WILL the REAL TRAMON WILLIAMS PLEASE STEP UP ?

[Deputy Nutz]

Mathews is a good pass rusher on technique alone. I wouldn't call him average, he is just undersized and can get engulfed at the point by decent right tackles, especially when their isn't pressure coming up the middle. It has been a tough year though because even in a bad year an OLB in a 3-4 scheme should net you 10 sacks, this is the major problem with the 3-4 when teams figure it out or you don't have the key players in the front seven you have major leaks and breakdowns in all phases.

[bobblehead]

During Kampman's 2 double-digit sack seasons, the Packers had other viable pass rushers (KGB, Corey Williams, Cullen Jenkins). It is very difficult to be a one man gang, as CMIII has had to be most of this year. Some of the hurries he's had this year would likely be sacks with a little more pressure coming up the middle.

Not true. Playmaker theory. Those other guys were all inferior to Kampman and only his greatness made them look much better than they really were.

[bobblehead]

Mathews is a good pass rusher on technique alone. I wouldn't call him average, he is just undersized and can get engulfed at the point by decent right tackles, especially when their isn't pressure coming up the middle. It has been a tough year though because even in a bad year an OLB in a 3-4 scheme should net you 10 sacks, this is the major problem with the 3-4 when teams figure it out or you don't have the key players in the front seven you have major leaks and breakdowns in all phases.

Well said. I may have overstated by calling him average. He is clearly above average. He is pretty much above average in EVERYTHING he does which makes him a great OLB. He is not a great pass rusher though....he needs help around him.

[mraynrand]

Against a top ten pass blocking oline in det we got two sacks without clay. With him we probably get at least one more and a whole bunch more pressure. Clay Is very important but we aren't crap on a stick without him.

I don't know. A lot of games the Packers have looked like crap on a stick with Matthews. It seems to me that they're asking Matthews to do a lot of stuff, not just rush the passer, and that's part of the problem. Not having ANY pass rush from any other position is a huge issue as well. Also, many times the Packers can't send Clay the same time they send other pressure because they have him in coverage. Also, teams only have to scheme against clay.

Plus, just forget the OLB DE comparisons - that's apples and oranges.

And about Jared Allen: after watching him play for a pretty marginal defense this year, with little help along the line, I'm even more convinced that he's a significantly better pass-rushing DE than Kampman ever was.

[falco]

[Upnorth]

Well said. I may have overstated by calling him average. He is clearly above average. He is pretty much above average in EVERYTHING he does which makes him a great OLB. He is not a great pass rusher though....he needs help around him.

There are no great pass rushers with out some help. Mathews is very very good but not as good as dedicated de pass rushers. That is the point I was making. He puts up slightly inferior numbers to some of the best specialists, yet fills many other roles as well. That's why I picked some of the players I did for the comparison.

[pittstang5]

So, I've been watching the Detriot vs. Packers game for the last week or so, off and on (a little here and a little there). Tramon was absolutely horrible in this game. Horrible.....just horrible. He better step the "F" up against the Giants.

[Tarlam!]

So, I've been watching the Detriot vs. Packers game for the last week or so, off and on (a little here and a little there). Tramon was absolutely horrible in this game. Horrible.....just horrible. He better step the "F" up against the Giants.

Megatron has the ability to make unsuspecting secondaries look aweful. Sometimes it's more prudent to issue kudos where they are due, rather than put a finger on a gaping wound. It'll let you sleep better.

[pittstang5]

Megatron has the ability to make unsuspecting secondaries look aweful. Sometimes it's more prudent to issue kudos where they are due, rather than put a finger on a gaping wound. It'll let you sleep better.

No Doubt Megatron has the ability. He made some nice catches, I'm not taking that away from him. Tramon could have played and I've seen him play so much better.

[Upnorth]

Cruz has been playing at a very high level the last half of the year. The real question is can williams limit him the way he did Wallace, Jackson and atl reciever during last years playoffs? They all made some plays but were somewhat limited. We stop cruz and they have the underneath game left.

[pittstang5]

Cruz has been playing at a very high level the last half of the year. The real question is can williams limit him the way he did Wallace, Jackson and atl reciever during last years playoffs? They all made some plays but were somewhat limited. We stop cruz and they have the underneath game left.

Cruz alone doesn't bother me that much. He's good, no doubt, but the other horses they have in Nicks and Manningham could cause fits in the secondary. I'm not sure if Tramon will go against Cruz, I see Shields playing him more with Tramon and Woodson on Nicks and Manningham. Who knows.

[Upnorth]

Cruz alone doesn't bother me that much. He's good, no doubt, but the other horses they have in Nicks and Manningham could cause fits in the secondary. I'm not sure if Tramon will go against Cruz, I see Shields playing him more with Tramon and Woodson on Nicks and Manningham. Who knows.

Was Manningham injured the last time we played them? He had no catches. Also I think once you take away Cruz, Nicks is very containable, but that could be the koolaid.

[LEWCWA]

Manningham has that tendency. He disappears. Nicks is the vital cog to that rec. group. Take him out of the game and you should be ok. Shields and Williams have the speed to keep up with Cruz and Manningham.

[vince]

Manningham was out when the Packers played them.

[Tarlam!]

For those that annointed Clay the second coming when I was saying he was actually inferior to Aaron Kampman as a pass rusher....wtf happened??

Maybe I'm flogging a dead horse with you, Bobble, but I think this excerpt speaks volumes :

from One on One with Clay Matthews

Q. Your coach, Kevin Greene, said he’s never seen a pass-rusher have more blockers dedicated to him than you have this season. Has it been frustrating?

A. Anytime you have more than one coming your way, it can get frustrating, but you have to understand that this game comes together like a chess match, and if they’re going to send two, sometimes three guys coming my way, it means we have one-on-one matchups in other parts of the field, and we understand that we have to be able to win those and, at the same time, we still have to be able to beat those double-teams and bring pressure. You look at the top pass-rushers in the league and it’s a constant battle to get to the quarterback, but you look at the offensive coordinators around the league and it’s a constant battle to neutralize that one key pass-rusher.

Excuse me if I trust Kev Greene's assessment over yours!