Better GM...Thompson or Wolf

[RashanGary]

4th and 26 was a legit contender. We were going to smoke Carolina and go to the SB that year. Our OL would have neutralized Peppers, Jenkins and . . . . I forget who they had, but they had another legit DE.

[mraynrand]

4th and 26 was a legit contender. We were going to smoke Carolina and go to the SB that year. Our OL would have neutralized Peppers, Jenkins and . . . . I forget who they had, but they had another legit DE.

One play away from the final four. If being in the NFC championship doesn't make you a contender, what does?

I coulda been a contender!

[mraynrand]

Injuries, what do you want me to say about it? Injuries happen all the time, and as I recall (I didn't check) one of the SB teams, perhaps even NE actually lost more "starter games" than GB did that year. (Or maybe it was one of the Championship game losers, I don't recall). In my opinion they were not a stronger SB contender beset by injuries, they were a good team that was beset by injuries and got to the playoffs, so the "had a chance".

I disagree about those seasons. I was never overly impressed with any of the 2002, 2003 or 2004 teams going into the season or during it. You obviously were. We can leave it at that. No point in us going around in circles, I have one opinion, you have another.

OK

[Fritz]

That running game from those years was impressive and heartening. It was my favorite part of those teams - moreso than the passing game or the defense. Or the ST. They could run the damn ball, for sure.

[RashanGary]

I'll agree with Patler that under Sherman the roster was slowly depleting. BUT! Sherman had Ahman Green, Brett Favre, Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher, Mike Flannagan, Marco Rivera, Mike Wahle, Donald Driver, Javon Walker, Aaron Kampman, KGB, Kampman, Sharper, McKenzie, Diggs, Navies, Holliday and I'm sure a few others I'm missing off the top of my head.

While they absolutely lacked depth and staying power (it's kind of sick how little depth or cap room they had) they did not lack in a contending starting roster. Had they stayed healthy even one of those 4 years, they could have won the SB.

Obviously Ted has done a better job than Sherman did assembling both a top end roster and a back end roster.

I still think those Packer teams could have won it. I just got really pissed at Sherman when I saw it all starting to crash down. The year we lost Walker and Green to injury right out of the gate. . . . That team was so star dependent. Nobody could come off the bench to help. It was over and I blamed Sherman for that. In hindsight, he did his best, he just wasn't qualified to be an NFL GM. He'd never been and will never be again.

Sherman's final grade is a D+ from me. He had the Packers consistently in position to win the SB if they stayed perfectly healthy. He had stars and at least serviceable players at most other starting positions for the majority of his stay in GB. Most of the players were Wolf players, but Sherman put those final pieces in place, that had they had the magical healthy season, they could have rolled. The reason it's so low is because the cap, developmental players and depth were completely overlooked. He thought he needed a 22 man roster and that was his glaring weakness. More credit from those teams goes to Wolf. 80% of Shermans good players in his tenure were passed down to him.

[vince]

Those defenses were on the soft side by my recollection, particularly against good teams and when it counted most.

[Tarlam!]

Well, I have read all 8 pages. I think Wolf gets the nod, because his task was to form a team in a town nobody wanted to play in. That must have been a challenge.
TT did a great job, no doubt, but the place is not Siberia. The last guy that was openly miffed about coming to GB was Charles Woodson and he is today one of the towns strongest ambassadores!

The poster that said Wold had a "win now" mandate while TT had a "fix this mess" mandate nailed it. It would have been better for Wolf if he'd stayed interested for a couple more years.

[bobblehead]

Well, I have read all 8 pages. I think Wolf gets the nod, because his task was to form a team in a town nobody wanted to play in. That must have been a challenge.
TT did a great job, no doubt, but the place is not Siberia. The last guy that was openly miffed about coming to GB was Charles Woodson and he is today one of the towns strongest ambassadores!

The poster that said Wold had a "win now" mandate while TT had a "fix this mess" mandate nailed it. It would have been better for Wolf if he'd stayed interested for a couple more years.

95% of the players that actually GET to GB become huge ambassadors. Its getting past that preconceived notion that is the challenge. Wolf also had the war chest built up from all those years of selling out games, NFL revenue sharing, and jersey sales while not paying many good players. Wolf burned through that pretty quick in bringing in all that talent (and a few busts). Once the cash was gone and Holmgren was gone, Wolf was pretty quick to get out while his legacy was intact....Just my opinion.

That being said I don't want to discount what he did either. I just prefer TT's method of not overpaying guys, building through the draft and setting up a team for the long haul while making the tough choices at the same time. Letting go of guys like Hendo, Sharper, taking a strong stand with Walker. Those are unpopular choices, but they must be made to maintain excellence.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

4th and 26 was a legit contender. We were going to smoke Carolina and go to the SB that year. Our OL would have neutralized Peppers, Jenkins and . . . . I forget who they had, but they had another legit DE.

My thoughts exactly. We had 7-8 pro bowlers on offense alone, how is that not a contender? Favre, Green, Franks, Driver, Walker, Henderson, and all five offensive lineman (except Tauscher) were problowers sometime during their career. Actually thats 10 probowlers. That defense under Ed donetell was not to bad either. They had Sharper and Mckenzie in their primes. In 2003 we traded for Al Harris. Diggs was decent and Barnett wasn't a bad rook in 03 either. The d-line had Holliday, Kampman, KGB at defensive end (Joe Johnson was on IR just about every year), Grady Jackson came in 03, and Hunt had a decent year were he had 6 sacks if I recall correctly. We also had a reliable kicker in Longwell. Thats a pretty dam good team if you ask me.

The difference between those teams and the one in 2010 is that the 2010 team had backups like Bishop, JJ, Nelson, Peprah, Shields, Zombo, Starks, and Bulaga that came in and replaced injured players without losing much. Yet almost all the players I mentioned were not considered starters before the season or expected to even play all that much. Nobody predicted Zombo, Starks, Shields, and Peprah would be considered reliable starters come seasons end. The 02 and 03 teams on paper looked every bit as impressive as the 2010 team IMHO.

Wolf was a dam good gm. Better than TT? RIGHT NOW I will say probably yes just b/c wolf made the team competitve all 10 years or so he was GM and for almost 5 years after he left. TT has basically accomplished what wolf did in his first 6 years. Can he equal or better what wolf did in the next 8-10 years? Thats yet to be determined, but sure looks like it if Rodgers stays healthy.

[Smidgeon]

My thoughts exactly. We had 7-8 pro bowlers on offense alone, how is that not a contender? Favre, Green, Franks, Driver, Walker, Henderson, and all five offensive lineman (except Tauscher) were problowers sometime during their career. Actually thats 10 probowlers. That defense under Ed donetell was not to bad either. They had Sharper and Mckenzie in their primes. In 2003 we traded for Al Harris. Diggs was decent and Barnett wasn't a bad rook in 03 either. The d-line had Holliday, Kampman, KGB at defensive end (Joe Johnson was on IR just about every year), Grady Jackson came in 03, and Hunt had a decent year were he had 6 sacks if I recall correctly. We also had a reliable kicker in Longwell. Thats a pretty dam good team if you ask me.

The difference between those teams and the one in 2010 is that the 2010 team had backups like Bishop, JJ, Nelson, Peprah, Shields, Zombo, Starks, and Bulaga that came in and replaced injured players without losing much. Yet almost all the players I mentioned were not considered starters before the season or expected to even play all that much. Nobody predicted Zombo, Starks, Shields, and Peprah would be considered reliable starters come seasons end. The 02 and 03 teams on paper looked every bit as impressive as the 2010 team IMHO.

Wolf was a dam good gm. Better than TT? RIGHT NOW I will say probably yes just b/c wolf made the team competitve all 10 years or so he was GM and for almost 5 years after he left. TT has basically accomplished what wolf did in his first 6 years. Can he equal or better what wolf did in the next 8-10 years? Thats yet to be determined, but sure looks like it if Rodgers stays healthy.

Pro bowlers do not equal good team. See the Cowboys every year.

[Patler]

My thoughts exactly. We had 7-8 pro bowlers on offense alone, how is that not a contender? Favre, Green, Franks, Driver, Walker, Henderson, and all five offensive lineman (except Tauscher) were problowers sometime during their career. Actually thats 10 probowlers. That defense under Ed donetell was not to bad either. They had Sharper and Mckenzie in their primes. In 2003 we traded for Al Harris. Diggs was decent and Barnett wasn't a bad rook in 03 either. The d-line had Holliday, Kampman, KGB at defensive end (Joe Johnson was on IR just about every year), Grady Jackson came in 03, and Hunt had a decent year were he had 6 sacks if I recall correctly. We also had a reliable kicker in Longwell. Thats a pretty dam good team if you ask me.

The difference between those teams and the one in 2010 is that the 2010 team had backups like Bishop, JJ, Nelson, Peprah, Shields, Zombo, Starks, and Bulaga that came in and replaced injured players without losing much. Yet almost all the players I mentioned were not considered starters before the season or expected to even play all that much. Nobody predicted Zombo, Starks, Shields, and Peprah would be considered reliable starters come seasons end. The 02 and 03 teams on paper looked every bit as impressive as the 2010 team IMHO.

Wolf was a dam good gm. Better than TT? RIGHT NOW I will say probably yes just b/c wolf made the team competitve all 10 years or so he was GM and for almost 5 years after he left. TT has basically accomplished what wolf did in his first 6 years. Can he equal or better what wolf did in the next 8-10 years? Thats yet to be determined, but sure looks like it if Rodgers stays healthy.

So you would give Wolf credit for 2003 if they had succeeded? He left after the 2000 season. Vonnie Holliday was in KC in 2003, not GB. Green, Walker, Kampman, Harris, Barnett, Grady Jackson, Anderson and Navies (who started that game) were all brought in by Sherman, perhaps Ferguson too (responsibility for the 2001 draft has been hotly debated); as were Kevin Barry, Davenport, Fisher, Walls, Chatman, and most of the other reserves.

Did Wolf still have an imprint on the 2003 team? Sure, mostly on the offense. I said in an earlier post that his last successful draft in 2000 gave Sherman the nucleus to have winning teams through out his stay. But, would Wolf have been responsible for it? Not really.

[mraynrand]

Ahman Green is Wolf's doing. He traded Fred Vinson to Seattle for Green - and a fifth round pick - in 2000. It's very likely Sherman had something to do with it, as he was with Seattle while Green rode the pines, and was the rookie coach in 2000, but Wolf gets the GM credit.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Like mraynrand said I don't give sherman credit for Green. I give him credit for Harris, Kampman, Barnett, Walker, Jackson and a few others.

But obviously after 2-3 seasons even the wrost gm would hit on a few players. Navies, Anderson, and Ferguson were not very good players so to mention them as a credit to Sherman is the same as saying you need 53 players to field a team. Obviously he is going to bring in his own guys after a couple years, but the truely elite players on those teams were still Wolf's players. Walker started becoming a great player in 03, Kampman not until 05-06. Al Harris, Nick Barnett, and Grady Jackson, all players who weren't even with the team in 02, made the biggest immediate impact.

Favre, Green, Clifton, Trauscher, Whale, Rivera, Flanagan, Driver, Franks, Henderson, Mckenzie, Sharper, KGB, Diggs, and Hunt (5.5 sacks in 14 games in 02, and 4 sacks in 03) = 15 core players/starters brought in by Wolf. These players were not players past their prime either. Most of them were in their middle to late 20's. I'll give Sherman credit for Walker, Kampman, Harris, Barnett, Jackson, and patching up the rest of the team with so-so palyers. But like I said before Kampman in 02, 03, wasn't the Kampman of 06-09. Harris, Barnett, and Jackson were players Sherman gets the most credit for during that time period (01-03). It's hard ignore that Wolf kept that team a contender for many years after he left.

[mraynrand]

Wolf had his share of stinker drafts and GM years - '99 and '01 were both lousy, but 2000 was a thing of beauty - the draft and the trade for Green netted 5 high quality starters, including 4 pro bowlers. If either Reynolds or Joe Johnson had worked out (and barring an excess of injuries), I believe that the strength of that draft, and Shermy's revamp of the WR position should have propelled the team to a championship in 2002. Too bad it didn't.

[RashanGary]

Wolf has done more to this date.

To me, if I were a betting man, I'd bet TT finishes his career stronger and takes the cake.