Grooming Rodgers Paved the Way

[Patler]

In his first couple of seasons, his release was "awkward", he was somewhat big headed, he wasn't very strong physically and he was slow at reading where the bandit was coming from. His reluctance to throw it away and hold onto the ball in his 1st starting year nearly got him decapitated. Imagine him playing with those traits 3 years earlier. I doubt he would have survived.

The real question is, if he had started earlier in his carer, how quickly would he have accelerated his learning curve and changed those traits?

[Tarlam!]

The real question is, if he had started earlier in his carer, how quickly would he have accelerated his learning curve and changed those traits?

I haven't read anywhere that he's a slow leaner. Yet, it took him long enough. I believe there is one stat that he doesn't want to collect a lot of: INTs. Maybe watching #4 for so long molded him that way and caused him to play that way early. Dunno.

[Brandon494]

Mel Kiper agreeing with you pretty much just proves that your wrong

Let's not forget also that Rodgers was a 49ers fan growing up so there is no doubt in my mind he would have put in the same amount of work that he has with the Packers.

[Tarlam!]

Let's not forget also that Rodgers was a 49ers fan growing up so there is no doubt in my mind he would have put in the same amount of work that he has with the Packers.

See, people are getting me wrong; I am jn no way suggesting Rodgers wouldn't have been hungry for success, blue collar hard working, film junkie, coachable and smart.

[mraynrand]

I think McCarthy working with Rodgers made a huge difference. Thus the likely irony that had SF taken Rodgers, McCarthy would have been his guru. Given that Rodgers was not ready to play as a rookie, it's almost certain that SF would not have turned around sufficiently to prevent McCarthy from leaving to take the GB job (would ANYTHING have prevented McCarthy from leaving for the GB job?), so McCarthy would have ended up in GB with Favre and maybe some other backup QB, and Rodgers would be in SF, still trying to replace his Tedford form with something workable, and going through the SF coaching roulette.

Although I don't think Rodgers was quite ready before 2008, and he still had a lot of growing to do in 2008, some - like Cleft Crusty - thought Rodgers should have taken over after the Dallas game in 2007.

[Patler]

I haven't read anywhere that he's a slow leaner. Yet, it took him long enough. I believe there is one stat that he doesn't want to collect a lot of: INTs. Maybe watching #4 for so long molded him that way and caused him to play that way early. Dunno.

My point was that changing during practice is sometimes slower than changing out of necessity while playing. If he changed a lot from year 1 as the starter to year 2 as the starter, did it matter that it was his fourth year overall to his fifth year overall, or might it have occurred from his second year in the league to his third year in the league just as well? Might not his learning from his first three years sitting the bench been accelerated to his first year as a starter, even if it was his rookie year? If he had sat just one year, might his second year as the starter been the same as it was after sitting for three seasons?

I don't think any of us can answer those questions, nor can Kiper or anyone else.

In my opinion, too many QBs have been successful after playing a lot as rookies to argue that there is a significant correlation between failed careers and starting as a rookie.

[bobblehead]

I've been sayin' it all along. If Rodgers had gone to the Niners, I doubt he woulda fared any better than Alex Smith. Some of you, notabley Harv and JH vehemently disagree.

Well, think what you may about Kiper Jr., but he agrees with me:



I'm sure Kiper Jr. and I are not alone with our opinion.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81f68a9a/article/postfavre-vikings-in-search-of-next-franchise-signalcaller

The story is about the Vikings struggles at QB going forward.

Ok, first, AR didn't "change his whole delivery, his whole mechanics of throwing the football". He changed his cradle and that was about it. His release point never moved. Second, I think the character of the individual is unquestionable and I think he would have developed no matter what, but having MM be his coach helped a ton....Smith had MM as well, and never developed (true, for only one season though). I think the MM factor is proven by Aaron Brooks having like ONE good season ever, and the development of Matt Flynn. I think Rodgers has proven his ability by succeeding at every level after working hard at it, with 2 completely different QB coaches in Tedford and MM as well.

Third, I think AR and BF have one thing in common (due to coaching probably). They both analyze a D and decide what is most likely to be the right place for the ball before its ever snapped. The biggest difference is that if it doesn't happen that way, BF throws it late over the middle and AR either scrambles or gets rid of it (something BF did early too). Lets see what happens if AR loses his mobility....will he start chucking it late over the middle (god I hope not).

Finally, I don't care why he is successful, I think any QB is going to struggle early if forced into the lineup so I advocate sitting them a year regardless if it helps or hurts development just because it reduces the beating they take.

[HarveyWallbangers]

So, what you're saying is, Rodgers would have succeeded where Alex Smith and Jason Campbell failed?

Yes. I think Rodgers has way more talent and desire those two and most others. I think the scouts missed the boat. They do that sometimes. Otherwise, Bart Starr wouldn't have been a 15th round draft pick and Brett Favre wouldn't have been a second round pick. The things that are tough to scout (accuracy, toughness, leadership, character, confidence, football smarts, instincts, mental fortitude), Rodgers has them in spades. There have been plenty of QBs who have been put in the position that Smith and Campbell were put into and succeeded. There have been plenty of QBs who have been put in the position that Rodgers was put into and failed.

I also don't see in the quote where Kiper says that Alex Smith would be as successful as Rodgers if he'd gone to Green Bay or Rodgers would have failed had he gone to San Francisco. I don't think anybody feels like the way Rodgers was developed isn't ideal, but that's far from saying that Rodgers would have failed if he'd gone elsewhere or that Smith would have succeeded if he had gone to Green Bay. The fact that Smith wasn't successful last year with Frank Gore at RB, Vernon Davis at TE, Michael Crabtree at WR, and a load of high draft picks on the OL tells me that he only has himself to blame. Who knows though. Some guys are late bloomers. Maybe he comes on next year or maybe he goes elsewhere (less pressure) and succeeds. He'll get more chances.

[Lurker64]

I think the truth is that every incoming quarterback would be well-served by sitting and learning the NFL game for a little while, but that's not to say that all incoming quarterbacks will fail if thrown into the fire immediately. The guys who succeed probably succeed due to some combination of physical gifts, mental toughness, and drive to excel that would come through in either situation.

I just think a guy's cause is aided significantly by being able to sit. The danger is in starting a guy immediately is that a team who is under significant pressure from an impatient owner or fanbase can give up on a guy too quickly... but bad management decisions will hurt a team in any number of ways. The unavoidable danger of starting a guy immediately is that a lot of hot QB prospects come into the league being chronically immature and that ultimately ends their career. Who could say what might become of some historic QB busts were they granted humility by sitting for a couple of years.

[Tarlam!]

Just wanting it badly and having talent isn't all there is to it. If Rodgers had taken the punishment in his rookie year he'd have had a career start like the QB in Detroit. Stafford has talent and I bet he wants it, but he keeps getting broken. He may yet pan out.

I say that because Detroit finally has some decent management and they're improving. That's a far cry from what Rodgers would have faced in SFR or WAS. Rodgers was puny coming into the league. Thankfully he had 3 off seasons to mature, especially physically, before he got sacked 50 plus times.

[Deputy Nutz]

A couple of things fell into place for Rodgers because coming out he didn't have any tangibles that were considered outstanding. He had an average arm, limited mobility, and average pocket awarness. He played in a short drop system and had goofy mechanics.

He came to Green Bay and wasn't greeted with a lot of fan fair, Favre dominated the headlines and on the field. Rodgers wasn't going to see the field as long as Favre was upright or retired. Favre never missed a start in Green Bay, so it was pretty reasonable to figure that Rodgers never had the pressure to learn a game plan to start on Sundays. Rodgers was able to observe and absorb everything in his first 4 years in Green Bay.

Next he got a coach in McCarthy that knows how to coach QBs, Sherman hadn't a clue.

Rodger displayed an unbelievable work ethic that was never mentioned during or around the draft. Not saying he didn't have one, but he far exceeded expectations. His arm got stronger, he got faster and more mobile, and he got stronger and bigger. He studied his brains out.

He came in replacing a legend, but it wasn't as if expectations were through the roof for him, infact everyone hoped he would just have to be a game manager his first couple of years as a starter, instead he became a field general.

Rodgers wasn't ready to start his rookie year, heck he probably wasn't ready to start his 2nd season either. If he would have gone to San Fran he would have crashed and burned his first few years because they had nothing around him, and he wasn't physically ready to play in the NFL. Now he might have improved each year and at this point he could still be where he is at today as a player, but it didn't work out that way, he fell into a franchise that was perfect fit for him.

[Bossman641]

A couple of things fell into place for Rodgers because coming out he didn't have any tangibles that were considered outstanding. He had an average arm, limited mobility, and average pocket awarness. He played in a short drop system and had goofy mechanics.

He came to Green Bay and wasn't greeted with a lot of fan fair, Favre dominated the headlines and on the field. Rodgers wasn't going to see the field as long as Favre was upright or retired. Favre never missed a start in Green Bay, so it was pretty reasonable to figure that Rodgers never had the pressure to learn a game plan to start on Sundays. Rodgers was able to observe and absorb everything in his first 4 years in Green Bay.

Next he got a coach in McCarthy that knows how to coach QBs, Sherman hadn't a clue.

Rodger displayed an unbelievable work ethic that was never mentioned during or around the draft. Not saying he didn't have one, but he far exceeded expectations. His arm got stronger, he got faster and more mobile, and he got stronger and bigger. He studied his brains out.

He came in replacing a legend, but it wasn't as if expectations were through the roof for him, infact everyone hoped he would just have to be a game manager his first couple of years as a starter, instead he became a field general.

Rodgers wasn't ready to start his rookie year, heck he probably wasn't ready to start his 2nd season either. If he would have gone to San Fran he would have crashed and burned his first few years because they had nothing around him, and he wasn't physically ready to play in the NFL. Now he might have improved each year and at this point he could still be where he is at today as a player, but it didn't work out that way, he fell into a franchise that was perfect fit for him.

Agree with all your points except rodgers not having high expectations. After the year the packers and favre specifically had in 07 there was a ton of heat on rodgers.

[Scott Campbell]

My point was that changing during practice is sometimes slower than changing out of necessity while playing. If he changed a lot from year 1 as the starter to year 2 as the starter, did it matter that it was his fourth year overall to his fifth year overall, or might it have occurred from his second year in the league to his third year in the league just as well? Might not his learning from his first three years sitting the bench been accelerated to his first year as a starter, even if it was his rookie year? If he had sat just one year, might his second year as the starter been the same as it was after sitting for three seasons?

I don't think any of us can answer those questions, nor can Kiper or anyone else.

In my opinion, too many QBs have been successful after playing a lot as rookies to argue that there is a significant correlation between failed careers and starting as a rookie.

I've listened to accounts of his handling of the scout team, and think it may have helped his development. Guys thrown in as day 1 starters miss out on that.

[King Friday]

Rodgers >> Smith

That said, Rodgers wouldn't have won a title by now in SF. Success in the NFL does have a factor of luck in it...based on how you fit into your team's system and the talent of the players around you. Rodgers has elite talent and got lucky to be placed in a system where he has mostly everything he needs, coaching included. The same is true for Montana, Aikman, Favre, Manning, etc. They all have great talent, but none could have overcome playing in Oakland for the bulk of their careers to reach the heights they did elsewhere.

[RashanGary]

Agree with all your points except rodgers not having high expectations. After the year the packers and favre specifically had in 07 there was a ton of heat on rodgers.

I'm with you here. That was a great summary, with but one thing to add.

Aaron Rodgers was chosen over Brett Favre and people expected him to play like it. Rodgers overcame it so fast, it almost seems like it wasn't there, but after his first year, JS was writing about how he wasn't a winner, but rather a stat collector. I think Ron Wolf even had some remarks about it.

Even after his playoff loss where he threw for 450 yards and 4TD's, he was called not clutch by the JS.

2 years later he's champ and their chumps, but there was a time where the world was expected of Aaron Rodgers and that was before he even started his first game as a Packer.

Aaron took the final step into elite, now being talked about as the best QB in the game today. Brady and Manning are 35. Rodgers is the heir to the throne and reigning champ. He did it carrying the offense on his shoulders.

The Packers right now have true greatness at QB and all over their roster. Expect big things.