Suddenly, I'm Really Down On This Team

[woodbuck27]

" Let's see where we stand at the beginning of presesaon. If we can avoid injuries and get some chemistry in the ranks, there may be something to cheer about. . . . "

" I really don't think cutdowns will provide us with much hope. Anyone we bring in will take some time to get acclimated to our system, especiallly if they're offensive lineman that aren't used to our cutblock scheme. "

tyler

Sobering thoughts by tyler

I awoke this AM thinking about this thread. Does it suck - blow ? I hope most will agree it's more about venting.

There was alot of heartfelt emotion spent on this thread, but no insults felt no anger released by any poster. Sure it started a fire that spread to other threads on this board. I don't see that as bad. We had things to get off OUR chests.

I went back in the thread and looked for something to follow up on, and I found the above quotes from tyler.

Maybe if we look at it this way - if we win 8 games this season that is OUR Super Bowl?

Seven games won, is 75% better than last season's four wins. Four wins is FOUR very hard fought and successful games away. I'm going to enjoy every win, and I'll be patient for the first one.

My mantra.

Eight wins in 2006 - OUR Super Bowl.

GO PACKERS !

HOLD FAITH FOR A BETTER 2006 . . . 2007. . . .

[Terry]

...I believe I am one of the realists here and I am analytical by nature. I have a bigger purpose here than to BASH Ted Thompson. I am sorry Man.

I don't trust him. That may change in time, but I expect alot from the GM of the Green Bay Packers. Ted Thompson enables us as winners or losers and that is a fact. He has a heavy responsibility and some fans like me will be his watchdog....

...I post honestly, in terms of searching for direction as a Packer fan. I have like you been a Packer fan for a very long time Terry, and I don't want younger Packer fans to suffer two and a half decades of losing...

No offense, my friend. I'm one of your biggest fans. I didn't mean for my post to come off as being particularly critical exactly. But, as I reread my own post, I realize that it sounded that way. Maybe my problem is that I tend to take the good for granted and only pipe in when I spot something - maybe if I were more complimentary on a regular basis, I wouldn't appear so critical when I take issue with something. Well, sigh, I'm unlikely to change my ways. But since I read here more than other forums at which I've been a regular for years but now give short shrift and since you are so prolific a poster, that alone ought to be some indication that I like your stuff.

Anyway, I agree with your take on Thompson's importance. I suppose the only difference is that I'm waiting to see, still, before I turn sour on him or on McCarthy. You said in another post that 8-8 would be like our SuperBowl. Well, to me, I expect 8-8 minimum - THIS year! Perhaps you and others will see 7-9 as improvement, but I'll see it as failure and in football, I ALWAYS blame failure on the top. If we don't hit 7-9, I'll no longer be patient, but rather one of those guys who will be hard to convince that there is anything redeeming in Packer management/coaching.

Maybe I'm spoiled. I missed almost all of those two and a half decades you refer to. For most of them, I was out of touch with the Packers. For the first half a dozen years, I was drinking, chasing women, and living for show biz. So, in a way, I went straight from Lombardi to Holmgren. Almost. So I'm probably NOT a realist - I expect the best and I'm optimistic.

For Sherman, I mentally gave him a lot of space because of winning seasons. I had early misgivings, but kept my mouth shut because of how the wind was blowing. The postseason play/coaching dismayed me, but I gave even that some leeway, until the notorious Eagle's game. From then on, I had little positive to say about Sherman, until finally the majority view caught up with that sentiment. I never forgave Holmgren for the Bronco's SuperBowl, though I did feel he deserved respectful treatment for what he had done previously.

You might find that I'm more dubious of TT and MM 6 months from now than even you are at the time. We'll see. But right now, I don't have much to say about either of them. That's really all there is in the difference. However, I do put EVERYTHING down to the coaching. After the countless posts I've read here and elsewhere about the O-Line, I was stunned that someone somewhere actually made a reference to the O-Line coaching. I actually wrote "Hallelujah" in reply.

Anyway, back to our subject, my purpose (consciously) was to make a suggestion, that's all. Not a judgement or an admonishment. But regardless of how you go forward, it will not dampen my positive sense of your insights and contributions.

[jack's smirking revenge]

" Let's see where we stand at the beginning of presesaon. If we can avoid injuries and get some chemistry in the ranks, there may be something to cheer about. . . . "

" I really don't think cutdowns will provide us with much hope. Anyone we bring in will take some time to get acclimated to our system, especiallly if they're offensive lineman that aren't used to our cutblock scheme. "

tyler

Sobering thoughts by tyler

I awoke this AM thinking about this thread. Does it suck - blow ? I hope most will agree it's more about venting.

There was alot of heartfelt emotion spent on this thread, but no insults felt no anger released by any poster. Sure it started a fire that spread to other threads on this board. I don't see that as bad. We had things to get off OUR chests.

I went back in the thread and looked for something to follow up on, and I found the above quotes from tyler.

Maybe if we look at it this way - if we win 8 games this season that is OUR Super Bowl?

Seven games won, is 75% better than last season's four wins. Four wins is FOUR very hard fought and successful games away. I'm going to enjoy every win, and I'll be patient for the first one.

My mantra.

Eight wins in 2006 - OUR Super Bowl.

GO PACKERS !

HOLD FAITH FOR A BETTER 2006 . . . 2007. . . .

Thanks for the playbay Woodbuck. I thought about my comments on this forum a lot over the last day. I am/was pessimistic and I can't sugar coat that. When I was a naive football fan, only watching the Packers and glued to my radio for every preseason game, praying that they'd just WIN BABY!, it was easy to be optimistic. I didn't understand the inner workings of the league or the team. It was very easy to expect playoffs or SB every year. There was an excitement that I haven't felt since I danced in the snow-covered streets in Green Bay in January 1997. Perhaps I became a fan during an era which really spoiled me. I became a fan in 1988 after returing to the U.S. from Europe. Like others, the "dark time" is a bit of a fairy tale to me. I've been allied to this team ever since and allied to one of the most successful teams of the last 15 years (2005 aside). It truly is difficult for me to NOT be filled with Kool-Aid.

But, over time, as fantasy football made me understand the league and the game better, I became more critical. Of everything in the game. Sure, blame it on fantasy football. Its the root of all evil (but DAMN FUN!). There is definitely a part of me that can't just look at this team with Green&Gold goggles on, accepting everything the team does as right. I have a problem with the concept of "0-0" prior to the season, even though it is a very logical perspective.

This is a troubled team. After thinking about it more, I think my own perspective is taking a bit of a turn. I used to give MM and TT a bit of breathing room, more benefit of the doubt. But as the "troubles" were unveiled yesterday and were visible on the screen, I couldn't help but wonder how it got this bad. Some definitely can be blamed on Sherman's reign (depth), but the blame for preparedness and current roster fall on the shoulders of MM and TT.

There is time for them to turn it around, but I don't think time will really fix the problems. The problem is that we need some new players. This roster can't bear many more injuries to the starters. Not this year anyway. Even the Vikes have better depth than we do, though not by much.

So, yes, this thread has probably gone from suck to blow. My long-ass rants have helped stretch it to epic proportions (but, hey, I am ticking closer to 1,000 posts!). All of this reflection has helped me get to a place where I am comfortable with the Packers achieving "incremental" success this year. Some will disagree, come back to the 0-0 preseason concept, but in the end I can't help but look at 2006 as a rebuilding year. I'm not telling people how to prepare for 2006 because I don't know any better than anyone else how this year will turn out.

But I think the problems are problems, ones that will involve growing pains throughout the team. Growing pains lead to losses, but they also lead to experience. Experience that will be invaluable in 2007. I haven't written off 2006, but I don't expect success. In fact, I am expecting much disappointment and many disheartening games. Another 4-12 year is very possible. Perhaps the only way I can drink the Kool-Aid is by swallowing the bitter pill along with it.

Packer fan, through and through. Realist to a fault.

tyler

[Creepy]

Didn't have to dig far Woodbuck,

You wrote,

"Ted Thompson spent way too much money on Charles Woodson, which could have been used to really assist OUR OL, or maybe a solid RB or WR. He's sitting on a lot of money now below OUR CAP, that could be used to bring in WR Jerry Porter; and it would only take a third round pick to attain WR Ashley Lelie (maybe a player as well?). He can't sit back in his office and come out on the field and cover his face anymore.

Some will argue - why bring in another RB or WR when the basic problem lies in an OL in disarray? OUR OL sucks !!!! Well I challenge all of you Packer fans, to explain to me why Ted Thompson waited for "the DRAFT" to do anything with OUR OL? THE DRAFT ????? "

Like you I generalized the available players for these signings to position. Lets see you want the Ol fixed (guards) only one decent guard available was Hutchinson, the RB you want so bad was who, Bennett, Alexander or please tell me the other FA signing he could have made that was better than what we had, WR you claim Lelie & Porter, but you know you wanted TO. It is easy to sit back and say get this and buy that and not name names. When you start looking at the names you see that it wouldn’t have been cheap and we could ill afford these players.

I do agree in signing a big FA if your on the cusp of a SB chance, but not a single player mentioned would have made GB a SB contender. So he drafts the players he wants and builds with young players who may or may not work out. It is a better way than spending gobs of money on FAs who may or may not make GB a better team. Just because the cap jumped up, doesn't mean you need to put yourself deeper in debt.

Doom and gloom because of a pre-season game is BS. If they don't improve and they start getting waxed in the regular season, then you can tell me how smart you were about it. GB has done the right thing this year, they have improved the defense and the offense will be better than last years as long as they keep the turnovers down.

Your correct it is hard to go back in your posts and see who GB should have taken in FA. Pretty easy to say get somebody but not who. That way whoever GB gets you can degrade. Why? Because you don’t like TT, and that is it. Nothing more or less.

Your, "Oh woe is me" attitude about the coming season is crap. All it takes is a couple of wins and moving in the right direction and a 4-12 team becomes a 12-4 team. Talent GB has, and how they respond is where they will be. There will be growing pains, but I can see GB going 11-5 or as low as 7-9, and may be the difference between a fumble or int in a game.

[MJZiggy]

Nice post, Creepy.

[woodbuck27]

...I believe I am one of the realists here and I am analytical by nature. I have a bigger purpose here than to BASH Ted Thompson. I am sorry Man.

I don't trust him. That may change in time, but I expect alot from the GM of the Green Bay Packers. Ted Thompson enables us as winners or losers and that is a fact. He has a heavy responsibility and some fans like me will be his watchdog....

...I post honestly, in terms of searching for direction as a Packer fan. I have like you been a Packer fan for a very long time Terry, and I don't want younger Packer fans to suffer two and a half decades of losing...

No offense, my friend. I'm one of your biggest fans. I didn't mean for my post to come off as being particularly critical exactly. But, as I reread my own post, I realize that it sounded that way. Maybe my problem is that I tend to take the good for granted and only pipe in when I spot something - maybe if I were more complimentary on a regular basis, I wouldn't appear so critical when I take issue with something. Well, sigh, I'm unlikely to change my ways. But since I read here more than other forums at which I've been a regular for years but now give short shrift and since you are so prolific a poster, that alone ought to be some indication that I like your stuff.

Anyway, I agree with your take on Thompson's importance. I suppose the only difference is that I'm waiting to see, still, before I turn sour on him or on McCarthy. You said in another post that 8-8 would be like our SuperBowl. Well, to me, I expect 8-8 minimum - THIS year! Perhaps you and others will see 7-9 as improvement, but I'll see it as failure and in football, I ALWAYS blame failure on the top. If we don't hit 7-9, I'll no longer be patient, but rather one of those guys who will be hard to convince that there is anything redeeming in Packer management/coaching.

Maybe I'm spoiled. I missed almost all of those two and a half decades you refer to. For most of them, I was out of touch with the Packers. For the first half a dozen years, I was drinking, chasing women, and living for show biz. So, in a way, I went straight from Lombardi to Holmgren. Almost. So I'm probably NOT a realist - I expect the best and I'm optimistic.

For Sherman, I mentally gave him a lot of space because of winning seasons. I had early misgivings, but kept my mouth shut because of how the wind was blowing. The postseason play/coaching dismayed me, but I gave even that some leeway, until the notorious Eagle's game. From then on, I had little positive to say about Sherman, until finally the majority view caught up with that sentiment. I never forgave Holmgren for the Bronco's SuperBowl, though I did feel he deserved respectful treatment for what he had done previously.

You might find that I'm more dubious of TT and MM 6 months from now than even you are at the time. We'll see. But right now, I don't have much to say about either of them. That's really all there is in the difference. However, I do put EVERYTHING down to the coaching. After the countless posts I've read here and elsewhere about the O-Line, I was stunned that someone somewhere actually made a reference to the O-Line coaching. I actually wrote "Hallelujah" in reply.

Anyway, back to our subject, my purpose (consciously) was to make a suggestion, that's all. Not a judgement or an admonishment. But regardless of how you go forward, it will not dampen my positive sense of your insights and contributions.

Terry:

I only grow from criticism. Your post, called on me to examine myself, and I spent alot of time doing that since your post. I am a little bit tough on OUR GM. I'm also pulling for him, as I must. He's the MAN !!

Sincerely Terry. Thank You.

GO PACKERS ! HOLD FAITH FOR 2006 AND BEYOND !!

[woodbuck27]

Packer fan, through and through. Realist to a fault.

tyler

DITTO !

Now I have to deal with more from Creepy and his cheering section,MJZiggy.

Life's a trip .

GO PACKERS ! HOLD THE FAITH !!

[woodbuck27]

Didn't have to dig far Woodbuck,

You wrote,

"Ted Thompson spent way too much money on Charles Woodson, which could have been used to really assist OUR OL, or maybe a solid RB or WR. He's sitting on a lot of money now below OUR CAP, that could be used to bring in WR Jerry Porter; and it would only take a third round pick to attain WR Ashley Lelie (maybe a player as well?). He can't sit back in his office and come out on the field and cover his face anymore.

Some will argue - why bring in another RB or WR when the basic problem lies in an OL in disarray? OUR OL sucks !!!! Well I challenge all of you Packer fans, to explain to me why Ted Thompson waited for "the DRAFT" to do anything with OUR OL? THE DRAFT ????? "

Like you I generalized the available players for these signings to position. Lets see you want the Ol fixed (guards) only one decent guard available was Hutchinson, the RB you want so bad was who, Bennett, Alexander or please tell me the other FA signing he could have made that was better than what we had, WR you claim Lelie & Porter, but you know you wanted TO. It is easy to sit back and say get this and buy that and not name names. When you start looking at the names you see that it wouldn’t have been cheap and we could ill afford these players.

I do agree in signing a big FA if your on the cusp of a SB chance, but not a single player mentioned would have made GB a SB contender. So he drafts the players he wants and builds with young players who may or may not work out. It is a better way than spending gobs of money on FAs who may or may not make GB a better team. Just because the cap jumped up, doesn't mean you need to put yourself deeper in debt.

Doom and gloom because of a pre-season game is BS. If they don't improve and they start getting waxed in the regular season, then you can tell me how smart you were about it. GB has done the right thing this year, they have improved the defense and the offense will be better than last years as long as they keep the turnovers down.

Your correct it is hard to go back in your posts and see who GB should have taken in FA. Pretty easy to say get somebody but not who. That way whoever GB gets you can degrade. Why? Because you don’t like TT, and that is it. Nothing more or less.

Your, "Oh woe is me" attitude about the coming season is crap. All it takes is a couple of wins and moving in the right direction and a 4-12 team becomes a 12-4 team. Talent GB has, and how they respond is where they will be. There will be growing pains, but I can see GB going 11-5 or as low as 7-9, and may be the difference between a fumble or int in a game.

Alot of writing there Creepy. Did you back yourself up based on your claims against my posts based on the FA's you claim I said I wanted ?

Did YOU ?

Lots of rhetoric - PROOF ?

If that's all that matters - that your right?

Then - Creepy BE RIGHT !!!

GO PACKERS ! HOLD FOR FAITH in 2006 and BEYOND !!

[Bretsky]

...I believe I am one of the realists here and I am analytical by nature. I have a bigger purpose here than to BASH Ted Thompson. I am sorry Man.

I don't trust him. That may change in time, but I expect alot from the GM of the Green Bay Packers. Ted Thompson enables us as winners or losers and that is a fact. He has a heavy responsibility and some fans like me will be his watchdog....

...I post honestly, in terms of searching for direction as a Packer fan. I have like you been a Packer fan for a very long time Terry, and I don't want younger Packer fans to suffer two and a half decades of losing...

No offense, my friend. I'm one of your biggest fans. I didn't mean for my post to come off as being particularly critical exactly. But, as I reread my own post, I realize that it sounded that way. Maybe my problem is that I tend to take the good for granted and only pipe in when I spot something - maybe if I were more complimentary on a regular basis, I wouldn't appear so critical when I take issue with something. Well, sigh, I'm unlikely to change my ways. But since I read here more than other forums at which I've been a regular for years but now give short shrift and since you are so prolific a poster, that alone ought to be some indication that I like your stuff.

Anyway, I agree with your take on Thompson's importance. I suppose the only difference is that I'm waiting to see, still, before I turn sour on him or on McCarthy. You said in another post that 8-8 would be like our SuperBowl. Well, to me, I expect 8-8 minimum - THIS year! Perhaps you and others will see 7-9 as improvement, but I'll see it as failure and in football, I ALWAYS blame failure on the top. If we don't hit 7-9, I'll no longer be patient, but rather one of those guys who will be hard to convince that there is anything redeeming in Packer management/coaching.

Maybe I'm spoiled. I missed almost all of those two and a half decades you refer to. For most of them, I was out of touch with the Packers. For the first half a dozen years, I was drinking, chasing women, and living for show biz. So, in a way, I went straight from Lombardi to Holmgren. Almost. So I'm probably NOT a realist - I expect the best and I'm optimistic.

For Sherman, I mentally gave him a lot of space because of winning seasons. I had early misgivings, but kept my mouth shut because of how the wind was blowing. The postseason play/coaching dismayed me, but I gave even that some leeway, until the notorious Eagle's game. From then on, I had little positive to say about Sherman, until finally the majority view caught up with that sentiment. I never forgave Holmgren for the Bronco's SuperBowl, though I did feel he deserved respectful treatment for what he had done previously.

You might find that I'm more dubious of TT and MM 6 months from now than even you are at the time. We'll see. But right now, I don't have much to say about either of them. That's really all there is in the difference. However, I do put EVERYTHING down to the coaching. After the countless posts I've read here and elsewhere about the O-Line, I was stunned that someone somewhere actually made a reference to the O-Line coaching. I actually wrote "Hallelujah" in reply.

Anyway, back to our subject, my purpose (consciously) was to make a suggestion, that's all. Not a judgement or an admonishment. But regardless of how you go forward, it will not dampen my positive sense of your insights and contributions.

Terry:

I only grow from criticism. Your post, called on me to examine myself, and I spent alot of time doing that since your post. I am a little bit tough on OUR GM. I'm also pulling for him, as I must. He's the MAN !!

Sincerely Terry. Thank You.

GO PACKERS ! HOLD FAITH FOR 2006 AND BEYOND !!

GREAT; SO NOW YOU'VE TURNED INTO A WUSS ABOUT HOLDING TT ACCOUNTABLE

IMO you are not too tough on the GM.

[woodbuck27]

...I believe I am one of the realists here and I am analytical by nature. I have a bigger purpose here than to BASH Ted Thompson. I am sorry Man.

I don't trust him. That may change in time, but I expect alot from the GM of the Green Bay Packers. Ted Thompson enables us as winners or losers and that is a fact. He has a heavy responsibility and some fans like me will be his watchdog....

...I post honestly, in terms of searching for direction as a Packer fan. I have like you been a Packer fan for a very long time Terry, and I don't want younger Packer fans to suffer two and a half decades of losing...

No offense, my friend. I'm one of your biggest fans. I didn't mean for my post to come off as being particularly critical exactly. But, as I reread my own post, I realize that it sounded that way. Maybe my problem is that I tend to take the good for granted and only pipe in when I spot something - maybe if I were more complimentary on a regular basis, I wouldn't appear so critical when I take issue with something. Well, sigh, I'm unlikely to change my ways. But since I read here more than other forums at which I've been a regular for years but now give short shrift and since you are so prolific a poster, that alone ought to be some indication that I like your stuff.

Anyway, I agree with your take on Thompson's importance. I suppose the only difference is that I'm waiting to see, still, before I turn sour on him or on McCarthy. You said in another post that 8-8 would be like our SuperBowl. Well, to me, I expect 8-8 minimum - THIS year! Perhaps you and others will see 7-9 as improvement, but I'll see it as failure and in football, I ALWAYS blame failure on the top. If we don't hit 7-9, I'll no longer be patient, but rather one of those guys who will be hard to convince that there is anything redeeming in Packer management/coaching.

Maybe I'm spoiled. I missed almost all of those two and a half decades you refer to. For most of them, I was out of touch with the Packers. For the first half a dozen years, I was drinking, chasing women, and living for show biz. So, in a way, I went straight from Lombardi to Holmgren. Almost. So I'm probably NOT a realist - I expect the best and I'm optimistic.

For Sherman, I mentally gave him a lot of space because of winning seasons. I had early misgivings, but kept my mouth shut because of how the wind was blowing. The postseason play/coaching dismayed me, but I gave even that some leeway, until the notorious Eagle's game. From then on, I had little positive to say about Sherman, until finally the majority view caught up with that sentiment. I never forgave Holmgren for the Bronco's SuperBowl, though I did feel he deserved respectful treatment for what he had done previously.

You might find that I'm more dubious of TT and MM 6 months from now than even you are at the time. We'll see. But right now, I don't have much to say about either of them. That's really all there is in the difference. However, I do put EVERYTHING down to the coaching. After the countless posts I've read here and elsewhere about the O-Line, I was stunned that someone somewhere actually made a reference to the O-Line coaching. I actually wrote "Hallelujah" in reply.

Anyway, back to our subject, my purpose (consciously) was to make a suggestion, that's all. Not a judgement or an admonishment. But regardless of how you go forward, it will not dampen my positive sense of your insights and contributions.

Terry:

I only grow from criticism. Your post, called on me to examine myself, and I spent alot of time doing that since your post. I am a little bit tough on OUR GM. I'm also pulling for him, as I must. He's the MAN !!

Sincerely Terry. Thank You.

GO PACKERS ! HOLD FAITH FOR 2006 AND BEYOND !!

GREAT; SO NOW YOU'VE TURNED INTO A WUSS ABOUT HOLDING TT ACCOUNTABLE

IMO you are not too tough on the GM.

Ted! Ted!! It's all about Ted !!!

GO PACKERS ! HOLD THE FAITH - It's ALL ABOUT TED !!