Good thing Gregg Williams didn't take the Packer Job...

[woodbuck27]

From what I have heard:

Saints will lose their second round pick this season. They will also lose one other pick that will be from next year's draft, possibly the first rounder.
GM Loomis will be fined $1,000,000, if he is not fired by the Saints
Coach Sean Peyton will see the maximum fine of $750,000 and will see at least a two game suspension, if he is not fired by the Saints
DC Gregg Williams will be suspended for one year without pay and face a fine. The Rams will almost certainly fire him. He will probably never coach a meaningful position in the NFL again.
LB Jon Vilma will face at least a two game suspension, which probably will not include an additional fine. He is expected to be released for a cobination of cap and PR reasons.
LB Scott Fujita will face at least a one game fine, " ".
DB Roman Harper will face the same
As many as 24 other players may also see fines and/or suspensions.

Loomis, Payton, and Williams, as well as any player that received a payment from the pool are subject to civil and/or criminal law for their actions. It is not known if the findings of the NFL investigation would be admissible as evidence in a criminal conspiracy case.

The Saints are liable for injuries that were coordinated under the pool system. Favre has a good case to sue. Steve Smith, and others as well.

This doesn't include anything they uncover in their investigations of the Redskins.

What is your source? The penaltys you mention above (rumour to me as it stands now) surprize me. Seems to me the shit might have hit the fan if your claims are somewhat correct.

[mraynrand]

Is this fella (the writer - DJ Gallo) entirely serious?

The football on his head should be a dead giveaway.

[pbmax]

Not sure if you intended this as a rebuttal to something I wrote or not, but I didn't write or intend to suggest that the US case was dismissed on merit,

I did and I may have misread you on that part, but it seemed the phrase on the dismissal was part of a list of hurdles such litigation would have to overcome. My apologies if that was not the case.

There is no doubt such a lawsuit would need an egregious example of injury and someone going out of their way to cause an injury. But I think hitting a QB in the chin after a handoff is close (and if memory serves, it was a clear shot to the head, not a glancing blow while tackling) but what is missing is the terrible injury.

I think the official sanction of the team and team officials surpasses the actions of the NHL folks, even their public statements, because of the stated intent and payment for injury. As you stated in your first run down, it would have been common for Moore to be subject to certain retaliation but not to the Bertuzzi action. It would be common in the NFL to find players trying to hit opponents hard enough to degrade their ability to perform. Far fewer would admit intent to injure to force a player to leave a game (out of simple self interest if nothing else). Most would wish to say 'I hit them hard enough to cause injury sometimes, and if they leave that is just part of the game. But I am not out to ruin careers' Few would say the goal was primarily to injure them. The target list makes that leap, it calls into question the motivation. And if motivation exists outside the normal course of a football game to cause injury, then you simply need to link it to the resultant injury.

The extra legal monetary incentives that violate NFL rules, the CBA and might interest the IRS (obviously dependent on the amounts) are the leverage or incentive to encourage the behavior. Bertuzzi's point about his coach calling for action went beyond the acknowledged public statements. Bertuzzi claims the coach still wanted retaliation after Moore had accepted the first fight. He claimed his coach kept bringing up Moore between periods by number and had it written on the whiteboard. Those claims are contested. The injury list and payments (assuming money changed hands) have been established for the Saints, as has the coach's authority in the matter and the team's acquiescence.

I am not a lawyer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. And Patler, it seems that among your many experiences, you have dealt with lawyers or the legal system far more often than I, so I do nod to your experience in this matter. I simply think that one reason the NFL is so interested in this (actually its probably a secondary reason at the moment **) is that an explicit list and the sanction of the team put this matter in a different legal light than the rest of the on field aggression.


**The first reason, and its related, are player safety issues and the threat of lawsuits concerning head trauma. That, plus an 18 game season.

[woodbuck27]

SI report: Saints' Hargrove proclaimed, 'Favre is done!'

By Marc Sessler NFL.com

• Updated: March 6, 2012 at 09:12 p.m.

• • The image is troubling: Gregg Williams at the front of the room, doling out cash-filled white envelopes to his Saints defenders, their payout for a signature play in the previous week's game. Rewards starting at $100 for a special teams tackle inside the 20 and up to $1,500 for knocking out an opponent, money the players would be encouraged to give right back, to increase the kitty.

Peter King's Sports Illustrated investigation into the Saints' "bounty" program paints the picture of a team deeply entangled in a "pay for performance" culture that reached a fever pitch during their 2009 Super Bowl season.

The swelling pot of money at the center of this circus reportedly spiked before their January 2010 NFC title game against the Vikings, when Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma allegedly offered $10,000 to anyone who knocked quarterback Brett Favre out of the game.

Saints defensive linemen Bobby McCray and Anthony Hargrove accounted for multiple penalties and $25,000 in fines for vicious hits on Favre in that 31-28 overtime win, and, as Favre was helped off the field with a sprained ankle, a fired-up Hargrove jawed with teammates, proclaiming: "Favre is out of the game! Favre is done! Favre is done!"

King reports that, amid the chaos, an on-field microphone caught an unidentified Saints defender shouting, "Pay me my money!"

When Roger Goodell caught wind of the bounty system, he was devastated, a source close to the Commissioner told King.

"God forbid this is true," Goodell said, according to the source. "This will be earth-shattering."

[woodbuck27]

Favre happy 'the truth comes out' on Saints' practices

• By Dan Hanzus NFL.com
• Updated: March 5, 2012 at 07:17 p.m.

• • By Dan Hanzus NFL.com

Brett Favre wasn't "pissed" when Gregg Williams' illegal "bounty" program was exposed by the NFL, but he's happy the bill has come due for the Saints.

The league's two-year investigation yielded a direct connection to Favre by way of Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma, who allegedly offered $10,000 to any player who could knock the quarterback -- then with the Vikings -- out of the NFC Championship Game in January 2010.

"Now the truth comes out. That's good. But that's football," Favre told Sports Illustrated while planting soybeans at his farm in Mississippi.

"The only thing that really pisses me off about the whole thing is we lost the game. That's the thing about that day that still bothers me. And that's the way it goes. If they wanted me to testify in court about this, they'd be calling the wrong guy."

Favre took a nasty beating in the 31-28 overtime loss, and the NFL's findings help explain why.

"It's football. I don't think anything less of those guys," Favre said.

"I would have loved to play with Vilma. Hell of a player. I've got a lot of respect for Gregg Williams. He's a great coach. I'm not going to make a big deal about it.

Saints' 'bounty' program exposed

Latest news:
» League summary details Saints' evasiveness
» SI: Hargrove proclaimed, 'Favre is done!'
» Darlington: An uncertain future for Saints
» Debate: What is proper punishment in scandal?
» Williams, NFL meet to discuss 'bounty' system
» Lombardi: Goodell faces biggest verdict yet
» Legal action not likely in 'bounty' scandal
» Williams told Saints to 'knock 'em ... out'
» Brooks: 'Pay for performance' is commonplace

"In all honesty, there's a bounty of some kind on you on every play," Favre continued.

"Now, in that game there were some plays that, I don't want to say were odd, but I'd throw the ball and whack, on every play. Hand it off, whack. Over and over. Some were so blatant. I hand the ball to Percy Harvin early and got drilled right in the chin. They flagged that one at least."

Favre is referring to a hit early in the game in which New Orleans defensive lineman Bobby McCray popped the quarterback in the chin. The play drew a 15-yard unnecessary-roughness penalty and an eventual fine. Favre also was subjected to a pile-driving tackle by defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove (another 15-yard foul and fine) and a brutal high-low takedown by McCray and defensive tackle Remi Ayodele (which drew, almost inexplicably, no flag).

Favre believed he broke his ankle on the high-low play. "I felt a lot of crunching in there," he said.

"I've always been friends with (former Saints safety) Darren Sharper, and he came in a couple times and popped me hard," Favre told King about his former Packers teammate.

"I remember saying, 'What THE hell you doing, Sharp?' I felt there should have been more calls against the Saints. I thought some of their guys should have been fined more."

If it's any consolation to Favre, the Saints undoubtedly will get those fines now. And that might be just the start of it.

[smuggler]

RIP Saints

[woodbuck27]

Ex-Vikings coach Brad Childress on Bountygate: NFL 'did what they needed to do'

March 6, 2012 5:54 AM GMT Updated: 03/05/2012 11:54:15 PM CST




Minnesota Vikings coach Brad Childress as his team plays the Green Bay Packers at Lambeau Field Sunday October 24, 2010. (Pioneer Press: Chris Polydoroff)



Related

• Bountygate
• New Orleans Saints coach, GM take 'full responsibility' for bounty program
• Vikings' Brett Favre among New Orleans Saints' bounty targets, NFL says

Then-Vikings coach Brad Childress didn't have any problem accusing the New Orleans Saints of taking cheap shots at quarterback Brett Favre in the NFC Championship Game in 2010 - more than half a year after the fact.

"I understand a quarterback's going to get hit. People are going to get hit," Childress said in September of that year, in the days leading up to the 2010 season-opening rematch between the two teams. "It's football. I don't have any illusions about that.

"What I hate to see are the late hits or attempts to hurt anybody. I don't think there's a place for that in the game."

But now that the NFL has accused the Saints of taking out bounties on a number of players over the years, including Favre in that playoff game, Childress reportedly didn't want to rip the Saints or offer an I-told-you-so.

The new Cleveland Browns offensive coordinator reportedly told FOXSportsOhio.com, in a story posted Monday, that Bountygate is "a league matter" and doesn't want to look back - even though he had addressed it entering the 2010 season.

"I just wasn't happy with the result of the game," Childress told FOXSportsOhio in a phone interview. "The league dealt with it. They did what they needed to do."

Vikings defensive end Jared Allen, speaking at a banquet Saturday in Kansas City, chose not to rip into the Saints, either, according to a Kansas City Star story posted over the weekend, but didn't condone the idea of bounties.

"If you're paying people to injure people, that's not the kind of league this is," Allen said. "If something illegal happened, the league will deal with it. It doesn't change the fact we lost the game. It doesn't change the fact they got a Super Bowl ring."

Looking back at all the hits on Favre during that game - Favre's ankle was seriously injured on one play - Allen said now it makes sense that there was a bounty. New Orleans linebacker Jonathan Vilma allegedly offered $10,000 to any Saint who knocked Favre out of the game.

"Brett was on fire that year," Allen said, according to the Star.

"If I (played for New Orleans and) could have got him out of the game, I would have tried, too. But legally, obviously."

[Scott Campbell]

In general I'm against bounties. But Greg Williams deserves a community service award for what they did to Favre.

[mraynrand]

Favre happy 'the truth comes out' on Saints' practices

• By Dan Hanzus NFL.com
• Updated: March 5, 2012 at 07:17 p.m.

• • By Dan Hanzus NFL.com

Brett Favre wasn't "pissed" when Gregg Williams' illegal "bounty" program was exposed by the NFL, but he's happy the bill has come due for the Saints.

The league's two-year investigation yielded a direct connection to Favre by way of Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma, who allegedly offered $10,000 to any player who could knock the quarterback -- then with the Vikings -- out of the NFC Championship Game in January 2010.

"Now the truth comes out. That's good. But that's football," Favre told Sports Illustrated while planting soybeans at his farm in Mississippi.

"The only thing that really pisses me off about the whole thing is we lost the game. That's the thing about that day that still bothers me. And that's the way it goes. If they wanted me to testify in court about this, they'd be calling the wrong guy."

Favre took a nasty beating in the 31-28 overtime loss, and the NFL's findings help explain why.

"It's football. I don't think anything less of those guys," Favre said.

"I would have loved to play with Vilma. Hell of a player. I've got a lot of respect for Gregg Williams. He's a great coach. I'm not going to make a big deal about it.

Saints' 'bounty' program exposed

Latest news:
» League summary details Saints' evasiveness
» SI: Hargrove proclaimed, 'Favre is done!'
» Darlington: An uncertain future for Saints
» Debate: What is proper punishment in scandal?
» Williams, NFL meet to discuss 'bounty' system
» Lombardi: Goodell faces biggest verdict yet
» Legal action not likely in 'bounty' scandal
» Williams told Saints to 'knock 'em ... out'
» Brooks: 'Pay for performance' is commonplace

"In all honesty, there's a bounty of some kind on you on every play," Favre continued.

"Now, in that game there were some plays that, I don't want to say were odd, but I'd throw the ball and whack, on every play. Hand it off, whack. Over and over. Some were so blatant. I hand the ball to Percy Harvin early and got drilled right in the chin. They flagged that one at least."

Favre is referring to a hit early in the game in which New Orleans defensive lineman Bobby McCray popped the quarterback in the chin. The play drew a 15-yard unnecessary-roughness penalty and an eventual fine. Favre also was subjected to a pile-driving tackle by defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove (another 15-yard foul and fine) and a brutal high-low takedown by McCray and defensive tackle Remi Ayodele (which drew, almost inexplicably, no flag).

Favre believed he broke his ankle on the high-low play. "I felt a lot of crunching in there," he said.

"I've always been friends with (former Saints safety) Darren Sharper, and he came in a couple times and popped me hard," Favre told King about his former Packers teammate.

"I remember saying, 'What THE hell you doing, Sharp?' I felt there should have been more calls against the Saints. I thought some of their guys should have been fined more."

If it's any consolation to Favre, the Saints undoubtedly will get those fines now. And that might be just the start of it.

Thank God they stopped the interview. Let Favre talk long enough, and eventually he's going to identify himself as the second gunman on the grassy knoll.

[Freak Out]

Favre, Woody and SC.....the three amigos ride again.

[Pugger]

Looking back its a wonder the Saints didn't try to knock out Rodgers in the first game last season.

[smuggler]

They probably did try, only to fail.

[woodbuck27]

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/bfyv6?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=minnesota-vikings

Hit on Vikings' Brett Favre not bounty-related, ex-Saint Anthony Hargrove says

Posted: 03/09/2012 12:01:00 AM CST
March 9, 2012 3:26 PM GMT Updated: 03/09/2012 09:26:21 AM CST




FILE - This Jan. 24, 2010, file photo shows Minnesota Vikings quarterback Brett Favre (4) being hit by New Orleans Saints linebacker Scott Fujita (55) and Anthony Hargrove during the fourth quarter of the NFC Championship NFL football game in New Orleans. (Assoicated Press: Mark Humphrey, FILE)

Former New Orleans Saints defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove said Thursday that a late hit on Minnesota Vikings quarterback Brett Favre was a mistake, but not connected with the bounty issue.

Hargrove released a statement to SI.com following up on a Sports Illustrated article that noted Hargrove's rough play and tough talk in the NFC championship game following the 2009 season.

Hargrove, who was fined $5,000 for a late hit on Favre and reportedly celebrated after Favre sustained a sprained ankle, said both the hit and his comments were mistakes but were unconnected with the bounty issue.

A recent Sports Illustrated story said Hargrove was overheard saying, "Favre is out of the game! Favre is done! Favre is done!" after Favre suffered a sprained ankle in the Vikings' overtime loss.

In Hargrove's statement posted on SI.com, Hargrove said: "(I)n regards to my comments that have been talked about where I say that Favre is done, I readily agree that it sounds bad in retrospect. A lot of things look bad when we look back and realize how they sound....But did I personally want Favre INJURED? Absolutely and categorically NO!" Hargrove continued, "I have made many mistakes in my life and have paid dearly for some of them, and the late hit and the comments were both mistakes, in my opinion. But players all over the league do the same thing every Sunday, make late hits and say stupid things. But I can say with absolute certainty that neither the late hit nor the comment have anything whatsoever to do with the issue being so hotly discussed in the media."

An NFL investigation last week revealed Gregg Williams ran a bounty pool of up to $50,000 during his three seasons as Saints defensive coordinator. The money would be used to reward Saints players for knocking targeted opponents out of games.

The league is investigating whether Williams, now the St. Louis Rams' defensive coordinator, ran similar schemes at his previous stops, including Buffalo.

Saints coach Sean Payton and general manager Mickey Loomis have apologized and accepted the blame for rule violations that took place in New Orleans, while vowing that it will never happen again. The league investigation found that Payton, though not directly involved in the bounty pool, was aware of it but did nothing to stop it.

[woodbuck27]

Rams expect to learn Gregg Williams’ fate this week

Posted by Mike Florio on March 11, 2012, 6:09 PM EDT
Getty Images Peyton’s next place of employment has eclipsed, for now, the Saints’ bounty system as the NFL’s top story. That could change once Commissioner Roger Goodell metes out discipline to those involved in the cash-for-crippling conspiracy.

Jim Thomas of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports that the Rams expect to learn the fate of defensive coordinator Gregg Williams this week. Unless Goodell plans to hand out punishment in piecemeal fashion, this means that all of the other various sanctions on folks like Saints coach Sean Payton and G.M. Mickey Loomis and the Saints organization itself will come out this week, too.

As to Williams, we’ve heard that there’s support within the league for a lifetime ban.

There’s also concern that a banishment would not survive a legal challenge under the same antitrust laws on which the players relied a year ago today, after shutting down the union and wiping out the league’s multi-employer labor exemption. In something closer to English, the NFL consists of 32 separate businesses, and if they band together and refuse to employ Gregg Williams, the NFL could be violated the antitrust laws.

That’s why the end result could be a lengthy suspension (one year or more), and a termination of employment by the Rams, for cause. (Firing Williams for cause would cut off his right to pay. His contract undoubtedly contains a provision mandating that any legal challenges be resolved via arbitration. Arbitration conducted by the league office.)
Then, if no NFL team ever hires him again, he essentially has been banned for life, without being banned for life.

As one league source explained it to PFT recently, the only flaw in this approach is that one of Williams’ friends in the coaching profession may hire him several years down the road, after this incident becomes a faded memory. Thus, the only way to truly ban Williams for life may be to indeed ban him for life.

It’s unknown at this point whether the NFL will go that far. Combining the three-year use of a bounty system in New Orleans with consistent and repeated lies to the NFL about the use of the bounty system with, quite possibly, further falsehoods about the use of bounty systems with prior teams, ending Williams’ NFL career could be the best way to ensure that no one uses bounties again — and that anyone caught breaking the rules in the future won’t deny it until backed into a corner with irrefutable proof.

The range of penalties for Payton and Loomis is far less clear. We’re told that Goodell will be careful not to make the Saints non-competitive, even though there’s a belief in some circles that Loomis deserves as harsh a punishment as Williams. As to Payton, a short suspension may be rendered meaningless, unless the league plans to monitor his whereabouts and communication habits around the clock.

For any suspension less than a year, he’ll be able at a minimum to work on game plans in which he’ll be involved after the suspension.

[woodbuck27]

Brees says Saints don’t have a “locker room full of hit men”

Posted by Michael David Smith on March 14, 2012, 12:39 PM EDT
Getty Images

Saints quarterback Drew Brees has previously defended himself as knowing nothing about the team’s system of bounties. Now Brees is also offering a defense of his teammates.

On the Dan Patrick Show, Brees said that he doesn’t think his defensive teammates are the bad guys they’ve been portrayed as in some quarters.

“The whole thing is very disappointing and certainly alarming,” Brees said. “The thing that I want to make people know is I think the perception is we’ve got this locker room full of hit men. And that’s not the case at all.”

However, if Brees didn’t know anything about the bounty program then he also wouldn’t know what the case really is with his defensive teammates. And Brees acknowledges that bounties are wrong and that the NFL needs to put them out of existence.

“For a lot of us this was just as shocking as it was embarrassing,” Brees said. “There’s no place for that in our sport or any sport.”

But there was a place for it in the Saints’ locker room for three years.