Good thing Gregg Williams didn't take the Packer Job...

[Fosco33]

Another odd thing I read. You can't give incentive to players for individual game performances - say for INTs/Sacks. My guess - because it would essentially be an unlimited spend - outside the contract and cap.

The writers made it seem like it was part of the ethics of the game.

WTF?

There are TONS of incentive-laden contracts. Peyton allmighty is the classic talk of the heads recently as an option for next year.

I'm certainly not opposed to incentive-laden contracts - nor would I be opposed to a team having a known pool of incentives (part of their cap) that they could designate to motivate players or make up for players having a rock star year and not getting reimbursed.

No Fun League

[Lurker64]

williams confessed with apology to the league.

He also lied to NFL investigators during the initial investigation. I think a permanent ban on Gregg Williams wouldn't be excessive. "Intentionally injuring other players" is something the NFL can neither allow, nor can they even allow the impression that players are trying to intentionally injury each other. Every job Williams has in the NFL from here on out will have the appearance of impropriety , and that's something the NFL really doesn't want.

Mickey Loomis is definitely out of the NFL for good (he lied to NFL investigators, and he lied to his boss), and Williams should be. I would give Sean Payton a two year suspension.

[pbmax]

Matt Bowen recalling the bounties of the Williams led Redskin defense: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...4015992.column

Bowen's memories are not quite the QB killing machine picture that is being reported about the Saints bounty practices. He remembers a pot consisting of fines from an NFL version of a baseball kangaroo court and the money paid out for INTs, forced fumbles and sacks. He recalls money paid for clean hard hits like getting a RB below the knees. Darren Sharper denies people were paid to hurt others while he was on the Saints but seems to acknowledge other payouts for performance during games.

So I think, at least in the Saints case, Williams system was "enhanced" by Vilma and a few other players who made it a blatant pay for injury scheme at $10,000 for Favre. And its likely that the Saints players weren't the only ones to take the scheme to that extent (I would be stunned if this hadn't cropped up at least periodically on the Redskins or Titans).

The original report was the investigation into Vilma's $10,000 offer wasn't it? Which means had the underlying pay for performance not been turned up, this story would not have gone any further. Goodell said the investigation had closed (or stopped) until new information came to light.

And this will impact the Packers 2012 season. Gregg Williams best friend in the NFL is Jeff Fisher. Both are products of Buddy Ryan, the originator of this kind of bounty system. The Pacers face The Schwartz twice (a product of Fisher/Ryan), the Rams (Fisher/Williams) and the Saints next year. Wonder if Ndamokung was just trying to get paid?

Finally, the Packers are not exactly free and clear here. Reggie White refused to believe he shouldn't attempt to knock a QB out of the game and that attitude was undoubtedly encouraged by Buddy Ryan in Philadelphia prior to his arrival in the Emerald City.

[smuggler]

From what I have heard:

Saints will lose their second round pick this season. They will also lose one other pick that will be from next year's draft, possibly the first rounder.
GM Loomis will be fined $1,000,000, if he is not fired by the Saints
Coach Sean Peyton will see the maximum fine of $750,000 and will see at least a two game suspension, if he is not fired by the Saints
DC Gregg Williams will be suspended for one year without pay and face a fine. The Rams will almost certainly fire him. He will probably never coach a meaningful position in the NFL again.
LB Jon Vilma will face at least a two game suspension, which probably will not include an additional fine. He is expected to be released for a cobination of cap and PR reasons.
LB Scott Fujita will face at least a one game fine, " ".
DB Roman Harper will face the same
As many as 24 other players may also see fines and/or suspensions.

Loomis, Payton, and Williams, as well as any player that received a payment from the pool are subject to civil and/or criminal law for their actions. It is not known if the findings of the NFL investigation would be admissible as evidence in a criminal conspiracy case.

The Saints are liable for injuries that were coordinated under the pool system. Favre has a good case to sue. Steve Smith, and others as well.

This doesn't include anything they uncover in their investigations of the Redskins.

[Lurker64]

That almost seems too light. I think the NFL suspends Payton and Loomis at least a year, and Williams will get the Johnny Jolly "indefinite suspension" treatment.

The players should get off comparatively lightly.

[Fritz]

Somehow I don't think it'll all be that seriously disciplined. I see a slap on the wrist for Payton, some fine, maybe a forfeiture of a fourth round pick or something, and maybe a one-game suspension for the players like Vilma who ponied up.

[Lurker64]

Somehow I don't think it'll all be that seriously disciplined. I see a slap on the wrist for Payton, some fine, maybe a forfeiture of a fourth round pick or something, and maybe a one-game suspension for the players like Vilma who ponied up.

You're forgetting that "player safety" is Roger Goodell's defining obsession. Noe only did the Saints players encourage each other to deliberately injure opponents, but they were so encouraged by management, and management out-and-out lied to the NFL about it when asked during an official investigation. There is no way the Saints get off easier on this than the Pats did with Spygate. Also, this is a salary cap violation.

[Pugger]

One severe 'punishment' might be that Williams gets canned and never gets another meaningful job in the NFL.

[Lurker64]

One severe 'punishment' might be that Williams gets canned and never gets another meaningful job in the NFL.

Loomis is definitely getting canned and will never get another meaningful job in the NFL.

Saints owner Tom Benson told Loomis to make sure the bounty thing was ended before this became a big issue, Loomis lied to his boss and said it was. "Lying to your boss and getting the entire organization in a ton of trouble" is a good way to ensure that nobody will ever put you in a position of similar responsibility again.

[smuggler]

They're definitely screwed. They're going to have to cut Sedrick Ellis and Jon Vilma, most likely. That saves them $10m on the cap, so they can make an offer to Nicks, conceivably, and still afford to pay Brees. Colston is so gone that it's not funny.

Players who are recorded as taking payments will probably miss at least one game each.

[Lurker64]

Florio makes an excellent point about Williams: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ounty-program/

... And if the use of a bounty program with the Redskins is indeed news to the NFL, it likely means that, when Gregg Williams inevitably was given a chance to purge his soul by confessing the depth of the rabbit hole, he said something like “I swear I never did it before being hired by the Saints.”

If that’s the case — if Williams lied to the league about pre-New Orleans bounties after initially lying to the league about using bounties with the Saints — Williams has to go. Permanently.

Apart from any discipline imposed on the Saints or any other coaches or any of the players involved, if Williams failed to admit the extent of his use of a bounty program after finally admitting to using one in New Orleans, the man who recently was hired to serve as the Rams defensive coordinator should be banned from the NFL, for life.

Harsh? Yes. But necessary.

Apart from the habit (not mistake) of dangling cash as an incentive to cripple, Williams hasn’t been honest, at least when asked about bounties in New Orleans and most likely when asked about bounties elsewhere.

Williams both broke the rules and lied to conceal it. Given the underlying nature of the violation, the NFL can’t afford to keep him employed, not at a time when safety has become such a priority.

If he really has lied to the NFL that much, I don't see any reason not to give him the Pete Rose treatment.

[KYPack]

From what I have heard:

Saints will lose their second round pick this season. They will also lose one other pick that will be from next year's draft, possibly the first rounder.
GM Loomis will be fined $1,000,000, if he is not fired by the Saints
Coach Sean Peyton will see the maximum fine of $750,000 and will see at least a two game suspension, if he is not fired by the Saints
DC Gregg Williams will be suspended for one year without pay and face a fine. The Rams will almost certainly fire him. He will probably never coach a meaningful position in the NFL again.
LB Jon Vilma will face at least a two game suspension, which probably will not include an additional fine. He is expected to be released for a cobination of cap and PR reasons.
LB Scott Fujita will face at least a one game fine, " ".
DB Roman Harper will face the same
As many as 24 other players may also see fines and/or suspensions.

Loomis, Payton, and Williams, as well as any player that received a payment from the pool are subject to civil and/or criminal law for their actions. It is not known if the findings of the NFL investigation would be admissible as evidence in a criminal conspiracy case.

The Saints are liable for injuries that were coordinated under the pool system. Favre has a good case to sue. Steve Smith, and others as well.

This doesn't include anything they uncover in their investigations of the Redskins.

One million bananas, Smuggler? Christ, I wish I could afford to pay a fine like that.

That would be a bit of sting, eh?

Williams might get canned for this.

Sean Payton is a slick bastard, I bet he'll get himself out of this deal with a light punishment.

[ND72]

NFL released a 50,000 page document about this to all teams. 50,000!?!?!?

Espn radio today said this could be what happens:
1. Loomis - heavy fine around $1 mil, and suspension for season of all football related activity with ay team, unless fired.
2. Williams - Suspended for at least this season and fined.
3. Payton - talks of suspending him up to 6 regular season games plus a fine. Suspension would mean no activity with team of any kind. Unless fired.
4. Vilma - 8 game suspension and fine.
5. Every player listed in report suspended anywhere from 1-4 games plus fines. They said there is one unnamed player right now could face a year suspension.
6. Saints - organization could be fined, and lose up to 4 draft picks over next 2-3 seasons.

Wowzer...

[Patler]

Put yourself in the position of the owner. Your top management levels intentionally did things they had to know were wrong. At least one lied to you about it, and intentionally disobeyed your direct instructions. They lied to investigators.

Do you, as owner, have any option but to clean house? I could never trust the GM or HC again. Both would be fired. Several others in addition to Payton (and not only coaches) are reported to have known about it and/or put up money for it. I would get rid of them all, because I could never trust their judgement again.

It is the only way to begin restoring the image of the franchise. Everyone associated with it would be fired, if I were the owner.

[Pugger]

If the owner doesn't clean house that will speak volumes.