probably the most willing of any of us posters to admit on here my mistakes.

Tell me again where I said I was perfect or claimed this status? What I said was I have no regrets. Tell me again where I criticised Jones, because that's what this thread is about.

And, no Zig, I hate standing on stage more than anything. I am the worst public speaker. I'm Sparticus!

[Pugger]

This doesn't seem to be much of a story. You can tell this is the offseason, we need the draft to commence, soon.

[Patler]

I'm impressed Tarlam. You are the only person I have ever known

So, twist all you want, but you used the term "I have ever known". That's what the hell gave me that idea. Frankly, I don't give a toss what makes you suspect. You've never read here that I profess to know anything about football and I am probably the most willing of any of us posters to admit on here my mistakes.

Ah come on. You know better than to snip a quote such that you change the meaning like that. My full quote was:

I'm impressed Tarlam. You are the only person I have ever known who claims to have never misspoken in public, or who never regretted the words they have chosen. Even the most accomplished public speakers I have known all had moments they regretted. I suspect you are not being honest with yourself.

In case you misunderstand, let me restate. It's not intended to imply knowing you personally, its knowing your claim of never having regretted what you said:

I assured you my preparation would have been such that I feel confident my answer would have come out like I wanted. As you, I have held position where I've a lead negotiator, I've had press mikes in my face, unlike you, I have never said I wish I hadn't said that". At worst, I've said, I shouldn't have stayed up all night drinking or, geez, I wish I'd prepared better.

I have known many, many public speakers who prepare endlessly, and still make mistakes and have regrets for what they say in an extemporaneous setting. Apparently you do not suffer from that failing. I'm sure it serves you well.

I'm done. Have the last word if you wish. No hard feelings. Let's meet again at a football topic!

[Tarlam!]

I hardly think Jones was in an extemporaneous setting; you seem to. The line of questioning was as certain as an Amen in church on Sundays. His agent should have coached him up. I didn't find any offense at all in what he said. I merely took up your challenge.

No hard feelings.

[Smeefers]

I see Jones value in the 3.5-4.5 MIL per year range; other teams IMO will value him on the higher end of that or even higher.

If you want to start, then walk the walk Mr Jones. He needs to earn that

Jennings Rec:76 Yards:1265 TD:12
Driver Rec:51 Yards:565 TD:4
Jones Rec:50 Yards:679 TD:5
Nelson Rec:45 Yards:582 TD:2

Looking at it, I'd say Jones is walking the walk. Despite being the #3, he's getting startling more yards. If he's on our team next year, I think he should get the starting job. He's playing at a higher level than any of the other WR's (besides Jennings). Yes, he's had some high profile drops, but people like to forget about all the awesome stuff he does. Only guy on our team to seems to be able to scoop the ball at his ankles. He also makes some of the most athletic catches on the team.

I don't think the problem Jones is having is his skill level or his 4 drops this year or his attitude. His problem is that he's surrounded by guys who can catch. Finley, Jennings, Jones, Driver, Nelson. Those are five guys who can catch the ball and make something happen. When you are, at best, the third best reciver on the team and at worst the 5th, your negotiating power is gone, even if you have the ability to start and get 60+ catches a year on any number of NFL teams. He knows the number of catches he's going to get is not going to increase, it's going to dwindle. Lets say Jones starts next year. Does he get 50 Catches? Doubtfull. Finely will be back, getting 50-60-70 catches. There's just not enough ball to go around.

[Tarlam!]

If you do the numbers, Smeefers, he averages 1/2 yard per reception more than Nelson. They both average more than DD. But that's a superficial way of analysing it, IMO.

It would be interesting to compare how often the respective numbers were called, how many drops were made by each and who the primary receiver was supposed to be on each pass play called . Obviously, we fans won't ever get those numbers (except the drops) to really be able to grade them.

As far as # of TDs as a stat, one could break that down to YAC TD, Big Play TD etc etc.

Of course we can assess what we see happening on TV, but we can't know the whole story, which I will trust TT.

[Bretsky]

Driver missed several games due to injury, and Jones "dropped" several opportunities to make the case for himself as a starter

[pbmax]

Maybe that was a subtle shot? He had a great game when he started for driver. Better than any game driver had I think. Perhaps he thinks the coaching staff isn't giving him a fair shot at beating out a veteran....sort of like Bishop felt that way. Sort of like I feel about players at times. I simply DO NOT believe coaches have an open mind about players most of the time. They have a preconceived notion and stick with it unless BLOWN away by the 2nd guy.

If true, then how do you explain Nelson getting more reps and more use as the season wore on? In this case I agree with Silverstein, that Jones had too many mediocre efforts surrounding his better game(s), and surrendered the 3 WR to Nelson by the end of the year. For a while, I thought Rodgers was propping him up by continuing to throw to him on the outside. I didn't share Rodgers trust.

By the playoffs, Nelson was back to being a true 3rd option, culminated by his Super Bowl effort. And this is despite Nelson having a poor year with more drops than ever before. But I think Jones dropped his way to number 4, more than Driver supplanted him as #2.

He blew a big chance this year. Now I am not completely sold on Nelson. Jones has had big games too, and just because it was the Super Bowl doesn't guarantee him future success. But except for getting open deep, Jones has not improved much since his rookie campaign and he displays the same flaws he had then.

I have no problem with his comments unless they indicate that Jones thinks he has arrived. Because he hasn't arrived as a starter yet, there are too many areas that need improvement.

[Smeefers]

He blew a big chance this year. Now I am not completely sold on Nelson. Jones has had big games too, and just because it was the Super Bowl doesn't guarantee him future success. But except for getting open deep, Jones has not improved much since his rookie campaign and he displays the same flaws he had then.

Agreed. Jones hasn't really improved on his flaws. Over the course of his career he's bumbled a lot of opportunities and he's actually blown games. Man, I'm a flag waving in the wind with this guy, aren't I?

And of course you're right Tar, the comparison I put up is not a complete examination. I figured it'd help to put a snapshot of our WR's year up there. People have been beatin on Jones like he owes them money and I think some of it is undeserved. I suppose the best way I can put it is like this: I trust Nelson more, I think he shined in the biggest game and is still getting better. That said, I think Jones is more talented, but less dependable. He's streaky. If he was given more opportunities, I think he would perform better, but that's never going to happen here with the wealth of talent we have.