Grooming Rodgers Paved the Way

[Tarlam!]

I've been sayin' it all along. If Rodgers had gone to the Niners, I doubt he woulda fared any better than Alex Smith. Some of you, notabley Harv and JH vehemently disagree.

Well, think what you may about Kiper Jr., but he agrees with me:

The lockout itself could also make it difficult for a rookie to thrive this season, given the strong possibility of lost practice time and conversations with coaches, and ESPN analyst Mel Kiper Jr. said he doesn't see any of this year's quarterbacks as ready to contribute right away.

Green Bay carefully groomed Aaron Rodgers before Favre's noncommittal approach to his playing status prompted the Packers to give Rodgers the job in 2008. Now, they're the reigning champs.

"That's the way you should develop a quarterback," Kiper said. "What would have happened if he had gone to the Redskins? I don't think he'd have been Aaron Rodgers right now. He probably would have been kicked to the curb. But he developed. He changed his whole delivery, his whole mechanics of throwing the football. Now he's a potential Hall of Famer and has a Super Bowl ring."

I'm sure Kiper Jr. and I are not alone with our opinion.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81f68a9a/article/postfavre-vikings-in-search-of-next-franchise-signalcaller

The story is about the Vikings struggles at QB going forward.

[Tarlam!]

In the interest of being balanced, the quote comes from the same article:

Green Bay's Rodgers model is ideal, but St. Louis took Bradford first last year and improved right along with the rookie. Ryan led Atlanta to the playoffs in 2008 as a first-time starter, as did Joe Flacco with Baltimore that year and Mark Sanchez for the New York Jets the following season.

Still, I vividly remember Rodgers crashing and burning in his first TC and ensuing pre-season. He was better in year 2, but still not ideal. He became solid in his 3rd season only. Personally, I put that down to taking on the coaching and maturing of both body and mind.

[channtheman]

Rodgers has always fought for everything he has had. From High School all the way to now in the pros he was underrated or "not good enough." I think he could have gone anywhere and through his own desire to prove everyone wrong would be great. Did sitting help him? Absolutely. Did it make him? No.

[Tarlam!]

I think he could have gone anywhere and through his own desire to prove everyone wrong would be great. Did sitting help him? Absolutely. Did it make him? No.

So, what you're saying is, Rodgers would have succeeded where Alex Smith and Jason Campbell failed? And it's your suggestion that he would have done this because of a chip on his shoulder? Well, that chip would not have been there if he were picked instead of Smith, right?

Certainly it would have been in Washington. But remember, that was Joe Gibbs' 2nd stint with the 'skins and he was nowhere near the HOF coach that won 3 SB in 10 years starting nearly a quarter of a century earlier. And let's not forget the circus tent environment that Dan Snyder facilitates. I have serious doubts that whole scenario would have been conducive to success for Rodgers coming out.

I'm delighted we'll never know for sure.

Too bad I didn't think to make this thread into a poll.

[swede]

Green Bay carefully groomed Aaron Rodgers before Favre's noncommittal approach to his playing status prompted the Packers to give Rodgers the job in 2008.

Huh...I had understood that Rodgers was given the job because Favre QUIT. It's as if the media plays telephone; their distortions amplify until three years later the one sentence summary is simply wrong.


All the rest of it was interesting, Tar. I think Aaron might have done better than Alex over time in SF, but there is no doubt in my mind that he landed in the right spot to allowing his wounded pride to slowly prepare for the time to exact revenge.

Now he can play angry until Colin Cowturd puts AR on his ten best active NFL quarterbacks list.

[Little Whiskey]

The lockout itself could also make it difficult for a rookie to thrive this season, given the strong possibility of lost practice time and conversations with coaches, and ESPN analyst Mel Kiper Jr.

I didn't realize Mel Kiper was that important to the NFL!

[Tarlam!]

I didn't realize Mel Kiper was that important to the NFL!

He's about as important as you and I, LW, but he earns his living with it. Apart from that, he's guessing 99% of the time, too.

[Scott Campbell]

There are the exceptions like Marino that just show up with enough talent to play well in the NFL. But for the most part I think NFL QB's are developed. And what other credentials did McCarthy have when he got hired out of obscurity other than as QB developer?

[RashanGary]

Marino played an instinctive, fling it around game. He'd see one on one and rifle one in there and he had guys who could catch. Rodgers is more of a tactician. He likes to throw to the open guy and he'll use his legs to buy extra time if he has to. It took him a little longer to get his game down, but I think his game is so advanced mentally that he has to.


McCarthy said at one point either last year or maybe even the year before, that Rodgers was running the most quarterback intensive game plans he's ever installed. So Rodgers last year was composing the offense to greater detail than Brett Favre ever did, and Favre played 20 years.

I think the amount of responsibility Rodgers has at the line is greatly undersold among Packer fans. He's in the Peyton Manning/Tom Brady class of field general.

[channtheman]

So, what you're saying is, Rodgers would have succeeded where Alex Smith and Jason Campbell failed? And it's your suggestion that he would have done this because of a chip on his shoulder? Well, that chip would not have been there if he were picked instead of Smith, right?

Certainly it would have been in Washington. But remember, that was Joe Gibbs' 2nd stint with the 'skins and he was nowhere near the HOF coach that won 3 SB in 10 years starting nearly a quarter of a century earlier. And let's not forget the circus tent environment that Dan Snyder facilitates. I have serious doubts that whole scenario would have been conducive to success for Rodgers coming out.

I'm delighted we'll never know for sure.

Too bad I didn't think to make this thread into a poll.

Had he been picked number 1, I don't think that would have wiped away all he had to prove in High School and College. I think he would have set out to prove that he was worthy of a number 1 pick in that instance. Thank goodness we can only speculate and what we do know that Rodgers is a top 5 QB in the league.

[Tarlam!]

I think the amount of responsibility Rodgers has at the line is greatly undersold among Packer fans. He's in the Peyton Manning/Tom Brady class of field general.

Really? That was maybe true in the beginning, but the writing was on the wall the season before last at the latest for me. I remember a lot of critique going M3's way as a HC, but not as a QB developer. I doubt that fans today don't see him as 3rd best QB in the league at worst.

Obviously he's made out of different stuff than, say Leinert, Smith, Campbell, Young and Russell. I think he's more resilient mentally and, barring injury, he might have eventually got it together. But he took a lot of sacks early - 3 against the 'boys. He broke a foot against the Pats, 'cause someone stepped on it.

In his first couple of seasons, his release was "awkward", he was somewhat big headed, he wasn't very strong physically and he was slow at reading where the bandit was coming from. His reluctance to throw it away and hold onto the ball in his 1st starting year nearly got him decapitated. Imagine him playing with those traits 3 years earlier. I doubt he would have survived.

[Tarlam!]

Thank goodness we can only speculate and what we do know that Rodgers is a top 5 QB in the league.

[RashanGary]

I've heard it said Rodgers is different than Brady and Manning who are more field general types and call the game at the line types.

I disagree. I think AR is the field general/call the game at the line type, if you believe Mike McCarthy anyway.


Rodgers is more than a big arm and mobile legs. He imposes his will and attacks weaknesses the same way Brady, Manning and Brees do.

There are a bunch of people here who say that. There are some who don't.

Manning and Brady are in their mid 30's. Brees is over 30. Rodgers might be the best QB in teh game, not the 3rd best. Bring back Joe Montana and just because he's done it longer, doesn't mean he's better today. Today, arm, legs, head. . . AR might be the best in the game.

[channtheman]

Really? That was maybe true in the beginning, but the writing was on the wall the season before last at the latest for me. I remember a lot of critique going M3's way as a HC, but not as a QB developer. I doubt that fans today don't see him as 3rd best QB in the league at worst.

Obviously he's made out of different stuff than, say Leinert, Smith, Campbell, Young and Russell. I think he's more resilient mentally and, barring injury, he might have eventually got it together. But he took a lot of sacks early - 3 against the 'boys. He broke a foot against the Pats, 'cause someone stepped on it.

In his first couple of seasons, his release was "awkward", he was somewhat big headed, he wasn't very strong physically and he was slow at reading where the bandit was coming from. His reluctance to throw it away and hold onto the ball in his 1st starting year nearly got him decapitated. Imagine him playing with those traits 3 years earlier. I doubt he would have survived.

This is actually a pretty good point. I think it's been mentioned on here before as well. Rodgers might have broken down physically if he had been forced to start earlier in his career.

[Patler]

I really wonder how direct the correlation is between career failure/success and starting/sitting as a rookie. Those who advocate the conservative approach to QB development point to the failures who started as rookies, and those like Rodgers who sit the bench a few years, then succeed dramatically. They never consider the very many who play a lot as rookies and succeed, or those who sit the bench as rookies and still fail. The simple fact is a lot of QBs picked high in the draft fail, regardless; and some succeed, regardless.

Just off the top of my head, the following all played a lot as rookies and did/are doing quite well:

Elway
Marino
Aikman
Kelly
P. Manning
Roethlisberger
Flacco
Sanchez
Ryan
Bradford
Eli Manning (started about half the year)
Freeman (seems to be surviving)
McNabb (played a fair amount, started quite a few)
Bledsoe
Cutler (started since the last part of his rookie year)
Collins (not a great QB, but survived starting as a rookie)



First round draft picks who didn't play much early and still failed or are failing:
Quinn
Losman
Gossman (started only a few games his first 3 seasons)
Maddox
Druckenmiller
McQwire
Marinovich
Ware

For some, early failure might destroy their confidence.
For others, early failure can strengthen their resolve and preparation. The fear of failure can push them.

In the end, who knows which quarterbacks might have succeeded with more gradual exposure and which would have succeeded if thrown into the fire right away? It's just a guess. I suspect it depends on each QB's mental make-up more than anything.