Hargrove is locked up

[HarveyWallbangers]

I could be wrong but I don't see Hargrove starting at DE in base. Every down of nickel pass rush? Yes. I confess I have only seen him in a couple games (all in 2009 with the Saints) but my vague impression is that he is a less robust Jenkins with perhaps more speed (at least he did early in career). He seems to be 4-3 DE or 3 tech DT. Which makes him a good match for nickel pass rush.

I could be wrong, he told Seifert he was ready to play run downs head up and by the book, but McGinn thinks he would be out of place full time at 5 tech as well.

I would hope they can conjure a better preformance in base at DE with someone else and keep Hargrove fresh for pass rush exclusively or to rotate in as relief.

I think you're right. From the GBPG:

Listed at 6-foot-3 and 272 pounds, Hargrove could play end in the 3-4 or as an inside rusher in subpackages. A scout for an AFC team said last week he could envision Hargrove as an effective inside rusher in the Packers’ nickel package, a role Cullen Jenkins played in 2010 before he signed with the Philadelphia Eagles.

Were the DEs bad on run defense? For the life of me, thinking back to last year, I can't remember if they were a big weakness in run defense. I'm just wondering if Wilson or Wynn could be alright on run downs and then bring Hargrove in the nickel. I'm still holding out hope that Wilson can develop into a decent player. Sometimes, it takes that third year for the lightbulb to go off. Not counting on Wynn for much.

[Lurker64]

Hargrove is like a vastly improved Jarius Wynn. It's not great, but it's something. We had to play Wynn a lot last year, now we can play a guy who's a lot better than Wynn but plays similarly.

Were the DEs bad on run defense? For the life of me, thinking back to last year, I can't remember if they were a big weakness in run defense. I'm just wondering if Wilson or Wynn could be alright on run downs and then bring Hargrove in the nickel. I'm still holding out hope that Wilson can develop into a decent player. Sometimes, it takes that third year for the lightbulb to go off. Not counting on Wynn for much.

Pretty much everybody on the DL except Pickett was horrible on rush D last season.

[pbmax]

Were the DEs bad on run defense? For the life of me, thinking back to last year, I can't remember if they were a big weakness in run defense. I'm just wondering if Wilson or Wynn could be alright on run downs and then bring Hargrove in the nickel. I'm still holding out hope that Wilson can develop into a decent player. Sometimes, it takes that third year for the lightbulb to go off. Not counting on Wynn for much.

Nutz hit on a couple of good examples (esp. versus KC but in other late season games as well) where the RDE was so easily blocked by a single man that the only thing between the RB and both outside gaps was Walden. And he was so easily sucked in and turned, that it left the whole sideline open for the RB.

The real troubling part was that neither Bishop nor Hawk could get outside. Nutz thought the DE getting blasted was hurting them here as someone got a free shot at them. I think this would either need to be a center/guard or a FB. So its possible Raji wasn't helping either. He was getting sideways a ton in the run game until the Giants game, when he was one of the few on D to play well.

If Raji plays like that next year, hello All-Pro.

[gbgary]

doin' the bird!

https://vodpod.com/watch/511656-morris-day-the-time-the-bird

[Bretsky]

I rate Hargrove about the same as Wilson, Wynn, and Green.

Combine our dismal DL, with a very pedestrian LB'ing corp, and you have the 32nd ranked defense in a 32 team league.

Ted's dart hit the bulls eye when he drafted Raji and Matthews, but has all but whiffed on every other front seven player he has brought in... poor drafting eventually catches up to anyone, even if your mantra is "draft, draft, draft, develop, develop, develop".

My note to Wist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1NwW3GCn7k

COME ON MAN


When you're alternating to dating the two ugliest girls in the school, updating to an average one is an improrvement.

Wynn and Wilson played like Gas Station Attendants last year; we found Roell Preston there and he played at a much higher level years ago. COME ON MAN

At his worst, Hargrove is as good as these chumps

COME ON MAN !!!

[wist43]

My note to Wist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1NwW3GCn7k

COME ON MAN


When you're alternating to dating the two ugliest girls in the school, updating to an average one is an improrvement.

Wynn and Wilson played like Gas Station Attendants last year; we found Roell Preston there and he played at a much higher level years ago. COME ON MAN

At his worst, Hargrove is as good as these chumps

COME ON MAN !!!

Hargrove is a body... and when it comes to the defensive line we certainly need more bodies. I would rather have had Langford; or perhaps Wimbley vs. Saturday and Hargrove.

Pass rushers cost money; and coming out of college, big-time pass rush prospects are going to cost you draft picks. Now I'll grant you that TT's hands are tied somewhat with the cap, so improving our pass rush thru FA is understandably less likely. My fear however, is that TT will not be agressive in moving around in the draft to get the guys he likes to shore up the front seven.

Rather, Ted is just as likely to sit at his picks and take the BPA on his board, regardless of position; while a front seven player that he valued worthy of picking that high is plucked off the board 5 picks earlier. I'm sure TT is going to come out of the draft with at least 1 front seven player in the first 3 picks; but if that is all he does in the offseason, in terms shoring up the front seven, then I would fully expect next season to be a repeat of 2011 - only without the 15 wins.

Someone mentioned Bishop... he's a decent player, but he's not a difference maker; and of course there is Matthews, Raji, and Pickett. Adding Hargrove and 1 relatively high pick to that mix simply isn't going to be enough to make much of difference. It will help of course, but our front seven - which by my way of thinking is really a group of about 13-14 guys - out of which we would then have 5 decent players??

That's a long row to hoe.

[Fritz]

"When you're alternating to dating the two ugliest girls in the school, updating to an average one is an improrvement."

And when you get to middle age, and you look at a group of high school girls, even the average-looking one is still an 18 year old chick...

If middle-aged men were put into 17 or 18 year old boys' bodies, the average-looking girls in school would be very, very popular.

I am going to try to pretend that the above comments are a complex analogy to the Hargrove signing.

[Pugger]

Maybe if you combine the results from all three. Maybe. Hargrove already has 19 sacks in his career.

Career:
CJ Wilson: 1
Wynn: 4
Green: 1
Total: 6

The combination of Wilson, Wynn, and Green might never reach 19 sacks combined for their entire careers.

This.

[Pugger]

Nothing like a Nutz sandwich for lunch.

[Patler]

Maybe if you combine the results from all three. Maybe. Hargrove already has 19 sacks in his career.

Career:
CJ Wilson: 1
Wynn: 4
Green: 1
Total: 6

The combination of Wilson, Wynn, and Green might never reach 19 sacks combined for their entire careers.

You can throw Neal and Pickett into that as well. Wilson, Wynn, Green, Neal and Pickett have played 314 games, and have a combined 17 sacks. with Pickett having 9.5 of them in 162 games. Hargrove has played 102 games, and he has 19.5 sacks.

The "just a guy" category covers a huge range of NFL players. Hargrove may be "just a guy", but as a pass rusher he is a top level "just a guy" and four of the five guys mentioned above are at the bottom level as pass rushers; so, while Hargrove is by no means an elite player in any sense, for what ailed the Packers last year he might still be a significant upgrade. Hargrove is a lot closer to being able to do what Jenkins did than anyone else currently on the roster.

It would be fantastic if TT could identify the single most significant weakness on the team, and land a player with all-pro ability to perform it. But in reality, that doesn't happen very often. On the other hand, if you can step up a couple notches with 2, 3 or 4 players the combined effect can be enough to make a difference.

[woodbuck27]

Big (and surprised) fan of this signing. One last note, our o is good enough that having him suspended the first 2 - 6 games will not keep us out of the playoffs. Its the home stretch we need him for.

He is as good or better than Jenkins obaloo 39.

** http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/po...e-a-unique-fit



"I won't try to predict what's in store for the Packers and Hargrove, but most March 29 signings don't have the kind of potential that this one brings. Let's see where this goes." Fr. **

[RashanGary]

Patler,

Throw Howard Green Mike Neal in that mix, and every one of our lineman combined (outside of Raji) has less career sacks than Hargrove.


Our best DL pass rusher (BY FAR) is BJ Raji, and he's on pace to have similar career sack numbers to Anthony Hargrove.


To Wist's credit, our pass rush was pathetic. On the flip side, he's so dead set on his "sky is falling" campaign, he's missed the boat here. We got better. Cullen Jenkins is no playmaker. Hargrove is a similar player. He's the 3rd guy on our front 7 who can get there. He doesn't have to be the best in the league to make us better. He has to be better than what we have, and that he is.

[woodbuck27]

Just for you guys though... I will break into eternally optimistic mode - woo!!! hoo!!!

We signed a FA

(-: X 10 TT signed THREE (3) Free Agents.

Phenomenol achievements can happen. I'd like to see the MATH on how Ted Thompson managed it considering our 'CAP' space.

When it was reported that we were about $5.4 M$ under the CAP and we got to about $7 M$ adding the $1.6 M$ from the Dallas and Washington CAP Violatation Issue.

Did the $5.4 M$ Figure include the exclusion of or 'off the books numbers on Bush, Wells and Grant etc. ??

Can any member post the facts RE: this question?

Thanks.

[woodbuck27]

Hargrove is a body... and when it comes to the defensive line we certainly need more bodies. I would rather have had Langford; or perhaps Wimbley vs. Saturday and Hargrove.

Pass rushers cost money; and coming out of college, big-time pass rush prospects are going to cost you draft picks. Now I'll grant you that TT's hands are tied somewhat with the cap, so improving our pass rush thru FA is understandably less likely. My fear however, is that TT will not be agressive in moving around in the draft to get the guys he likes to shore up the front seven.

Rather, Ted is just as likely to sit at his picks and take the BPA on his board, regardless of position; while a front seven player that he valued worthy of picking that high is plucked off the board 5 picks earlier. I'm sure TT is going to come out of the draft with at least 1 front seven player in the first 3 picks; but if that is all he does in the offseason, in terms shoring up the front seven, then I would fully expect next season to be a repeat of 2011 - only without the 15 wins.

Someone mentioned Bishop... he's a decent player, but he's not a difference maker; and of course there is Matthews, Raji, and Pickett. Adding Hargrove and 1 relatively high pick to that mix simply isn't going to be enough to make much of difference. It will help of course, but our front seven - which by my way of thinking is really a group of about 13-14 guys - out of which we would then have 5 decent players??

That's a long row to hoe.

You defend your position very well.

[sheepshead]

Peter King tweeted last night when asked who is favorites are for next year in the NFL. He said its too early to say but that Dom Capers will have a heck of a comeback year. For what it's worth.