Canton and Rodgers

[Smeefers]

Who might they groom to replace Capers? Perry? Greene? Whitt Jr?

I'm not convinced Capers is going anywhere. He's getting up there in age and he's obviously absolutely awesome as a DC and marginal as a HC (with an expansion team, I admit). There's a lot of legacy if he stays in GB. Packer coaches have a habit of being remembered for a long long time. He could be the Buddy Ryan of this decade. MM obviously has enough faith in him to give him almost complete control of the defense. If he were to leave this year though, he'd be replaced by that ILB coach who's also the assistant coach who's name I can't remember right now.

Oh, and Freeman may have as many yards as Rodgers has rushing, but he also has twice as many fumbles and no TD's compared to Rodgers' 4. Looking at their statistics and statistics only, I'm surprised to see how similar they are. Their stat lines are a basic parody of each other. Rodgers is better, sure, but if I didn't have Rodgers, I wouldn't mind this guy behind center.

[Smidgeon]

I'm not convinced Capers is going anywhere. He's getting up there in age and he's obviously absolutely awesome as a DC and marginal as a HC (with an expansion team, I admit). There's a lot of legacy if he stays in GB. Packer coaches have a habit of being remembered for a long long time. He could be the Buddy Ryan of this decade. MM obviously has enough faith in him to give him almost complete control of the defense. If he were to leave this year though, he'd be replaced by that ILB coach who's also the assistant coach who's name I can't remember right now.

I personally don't think Moss is heir apparent to Capers. His background is a completely different defensive system, whereas both Greene and Perry played in this scheme so know it that much better. Just thoughts.

[Gunakor]

There is only one scenario I can see where McCarthy would leave his cushy coaching gig in Green Bay. Mike Tomlin resigns, and Pittsburgh gives McCarthy a call with an unbelievable offer. MM would leave Green Bay to land his dream job coaching the Steelers, which isn't going to happen any time soon considering how often the Steelers hire new head coaches. Other than that, there's no good reason for him to seek greener pastures. Pastures don't get much greener than the ones in Green Bay right now.

As far as Capers is concerned, transitioning from him is going to be like the Eagles transitioning from Jim Johnson to Sean McDermott. Even if you hire a guy from the same staff, it's not Capers. Things will go downhill for a while. That said, if they decide promote the next DC from within our own ranks, I'm almost positive the first offer made will be to Trgovac.

[Smeefers]

I personally don't think Moss is heir apparent to Capers. His background is a completely different defensive system, whereas both Greene and Perry played in this scheme so know it that much better. Just thoughts.

Very good point.

[Tarlam!]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8207e213/article/rodgers-great-but-must-accomplish-more-to-be-called-best-qb?module=HP_cp2

Rodgers great but must accomplish more to be called best QB

By Bucky Brooks NFL.com

Don't believe the hype.

Even though Aaron Rodgers has put together an impressive résumé that includes a Super Bowl title and an MVP award, he is not in the same class with Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees. In fact, he might not even be worthy of being placed above Philip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger on a list of the league's best quarterbacks.

Debate: One QB to win
You've got one game to win and only one quarterback to do it with. Who do you pick? Our experts debated that question, and only one selected Super Bowl MVP Aaron Rodgers. More...
This is not meant to dismiss Rodgers' numerous accomplishments over his six-year career, but the momentum of his scintillating postseason run has led many to proclaim him the league's top quarterback without fully examining where he stands against the best. That's saying a lot, considering Rodgers' numerous accomplishments over the past three years since taking over for the legendary Brett Favre in Green Bay.

Rodgers has topped the 4,000-yard mark in two of his three seasons as a starter and was only a missed game away from surpassing the feat this season (Rodgers finished with 3,922 passing yards in 15 games in 2010). He has been the model of efficiency in the pocket by compiling a passer rating over 100 in two of his three seasons, while also connecting on over 64-percent of his passes during that span. His touchdown-to-interception ratio of 87:32 is outstanding, and few have matched his success as a starter.

Rodgers' combination of poise, patience and accuracy makes him tough to defend. He shows uncanny timing and precision in the pocket, and is superb with his ball placement, hitting his receivers in stride. Although he is able to pick apart defenses with a "connect the dots" approach, he is also an excellent deep-ball thrower with the arm strength, touch and accuracy to punish defenses for creeping up to defend the short game.

In addition to being proficient from the pocket, Rodgers is a dual threat with the ability to hurt opponents with his feet and arm. He ranked only behind Michael Vick and Josh Freeman in rushing yards among quarterbacks last season, and his scrambling skills often result in big plays.

While all aspects of Rodgers' game rate highly, he is surrounded by an outstanding supporting cast that makes the game easier for him. He inherited an offense that was among the game's elite under Favre, and the continued development of the league's best receiving corps makes it hard to credit Rodgers solely for the unit's remarkable output. Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, Jordy Nelson, and James Jones are big, physical receivers with excellent running skills. They specialize in turning short passes into big gainers.

In comparison, Rivers and Manning continued to put up big numbers despite playing with a hodgepodge of pass catchers over the past few years. Rivers, in particular, finished as the league's leading passer with a host of street free agents playing prominent roles. Granted, Rodgers can't control the level of talent surrounding him, but it is much easier to enjoy tremendous success when you have the weapons in place to thrive.


Another overlooked factor in Rodgers' phenomenal run has been the presence of the league's top defense. On the surface, it wouldn't appear that the Packers' defense would have an effect on Rodgers' play, but the added opportunities created off turnovers and three-and-outs leads to short fields and more scoring opportunities. Over the past two seasons, the defense has finished among the top six units in takeaways, and the extra possessions have certainly led to more big plays and production from Rodgers.

Manning, for example, has never been backed by an elite defense, yet he has continued to make the Colts one of the league's most productive units. The Colts led the league in 2010 with 34 10-play scoring drives, with 21 of those resulting in touchdowns.The Packers only produced 17 10-play scoring drives, but finished fifth in the league in points off takeaways.

A laundry list of impressive statistics is certainly a big part in deciding between the best quarterbacks, but it ultimately comes down to winning championships. Rodgers' Super Bowl XLV victory earns him a spot in the conversation, but it is hard to consider him better than Brady and Roethlisberger based on their multiple championship victories.

Brady, who has earned three Super Bowl rings in four tries, is considered the quintessential winner of the modern game. He became the fastest quarterback in the league to win 100 games as a starter, and his flair for orchestrating dramatic comebacks in Super Bowl has cemented his status as the top quarterback in the game.

Roethlisberger has already captured two rings in seven seasons. Although some would say he won his first title in spite of his performance, he earned his stripes with his stirring performance in Super Bowl XLIII over the Arizona Cardinals. His game-winning drive was orchestrated in dramatic fashion with a pinpoint pass to Santonio Holmes winning the game.

While Roethlisberger doesn't compare stylistically to Rodgers, his rings and winning pedigree make it hard to dismiss his standing as one of the top quarterbacks in the game.

Rodgers has deservedly earned a spot at the table with the elite quarterbacks after his scintillating postseason run that resulted in his first Super Bowl title. However, a legacy is built over time, and his résumé is simply too short to put him above some of the great signal callers still playing at a high level in today's game.

[Joemailman]

I agree that Rodgers isn't quite there yet. The last 2 years he's been the NFL's best quarterback in the 2nd half of the season and the playoffs. However, his 1st half performance hasn't been quite as good. He needs to be elite for a full season before he can be put up there with Brady and Manning. I think he can do it, and it might happen this year, but in my opinion it hasn't happened yet.

[Deputy Nutz]

There is only one scenario I can see where McCarthy would leave his cushy coaching gig in Green Bay. Mike Tomlin resigns, and Pittsburgh gives McCarthy a call with an unbelievable offer. MM would leave Green Bay to land his dream job coaching the Steelers, which isn't going to happen any time soon considering how often the Steelers hire new head coaches. Other than that, there's no good reason for him to seek greener pastures. Pastures don't get much greener than the ones in Green Bay right now.

As far as Capers is concerned, transitioning from him is going to be like the Eagles transitioning from Jim Johnson to Sean McDermott. Even if you hire a guy from the same staff, it's not Capers. Things will go downhill for a while. That said, if they decide promote the next DC from within our own ranks, I'm almost positive the first offer made will be to Trgovac.

We all thought Holmgren wouldn't leave unless it was to the 49ers, but he up and left for more control, of the Seahawks for piss sakes.

[Bossman641]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...?module=HP_cp2

Some of the points in that article piss me off. Downgrading Rodgers because he had a good defense and good skills position players around him? Not like Manning has garbage. Furthermore, Brees, Manning, and Rivers don't have to face anywhere near the weather conditions Rodgers does.

[Patler]

We all thought Holmgren wouldn't leave unless it was to the 49ers, but he up and left for more control, of the Seahawks for piss sakes.

Who thought that? Most figured GB was just a stepping stone for Holmgren. He never talked that enthusiastically about GB as a "career," he often talked about eventually wanting a position with more control even early in his tenure, he turned down talks to renew his contract after the SB win, and he tried to get out after the '97 season. It got to the point that Harlan and Wolf made an announcement that they had informed Holmgren that they would deny permission to teams to talk to him even if it included a GM offer. His contract had two years left, and the rumor was they told him they wanted him to complete at least one more, to see if they could get a 2nd SB win after losing to the Broncos.

The impression from MM is much, much different than anything from Holmgren.

[Scott Campbell]

Some of the points in that article piss me off. Downgrading Rodgers because he had a good defense and good skills position players around him? Not like Manning has garbage. Furthermore, Brees, Manning, and Rivers don't have to face anywhere near the weather conditions Rodgers does.

Hopefully Rodgers is pissed off about it too. We all know how he responds to that kind of thing.

[Deputy Nutz]

Who thought that? Most figured GB was just a stepping stone for Holmgren. He never talked that enthusiastically about GB as a "career," he often talked about eventually wanting a position with more control even early in his tenure, he turned down talks to renew his contract after the SB win, and he tried to get out after the '97 season. It got to the point that Harlan and Wolf made an announcement that they had informed Holmgren that they would deny permission to teams to talk to him even if it included a GM offer. His contract had two years left, and the rumor was they told him they wanted him to complete at least one more, to see if they could get a 2nd SB win after losing to the Broncos.

The impression from MM is much, much different than anything from Holmgren.

You point out the obvious. They named a street after him in Green Bay for christsakes. The same euphoria that is going on now is what it was after the Super Bowl win in 1996. Then the story broke that Holmgren was taking offers during the 1997 Super Bowl, and Wolf and Harlan then came out. We all knew that Holmgren wanted more, but we certainly didn't think it was going to be after two straight Super Bowl appearances.

My point is all good things that happen in sports come to an end. Thinking that McCarthy and Thompson are going to build a twenty year dynasty is too much cool aid.

[Brandon494]

What a fucking hater! Manning has had Harrison, Wayne, and Clark while Rivers has had LT, Gates, and Jackson yet this dude is acting like Rodgers is the only QB who has ever played with talented playmakers. Then he wants to bring up defense like the Steelers don't rank in the top 3 each year for Big Ben. Also didn't the Saints defense have to step up last season for Brees to win his first SB. Sorry Bucky Brooks but you sir are a fucking moron.

[Brandon494]

It just makes no sense at all to think McCarthy is going to pull a Holgrem. Im not going to even waste my time arguing about it.

[Joemailman]

I suppose the key is how long TT stays here. I get the sense that Thompson and McCarthy are on the same wavelength as far as the type of players they want here. As long as Thompson is here, McCarthy has no reason to want more influence in personnel decisions. Whether that will change if/when Thompson leaves is anybody's guess.

[Lurker64]

Some of the points in that article piss me off. Downgrading Rodgers because he had a good defense and good skills position players around him? Not like Manning has garbage. Furthermore, Brees, Manning, and Rivers don't have to face anywhere near the weather conditions Rodgers does.

These things are especially ridiculous. The Green Bay passing game is largely based on two principles: "the play action game being effective because McCarthy continues to run the ball even when though it's not working", and "overwhelming the secondary with a collection of C+ to B receivers". The former just comes down to coaching and playcalling, though Rodgers does have the authority to audible so you have to give him credit for it, but the latter only works when you have a QB who's on top of his game. It's a lot harder to spot the open WR in a 4 or 5 wide set in the time afforded by minimal protection than it is to huck the ball up to a superstar physical freak WR who will catch the ball even if covered and can beat most defensive backs by 3 yards (Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Brandon Marshall, etc.) The only pass catching threats that we have that are really B+ or better are Jennings and Finley, and Finley missed 3/4 of last season.

As for the defense... so what? Does anybody really believe that the defense didn't have a lot to do with Roethlisberger's rings or Brady's? Both of the Manning brothers have a damn good pass rush to thank for their rings: Eli had the best DL in the league, and Peyton has only won a ring in a season where Bob Sanders was healthy the whole time. Brees doesn't win a ring last year if the Saints don't force so many opportune turnovers (including FIVE in the NFC Championship game, a game where they won the turnover differential by 4 and the game by 3.) The last team to win the superbowl where the defense wasn't a huge part of the accomplishment was the 1999-2000 Rams, and that defense was still very solid (finished fourth in the NFL in scoring defense), it's just that offense was one of the all-time great offenses. You don't win the superbowl in this day and age without a defense that's not significantly about average at least one important thing.