Rate the 2008 draft

[Bretsky]

If Finley stays on the field IMO he is undoubtedly one of the top 5 TE's in football
Immense talent and very hard to replace that talent. Not one TE in college had that talent IMO.

Jordy Nelson is a fine player; IMO he's starter quality right now. But you can replace a #2 WR.

[mraynrand]

Just because they won the SB without him doesn't mean he still isn't a top 5 talent at TE.

You're exactly right. He could be the best TE in the history of the world. He could be the best at catching any object that mankind has even known. Hde could be a genius beyond Einstein or even Steven Hawking. He may have excrement that tastes like blueberry waffles. Still, the Packers won the Superbowl without him. He's expendable.

[pbmax]

You're exactly right. He could be the best TE in the history of the world. He could be the best at catching any object that mankind has even known. Hde could be a genius beyond Einstein or even Steven Hawking. He may have excrement that tastes like blueberry waffles. Still, the Packers won the Superbowl without him. He's expendable.

I know what you are getting at, but expendable is not the right description. He isn't a necessity if the team has four high functioning WRs and the Number 2 defense in the league. But since injury, age or luck can make those an impossibility at any moment, he is not expendable. You keep a talent like him until its patently clear he will never get back on the field.

The Packer offense underperformed in 2010 compared to 2009 and while late leads and better defense explain some of it, there were plenty of examples of uninspired performance and output. The Packers aren't good enough to make him expendable yet.

[get louder at lambeau]

Finley, had he been available rather than Nelson, would have been the 1st or 2nd target.

Nelson did come through at a crucial time, but not in such a way that Finley (or even Jones) couldn't surpass if they were the fourth most feared option on the Packer offense.

There are good and bad things to what number receiver you are in the pecking order. For whatever lack of respect you get from the defense due to being lower on the totem pole, you will also get less looks from the quarterback. Part of Finley's success is due to mismatches, often being covered by LBs who often can't cover for shit, so that kinda balances out the part where Jordy is taking advantage of nickel and dime corners.

The only thing we can measure anywhere near objectively is actual production. Nelson's 3 game postseason numbers are comparable to, or better than, any three game stretch Finley has ever had, and Nelson did it when it mattered most- the playoffs and the Super Bowl. It's just plain weird how little attention Nelson is getting from fans after that run. I'd be pretty surprised if he isn't our #2 next year, at least production-wise, if not in title.

[Pugger]

There are good and bad things to what number receiver you are in the pecking order. For whatever lack of respect you get from the defense due to being lower on the totem pole, you will also get less looks from the quarterback. Part of Finley's success is due to mismatches, often being covered by LBs who often can't cover for shit, so that kinda balances out the part where Jordy is taking advantage of nickel and dime corners.

The only thing we can measure anywhere near objectively is actual production. Nelson's 3 game postseason numbers are comparable to, or better than, any three game stretch Finley has ever had, and Nelson did it when it mattered most- the playoffs and the Super Bowl. It's just plain weird how little attention Nelson is getting from fans after that run. I'd be pretty surprised if he isn't our #2 next year, at least production-wise, if not in title.

He might not be getting the love because of the drops in the SB. But even with those he did have a great game that day!

[get louder at lambeau]

For comparison purposes-

Jordy Nelson in Super Bowl XLV-
9 catches, 140 yards, and a TD.

Finley's best NFL game ever vs. AZ in the playoffs after the 2009 season-
6 catches 159 yards, 0 TDs

Max McGee's legendary hungover performance in Super Bowl I-
7 catches, 138 yards, 2 TDs

Antonio Freeman in SB XXXI (best receiving performance in SB XXI)-
3 catches, 105 yards, 1 TD

Just thought of another good comparison-

Terrell Owens coming back super-humanly fast from surgery to play in Super Bowl XXIX-
9 catches, 122 yards, 0 TDs

[pbmax]

... you will also get less looks from the quarterback.

... Part of Finley's success is due to mismatches, often being covered by LBs who often can't cover for shit

... The only thing we can measure anywhere near objectively is actual production. Nelson's 3 game postseason numbers are comparable to, or better than, any three game stretch Finley has ever had, and Nelson did it when it mattered most- the playoffs and the Super Bowl.

... It's just plain weird how little attention Nelson is getting from fans after that run. I'd be pretty surprised if he isn't our #2 next year, at least production-wise, if not in title.

Unless of course you are in the Packer's offense which loves to feed the ball to the mismatch, even if the mismatch is the 3rd of 4th receiver or the 2nd TE.

Your second statement makes no sense. I don't care if Finley creates mismatches or coats his jersey with hallucinogens (in his case, he is being covered by the best coverage option teams have at LB and S, plus the occasional CB). He gets the job done as the primary target. Indeed, in two of his best games, he seemed like the only reliable target.

And while production does generate numbers you can study objectively, the numbers still do not tell you all you need to know. Or with his 3 game stretch, Nelson would be a shoe in for All Pro status with Timmy Smith, Scott Mitchell, Ickey Woods and Cledtius Hunt.

Nelson has done OK for the 3rd or 4th receiver and had a great post-season. But he has yet to prove he can be a consistent #2 receiver. Finley can be a #1 TE. If he can stay healthy.

[King Friday]

Finley deserves more than a 6, how is he not a very good starter? It amazes me the lack of respect this guy's talent is getting on this board. Oh well I'll enjoy bumping this thread next season....thats if there is a next season :/

It isn't about talent. I clearly stated that he is a "tremendous talent". What part of that comment do you not understand?

The grades are about what the players have actually DONE ON THE FIELD to this point. Finley has not accomplished that much. It's not really his fault, but injuries still keep you off the field and the importance of a guy who is regularly available is key.

If the guy can stay healthy and post a 75+ catch season, then he's suddenly up to a grade of 8-9. However, I can't give that to him simply because of talent...production is all that matters in the NFL. To this point, Nelson has been more productive than Finley and was a key factor in the team's drive to a Super Bowl title.

Bottom line, to this point, REGARDLESS OF TALENT, Nelson has provided more impact on the field in his career for the Packers than Finley has. That is indisputable and that is what I'm grading on.

[King Friday]

Nelson did come through at a crucial time, but not in such a way that Finley (or even Jones) couldn't surpass if they were the fourth most feared option on the Packer offense.

Sorry Max, but I have to disagree on Jones. The guy DID have chances this year to be an impact player in the playoffs, but dropped those chances when they hit him right between the numbers. Combine that with his fumble against the Bears earlier in the year and I just can't give Jones the benefit of the doubt anymore. He just doesn't have any kind of consistency to his game whatsoever. Jones was on the field in the playoffs virtually as much as Jordy from what I saw, especially in the SB after Driver went down. Even so, Jordy had twice the catches that Jones did in the postseason.

[pbmax]

Sorry Max, but I have to disagree on Jones. The guy DID have chances this year to be an impact player in the playoffs, but dropped those chances when they hit him right between the numbers. Combine that with his fumble against the Bears earlier in the year and I just can't give Jones the benefit of the doubt anymore. He just doesn't have any kind of consistency to his game whatsoever. Jones was on the field in the playoffs virtually as much as Jordy from what I saw, especially in the SB after Driver went down. Even so, Jordy had twice the catches that Jones did in the postseason.

Jones has his warts, certainly. But Nelson has disappeared for very long stretches and (until this playoff run) was a notch below in production. Nelson also had a bad case of drops this year like Jones (in fact, I think he had more this year). I love that Nelson delivered, but its going to take more than a 3 game stretch to change my opinion on the relative abilities of the position.

[Fritz]

What I don't understand is how people can glom onto Jones's drops and ignore the big catches he made, yet gloss over Nelson's drops in the SB while championing the big catches he made.

How many did Nelson drop? Three? And one, I recall, looked like it could've gone for a TD - just like the Jones drop we all refer to.

[get louder at lambeau]

Jones has his warts, certainly. But Nelson has disappeared for very long stretches and (until this playoff run) was a notch below in production. Nelson also had a bad case of drops this year like Jones (in fact, I think he had more this year). I love that Nelson delivered, but its going to take more than a 3 game stretch to change my opinion on the relative abilities of the position.

When did Nelson disappear? His stats show multiple catches in 13 of 16 games, and are comparable to Driver and Jones in catches and yards per game. And then he blew up in the playoffs.

In my opinion, we have four starting caliber WRs. After the playoffs, and with Driver's age and Jones' contract, Jordy should be the true #2 next year. I think he just earned a shot at starting opposite Jennings with that Super Bowl performance. He has the most upside, IMO, since he's the youngest and seems to just be hitting his stride. I think he just needs more opportunity as a WR, and to be removed from kickoffs to concentrate on his receiving.

As far as drops, do people really expect that someone targeted about 11 times in a game will catch every one of them? Catching 9 of them is good enough for top 10 all time in a Super Bowl, but you expect even more? As far as Jones, I'm not one of those who was criticizing him for his drops, either. He makes plays. Wes Welker dropped 13 passes this year. Drops happen. I'd like to see a few less from all our guys, but they will never catch them all.

[mraynrand]

not to mention that Jennings had a drop/int in Detroit that very well may have gone for a TD and arguably led to that loss. Receivers drop passes, some more noticeably and frequently than others, but what determines the popular perception is the circumstances of the drop combined with the entire body of work for that particular receiver.

[mraynrand]

I know what you are getting at, but expendable is not the right description.....

yeah, too much breathless hyperbole on my part. Plus the Superbowl victory is beside the point of the thread anyway. I am due my own admonishment. Love Finley's talent; hope to see him on the field for the Packers for many years to come.

[Tarlam!]

Jordy is a great Packer and a legitimate starter on 32 teams. I'm damned certain 16 teams at least would give TT a 2nd and 3rd for him.