DEFENSIVE PLAYERS DISAPPOINTING ? Your list .......

[Brandon494]

Jones and Starks?

[Upnorth]

Jones and Starks?

I expected Jones to be at the very least a quality #3 wr. Starks I was hoping to continue where he ws in the playoffs. Really the running game in general has been disappointing (to me).

[pbmax]

The DL have said many times this year, they're not rushing up field at the QB very often so you can't gauge pass rush. The Packers are playing far less 8 in the box football. The DL are both 2 gappers right now, with very little leeway to turn it up.

This week Raji was let loose a little. He had a lot of pressure.

It's a different defense this year. The DL have less freedom.

I hear it said quite a bit from the football guys. . . . there is more to it than numbers and impressions from outside. None of us knows what a guy is being asked to do. I learned that again with my Finley hate.


My hunch. . . . Raji is just fan-fuckin-tastic. He's a victim of piss poor safety play that's taking a defender away from run support and forcing him to be a "stay square - 2 gapper" on most of his snaps.

But some of these suppositions are contradictory. Your Capers quote earlier suggested he called more Cover 2 recently. Versus the Giants, that was seven in the box, base 3-4. But you suggest Raji had more on gap freedom versus the Giants which is supposed to be antithetical to 7 in the box. Also, I do not think the D line is two gapping on any pass downs unless they are facing a fearsome running QB or Rothliesberger.

The other thing is that Capers doesn't play a lot of straight 2-gap Okie in base. He often reduces that front (I think that is the term) to shade the nose tackle and play one end in a wider technique. That front, if you count the OLB, looks exactly like Fritz Shurmur's 4-3 Under defense with Gilbert and Reggie.

I suspect, in addition to adjusting for lack of pass rush/safety play, Capers has had to adjust to trouble with the running game.

We need data. Does anyone have any stats from McGinn about the amount of nickel versus base this year?

And I would still like a link to an example of the quotes because I find the possibility of more 2 gapping to be intriguing as one of the differences between this year and last.

[Smidgeon]

Neal. I expected something more than the last three games have shown. He's had time to get healthy, so maybe he just has to play into football shape. I expect him to start flashing in either the Chiefs game or the Bears game. If not, I'll start wondering if the injury took something out of him.

Peprah. After last year's solid play, I expected more of the same. Turns out two things are true: Nick Collins had enough range to make up for Peprah's limitations and Burnett is no Nick Collins. I'm not saying Burnett doesn't have potential to be all-pro (I'm not saying he does either), but he's playing his first full season and Collins is better than I had appreciated.

Raji and Woodson. For whatever reason, the plays don't quite seem to be there. Now Raji just had his best game (after the reduced snap count) and could light it up down the stretch. And I'm only disappointed in Woodson because I expect an outstanding play or two every game.

Matthews gets a pass because he's been leading the league in QB pressures since early on (I'm assuming that pace continued) even though the sacks aren't coming.

Shields gets a pass from me because I expected a sophomore slump. He's still new and depending on speed too much last year. I think he's working on technique a lot and is therefore seeming to slump. But when he completes "changing his swing", I think he'll be fine again.

Tramon gets a pass because of his shoulder.

Jones gets a pass because as of a couple weeks ago, he was still ahead of his 2010 catching pace (haven't checked it since).

[gbgary]

I expected Jones to be at the very least a quality #3 wr. Starks I was hoping to continue where he ws in the playoffs. Really the running game in general has been disappointing (to me).

running would be better if the o-line wasn't crippled and inexperienced. they're doing their best. we're a passing team anyway. i'm not disappointed.

[Patler]

I thought this thread was supposed to be about defensive players. Why are we mentioning/discussing Starks and/or James Jones?

[Upnorth]

I thought this thread was supposed to be about defensive players. Why are we mentioning/discussing Starks and/or James Jones?

Are you trying to limit our ability to complain about people with far superior athletic talent to ourselves? Come on a thread title is more of a suggestion than and order. Rules, i've had it up to here with your stinkin' rules.

[mraynrand]

Per the JS, Raji played 85% of the defensive downs in 2010, and was playing just over 88% until a few weeks ago when the conscious effort was made to play him less. While the 3% increase would have amounted to an increase of about to 2 plays per game based on 2010 performance, as we all know the defense is playng more poorly this year, and is playing more snaps per game than last year.

So, while Raji's participation level was up only 3%, at the time he was actually playing almost 6 plays per game more in 2011 than he did in 2010.

That was a double Whammy!

[pbmax]

Still does not explain his dropoff in performance earlier in the year. However, both Justin and McGinn noted that Raji had some of his best rushes this week against the G-Men. And the G-Men can pass block. Even if they had to play musical chairs to find a center.

[mraynrand]

if we had a rush those boys in the back wouldn't be in such shape. they're at a huge disadvantage because of the blitzing, injuries, and lack of d-line pressure. i'm not really disappointed in anyone. they're all doing their best.

I hope you're wrong about this!

[Fritz]

Brad Jones and CJ Wilson. I didn't expect them to be world-beaters, but I expected Jones to flash a little more ability and maybe take on some snaps with coverage responsibilities once Zombo was done. CJ Wilson was supposed to take the next step and be able to handle some snaps at end so the d-line guys like Wynn could stay fresh.

Fuckers.

[denverYooper]

I've been somewhat disappointed in Hawk. He has often seemed pretty slow and been prone to getting faked out. He's never been a speedster but he seems even slower this year. I sort of wonder if Francois might see more snaps in obvious passing downs over Hawk.

Of course, I base that on the "one play" rule -- Francois had that memorable interception in the Lions game--so I could very well be way off base in thinking that this would be more successful.

The other thing that I have been disappointed in is Safety play in general. I suppose they're doing the best they can given their limitations -- I think Burnett will be a fine safety in another year or two once he's seen enough and Peprah is a good backup -- but they both seem to get lost at times. IIRC, Pittsburgh struggles quite a bit when Polamalu is out, so maybe replacing a Pro-Bowl Safety is harder than other positions.

[Fosco33]

2010 Packers Defensive Stats-

240 points allowed (15/game) - 2nd in NFL
6 games where held to 7 points or less (or 21 points/game in the other 10 games)
5.1 yards/play allowed (5.4 net yards/attempt passing; 4.7 y/a rushing)
24 INTs

Point differential - 2nd in NFL

Net yards/pass attempt differential - 1.7 (one of the most key stats in football) - 2nd behind Chargers

2011 Packers Defensive Stats (thru 12 games)
Pace for 350 points (21.8/game) - 17th in NFL
2 games held to 7 or less (pace for one more)
6.3 yards/play allowed (7 net yards/passing attempt; 4.9 y/a rushing)
Pace for 31 INTs

Point differential - 1st in NFL

Net yards/pass attempt differential - 1.4 (one of the most key stats in football) - 3rd in NFL (behind Houston and Steelers)

[Fosco33]

In short...

Pack is still top of league in point differential and net yards/pass attempt differential. And we've improved in forcing INTs (and not throwing them).

Biggest concern is obvious - degraded in yards/pass attempt by 1.6 yards and point/game by 6.8.

We're still fucking good.

[denverYooper]

In short...

Pack is still top of league in point differential and net yards/pass attempt differential. And we've improved in forcing INTs (and not throwing them).

Biggest concern is obvious - degraded in yards/pass attempt by 1.6 yards and point/game by 6.8.

We're still fucking good.

I can agree with that.

It seems that the identity of the team has changed to become the passing juggernaut they were supposed to be.