A Hater's Take Part 4

[Deputy Nutz]

The Packers just A-holed a professional football team with solid history of winning football games in the Denver Broncos. The Broncos are young on defense and old on defense which doesn't make for a good combination, but their defense looked worse than Nebraska's.

Aaron Rodgers accounted for 6 touchdowns, four through the air, and two on the ground. Rodgers is gunning for his first MVP of the regular season and his stats are backing him for the early season favorite. It is hard to figure out what he can do better, but since I don't like the guy he needs to handle the rush better. He still has a case of the happy feet when pressure comes. It is not 2008, but if he could work on one part of his game it would be hanging in the pocket, working on his footwork to giving him passing windows through the pressure. This is the one part of the game where other QBs in the league are better than him, but that list isn't very long with Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning.

The wide receiving core is sick. Throw in Finley and I can't find a better core in all of the NFL, maybe ever. Don Driver showed a lot of heart and determination to come back from a leg injury to catch a second half touchdown pass. Some where probably afraid that they just saw the last of DD. Driver is no longer 2nd on the depth chart, that honor goes to Jordy Nelson. Nelson's length and speed are finally becoming a matchup problem for opposing secondaries. Cobb is showiing glimmers of why this guy could end up being one of the most dangerous players in the game when the ball is in his hands. He is more quick than he is fast, but he keeps his balance and is able to break the big play. Great player to have in the slot. Double J gets a TD, aparently he isn't invisible.

Starks is what he is and he is servicable for this offense. Hard to find fault with his game yesterday, but his vision isn't real great in the open field. He is a straight ahead type of runner at this point who gains the tough yards, but the combination of him and Grant is when this team is at their best at the running back position.

Packers offensive line is having issues on the edge against fast past rushers, Newhouse had issues against Von Miller and Clifton had a case of the Dumervilles. The interior of the offensive line is so much better with TJ Lang at left guard than Daryn Collegde.

The defensive line can clog up the line of scrimmage, but I haven't seen the pass rush from BJ Raji that we saw at the end of last season. Pickett loves to stop the run.

Linebackers, does this team actually employ linebackers? Mathews almost had a sack, a couple of knockdowns, but unless the Packers can get a rush from some where else Mathews is a nonfactor. Hawk is failing this season, for whatever reason is game has taken a step back from last season, same goes for Bishop who is a risk in pass coverage. Walden is a one game wonder and unfortunately that game came 9 months ago against the Bears.

The secondary is getting picked on because there is no pass rush, and in the NFL which is a pass happy league, unless you can get after the QB passes are going to be completed in bunches. The loss of Nick Collins is proving to be costly, more costly than any injury that was suffered last season to the Packers. Woodson is still a playmaker with instincts that don't need practice.

[SkinBasket]

I have to agree on Rodgers. The INT came after he was dancing around, trying to be cute. Either throw the ball to someone, tuck and run, or throw it away. He keeps this holding onto the ball for 7 seconds shit up, and he's going to get another concussion.

Starks needs to stop turning his back to the line while running. And he's kind of gay.

Clifton got bent over and filled with Bronco baby batter.

[pbmax]

I don't get the sense that we are back to the 7 second wait in the pocket. But moving around in the pocket is the only time he seems less than extraordinarily accurate. Those throws are the ones that seem to go high. Of course, we are talking about a fraction of 26% of his throws.

[Brandon494]

Damn why can't Rodgers just play perfect every time he drops back.

[SkinBasket]

Damn why can't Rodgers just play perfect every time he drops back.

It's not about playing perfect. It's about not getting injured from overconfidence in his ability to throw. Especially with the line we have.

[RashanGary]

It's not about playing perfect. It's about not getting injured from overconfidence in his ability to throw. Especially with the line we have.

I think it's a combination of confidence in ability to throw and confidence in his ability to get away from rushers. It's just confidence overall, and a willingness to get hit rather than throw it into a dangerous spot. It's the winning way to play. It beats the 15-20 interceptions the last guy threw each year, but yeah, it puts him at some added risk. Late in Favre's career he would lay down or heave it up. Self-preservation-wise, it's probably the way to go.

[RashanGary]

Joe Montana played 16 seasons, but only has 13 years worth of actual football. He was only fully healhty for 4 seasons. Aikman played 12 seasons and only had 2 full healthy seasons. Two of the lowest sack guys are the two highest injury guys. It's a different era because of how the QB is protected of course. Today, taking a few more sacks might make more sense, since they're not the horrible death blows that you watch on youtube of Aikman and Montana.


Montana 24 sacks per year. (16 games for everyone)
Brees 20 sacks per year
Brady 27 sacks per year
Aikman 22 sacks per year
Favre 27 sacks per year
Rogers current average (37 per year)


Early in all of those guys careers, the numbers were higher.

Brady was at 35 per year in his first 3
Montana no change mid 20's
Aikman 34 per year
Favre 32 per year
Brees no change (low 20's)


Rodgers 37 to Bradys 35 or Aikman's 34 isn't a huge contrast.


Rodgers is on pace this year for 28. He's right in that Brady/Favre career average realm and a little higher still than the others.

Rodgers demeanor might be most similar to Brady's/Aikman's. They hate throwing picks. They're perfectionists. Those three had the highest early career sack totals.

One day during that 50 sack year AR just decided to turn it off and it was so. It might be a bit of an anomaly or maybe some foolish stubbornness on AR/MM's part. Remember them saying they weren't going to change, they were going to demand more from the OL? There was some crazy MM hate after those interviews. Either way, it was a strange 8 games. Even with that, he fits right in with the most recent multi champ and another recent multi-champ (Aikman). Take that weird 8 games out and he fits with Favre and Brees too. Regardless, would you rather he be more like Brady and Aikman or Favre and Brees? However you cut it, he's very similar with his sack totals to some recent multi champs and the stat collectors. He's more similar to multi champs. Throw Ben in there and it looks even better. I just don't consider Ben as great as the others, maybe that's my bias though. It would make the "AR takes too many sacks" thing even less relevant though.

[Deputy Nutz]

It isn't about taking sacks, it is about working the pocket. Rodgers has vastly improved in this, but still not great. You heard Phil Simms say a couple of times that Packers are going with a more vertical passing attack instead of the short quick hitting passes of the West Coast Offense. Waiting 2 more seconds for receivers to get open 20 yards downfield versus 8 yards downfield does make a significant difference.

[Deputy Nutz]

You want to see this defense get better, then the Packers need to get pressure on the QB. It doesn't come from scheme, it comes from beating the guy across from you and the Packers have not done this on a consistent enough basis to improve their defense and stop opposing offenses.

[SkinBasket]

I think it's a combination of confidence in ability to throw and confidence in his ability to get away from rushers. It's just confidence overall, and a willingness to get hit rather than throw it into a dangerous spot. It's the winning way to play. It beats the 15-20 interceptions the last guy threw each year, but yeah, it puts him at some added risk. Late in Favre's career he would lay down or heave it up. Self-preservation-wise, it's probably the way to go.

Yeah, I get the trade off, but I also get the sense that Rodgers believes he should have 100% completion percentage every game, and isn't ending some plays when he should. This was especially true yesterday, when it looked like he was holding the ball out of want more than need. I'm just concerned that he's going to take a helmet to his back waiting for Jenkins or Cobb to break free down-field when he could have checked down or thrown it away in a game where his team is up by 20 or 30 points.

[pbmax]

It isn't about taking sacks, it is about working the pocket. Rodgers has vastly improved in this, but still not great. You heard Phil Simms say a couple of times that Packers are going with a more vertical passing attack instead of the short quick hitting passes of the West Coast Offense. Waiting 2 more seconds for receivers to get open 20 yards downfield versus 8 yards downfield does make a significant difference.

Yes, but wasn't Simms comparing him to either 2007 Favre and the slant factory? Rodgers has other short throws he prefers. I think looking deep is more on the QB and his confidence in the pocket more than a change in McCarthy. He looks vastly better than in 2008 and parts of 09.

His sense of where rushers are seems much improved too. He bailed at the right time several times as Clifton lost Dumerville around the edge. He has not taken the same number of big shots as he did last year at this time.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Joe Montana played 16 seasons, but only has 13 years worth of actual football. He was only fully healhty for 4 seasons. Aikman played 12 seasons and only had 2 full healthy seasons. Two of the lowest sack guys are the two highest injury guys. It's a different era because of how the QB is protected of course. Today, taking a few more sacks might make more sense, since they're not the horrible death blows that you watch on youtube of Aikman and Montana.


Montana 24 sacks per year. (16 games for everyone)
Brees 20 sacks per year
Brady 27 sacks per year
Aikman 22 sacks per year
Favre 27 sacks per year
Rogers current average (37 per year)


Early in all of those guys careers, the numbers were higher.

Brady was at 35 per year in his first 3
Montana no change mid 20's
Aikman 34 per year
Favre 32 per year
Brees no change (low 20's)


Rodgers 37 to Bradys 35 isn't a huge contrast.


Rodgers is on pace this year for 28. He's right in that Brady/Favre career average realm and a little higher still than the others.

Rodgers demeanor might be most similar to Brady's. He hates throwing picks. He's a perfectionist. Those two had the highest early career sack totals and both had early career championsh just decided to turn it off and it was so. It might be a bit of an anomaly, in which case, he'd be right with the recent SB winners, past multi-champs and huge stat collectors like Favre.

You can't really compare him to most of those guys because most were pocket passers who couldn't run worth a lick. Rodgers makes big plays with his feet, so he's going to stretch/extend plays. I'd be more interested in comparing him to similar style QBs. Randall Cunningham and Mike Vick are on the other end of the spectrum, and their sacks are astronomical because of all of the scrambling they do. Montana and Favre in their early years (when they scrambled more) are good comparisions + Steve Young, John Elway, and perhaps somebody like Steve McNair are more apt comparisons. Rodgers definitely held onto the ball too long his second year--when it seemed like he was trying to let the big play develop. However, even by the end of that year he had gotten a lot better. Now, I think he has a good balance between getting rid of the ball but still making some plays with his scrambling ability.

Rodgers has been ridiculously good. There's not a thing he doesn't do well. End of story.

[SkinBasket]

Rodgers has been ridiculously good. There's not a thing he doesn't do well. End of story.

Does that include sex stuff?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Does that include sex stuff?

Probably.

[pbmax]

Let's hope we never find out.