Hargrove is locked up

[wist43]

If you look at the number of defensive linemen kept last year - what, six? - and you consider that three of them are really below average (Wynn, Wilson, and Green, despite his heroics of the year before) - then you see that half the players at a given position group are poor. That's probably the least talented position group on the team.

Thus Hargrove - if he's available - appears to upgrade the group. Sure sounds like he's better than the three mentioned above.

Wist knows Mario Williams, and he's no Mario Williams, but he's no CJ Wilson, either.

I rate Hargrove about the same as Wilson, Wynn, and Green.

Combine our dismal DL, with a very pedestrian LB'ing corp, and you have the 32nd ranked defense in a 32 team league.

Ted's dart hit the bulls eye when he drafted Raji and Matthews, but has all but whiffed on every other front seven player he has brought in... poor drafting eventually catches up to anyone, even if your mantra is "draft, draft, draft, develop, develop, develop".

[sharpe1027]

I rate Hargrove about the same as Wilson, Wynn, and Green.

Maybe if you combine the results from all three. Maybe. Hargrove already has 19 sacks in his career.

Career:
CJ Wilson: 1
Wynn: 4
Green: 1
Total: 6

The combination of Wilson, Wynn, and Green might never reach 19 sacks combined for their entire careers.

[HarveyWallbangers]

There you go, wist. We aren't the only optimistic ones.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth

We've reached the end of the third week in NFL free agency, a time when teams typically shift their gaze toward role players who project as limited contributors for the upcoming season. I think the Green Bay Packers' acquisition of defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove has the potential to exceed those parameters.

...

I won't try to predict what's in store for the Packers and Hargrove, but most March 29 signings don't have the kind of potential that this one brings. Let's see where this goes.

[Joemailman]

Ted Thompson is 'clearly' growing as OUR GM. I'm so pleased he's addressed our need for a pass rusher in Free Agency.

Wat to go Ted Thompson. Your trying.

GO PACK GO !

You mean he built a Super Bowl championship team without even trying? Dude is more awesome than I thought.

[KYPack]

TT has played in the street FA game from time to time.

He one hard and fast rule.

A street FA has to SHINE to get a roster spot.

TT doesn't want to take practice reps from a kid.

A vet FA must be better by a signigicant margin or the GBP lets him go.

[pbmax]

I rate Hargrove about the same as Wilson, Wynn, and Green.

Combine our dismal DL, with a very pedestrian LB'ing corp, and you have the 32nd ranked defense in a 32 team league.

Ted's dart hit the bulls eye when he drafted Raji and Matthews, but has all but whiffed on every other front seven player he has brought in... poor drafting eventually catches up to anyone, even if your mantra is "draft, draft, draft, develop, develop, develop".

C'mon. So your case is that part timers Cullen Jenkins, Brandon Chillar and Nick Barnett are the difference between the second best and worst defense in the league?

Not to mention that the team yielded the 19th most points with the league's most explosive offense. So it is hardly the worst defense in football. Only the NFL's PR arm think yardage is the best way to measure the effectiveness of a unit.

[wist43]

C'mon. So your case is that part timers Cullen Jenkins, Brandon Chillar and Nick Barnett are the difference between the second best and worst defense in the league?

Not to mention that the team yielded the 19th most points with the league's most explosive offense. So it is hardly the worst defense in football. Only the NFL's PR arm think yardage is the best way to measure the effectiveness of a unit.

I don't think yards are the best measure of a defense - it's all about pressure, sacks, and turnovers... and yes, Jenkins was that important, b/c he at least presented a pass rush threat from the side opposite Matthews.

Without that threat on the other side I think the results speak for themselves - the Packers couldn't generate any pass rush at all, and the secondary was savaged by QB's who were makin' babies and doin' their taxes while relaxing in the pocket.

TT thought Neal would fill Jenkins spikes - wrong; he thought Wilson and/or Wynn would develop - wrong; and I can't begin to fathom what he was thinking about the LB'ing corp - whatever it was/is, it's wrong.

We'll see after the draft... hopefully TT will realize his defense is completely dead, and will take steps to shore it up, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Deputy Nutz]

Well, I tell ya what, if Thompson didn't pick up a free agent, he had too many holes on defense to fill through the draft alone. No chance in getting a starting caliber defensive end, an starting caliber outside linebacker, and a starting caliber free safety in this years draft. Not to mention the fact that even after drafting two offensive tackles in the first rounds of the last two drafts the Packers still have personell problems at left tackle.

I am not saying that Thompson went on tilt, but what I am saying is this move needed to be made to secure any hope for the Packers to go deep into the 2012 playoffs. Hargrove isn't special, or all that dynamic, but he is going to be a solid starter on the end and that is better than what they had. His value will be in his ability to hold the point on the edge, and free up the OLb and MLb on that side.

I give credit to Thompson for doing what he is supposed to do when a team has a gapping hole. filling it.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Wilson, Neal, and Wynn haven't worked out yet. On the other hand, guys like T.J. Lang, Josh Sitton, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Jermichael Finley, Tramon Williams, and Desmond Bishop have. It ain't always perfect, but if you are good at drafting and developing, it's a better modus operandi than going hog wild after other team's overpriced UFAs. So far, TT has missed on his DE prospects. Maybe that's why he's looking at UFAs at that position now.

Let's be real. We weren't going to get Mario Williams. He likely would not have wanted to play in a 3-4 again, and he wasn't going to help at RDE anyways.

Here are the other top rated UFA DEs:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82776cb3/article/positionbyposition-look-at-nfls-top-free-agents-in-2012

Paul Soliai: The Dolphins nose tackle is a solid player who could get snapped up quickly by a team like Kansas City, which has cap space to burn and could use a big plugger like Soliai.

Red Bryant: A combo end-tackle, Bryant is a huge part of a nice defensive front in Seattle. He is a very good player few people recognize.

John Abraham: Abraham will be 34 when the season starts and he's primarily a situational pass rusher, but he's a good one. The Falcons will see what the market dictates then come at him if the price isn't too high. Abraham's salary hopes could limit his options.

Jason Jones: The Titans defensive end/tackle will only be 26 when the season starts, and quickly he's developed into a solid player who could earn a surprisingly nice payday on the open market.

Any of them float your boat? Probably not. You'd be saying the same things about them if we signed one of those guys that you are saying about Hargrove. And some of those guys got contracts that would be big enough to eat into the pot that guys like Rodgers, Matthews, Raji, and Jennings will be eating out of.

[HarveyWallbangers]

That was meant to followup Wist's post, but Nutz got into between us.

[sharpe1027]

That was meant to followup Wist's post, but Nutz got into between us.

Sounds a little too personal for me.

[Freak Out]

That was meant to followup Wist's post, but Nutz got into between us.

Nothing like a Nutz sandwich for lunch.

[Old School]

I think TT is positioning himself to trade up below 20 to draft an impact player. By building some depth in the FA market, a couple of his 12 draft picks will be expendable. Plus the pedestrian group at DL and ROLB must recognize they are in a fight for their lives. If even one of them is made to take his play up a notch or two, these moves by TT would pay a big dividend.

[pbmax]

Well, I tell ya what, if Thompson didn't pick up a free agent, he had too many holes on defense to fill through the draft alone. No chance in getting a starting caliber defensive end, an starting caliber outside linebacker, and a starting caliber free safety in this years draft. Not to mention the fact that even after drafting two offensive tackles in the first rounds of the last two drafts the Packers still have personell problems at left tackle.

I am not saying that Thompson went on tilt, but what I am saying is this move needed to be made to secure any hope for the Packers to go deep into the 2012 playoffs. Hargrove isn't special, or all that dynamic, but he is going to be a solid starter on the end and that is better than what they had. His value will be in his ability to hold the point on the edge, and free up the OLb and MLb on that side.

I give credit to Thompson for doing what he is supposed to do when a team has a gapping hole. filling it.

I could be wrong but I don't see Hargrove starting at DE in base. Every down of nickel pass rush? Yes. I confess I have only seen him in a couple games (all in 2009 with the Saints) but my vague impression is that he is a less robust Jenkins with perhaps more speed (at least he did early in career). He seems to be 4-3 DE or 3 tech DT. Which makes him a good match for nickel pass rush.

I could be wrong, he told Seifert he was ready to play run downs head up and by the book, but McGinn thinks he would be out of place full time at 5 tech as well.

I would hope they can conjure a better preformance in base at DE with someone else and keep Hargrove fresh for pass rush exclusively or to rotate in as relief.

[pbmax]

I don't think yards are the best measure of a defense - it's all about pressure, sacks, and turnovers... and yes, Jenkins was that important, b/c he at least presented a pass rush threat from the side opposite Matthews.

Without that threat on the other side I think the results speak for themselves - the Packers couldn't generate any pass rush at all, and the secondary was savaged by QB's who were makin' babies and doin' their taxes while relaxing in the pocket.

TT thought Neal would fill Jenkins spikes - wrong; he thought Wilson and/or Wynn would develop - wrong; and I can't begin to fathom what he was thinking about the LB'ing corp - whatever it was/is, it's wrong.

We'll see after the draft... hopefully TT will realize his defense is completely dead, and will take steps to shore it up, but I'm not holding my breath.

I think the best defenses yield the fewest points per possession and the Packers were just under dead average, despite pitiful pass D and pass rush. Their successes mainly came from turnovers. A modicum of improvement in the rush and the DBs and its back into the top ten if:

Collins or someone capable can be found for safety. And Raji plays the run as well as he did in the Giants game (or they move Pickett back there).

Jenkins loss was felt, but he wasn't the entire difference between the 19th ranked defense and the 2nd.