Hargrove is locked up

[pbmax]

I'm surprised you put Jenkins in that list. I think his loss was significantly felt. The Pack gambled on Neale to fill the void, and that certainly didn't happen.

Also not sure how you could call Barnett a part timer? He was the most ably replaced of the three, but was a significant part of the defense when here. Do you really feel the team would not have been better with him on it? Don't confuse that with thinking he should not have been traded - it was the right decision, for a couple of reasons, but the loss was still felt.

How does the number of points yielded relate to the offense's performance? Do you mean because team's playing from behind throw more and score more points? I've never really subscribed to that thought process - it makes them more one-dimensional, and more vulnerable.

I think Jenkins is severely overrated if he is credited with the difference between the 2nd ranked defense and 32nd ranked D. And that was the implication of the wist post I was responding to. Jenkins indeed is more important than either Barnett or Chillar. Despite being part time, Jenkins did play well enough to notch 7 sacks in 11 games in 2010.

Barnett I labeled part time because of his injury in 2010 and the fact that his replacement was still on the roster in 2011.

As for points yielded and the offense, the total number of points scored or yielded is affected by opportunity. The Packers offense scored a lot and it scored very quickly. That gives the opposition a large number of possessions. The more possessions, the greater the number of points will be scored.

As for one dimensional offenses, I am not so sure that has as much impact today as it once did, when the run pass ratio was normally heavier on the run. Passing a lot for today's offenses isn't out of the norm. Even so, a one dimensional offense stands a greater chance to score points if it throws more with reasonable efficiency (easy to accomplish vs Pack D in 2011) and overall, a pass first approach will yield more points for good offenses and less points for bad offenses. Its a high variable strategy and the Packers faced enough good offenses in 2011 that were able to make them pay.

This is not to argue that the D was secretly good. Its was bad and seriously dropped off from 2010. But faults went well beyond Jenkins and the fixes are not dramatic. If teh Packers find an interior pass rusher it will definitely help, but if they do not fix other areas (DB, run D) the improvement will not be back to 2010 levels.

[Smidgeon]

I think Jenkins is severely overrated if he is credited with the difference between the 2nd ranked defense and 32nd ranked D. And that was the implication of the wist post I was responding to. Jenkins indeed is more important than either Barnett or Chillar. Despite being part time, Jenkins did play well enough to notch 7 sacks in 11 games in 2010.

Barnett I labeled part time because of his injury in 2010 and the fact that his replacement was still on the roster in 2011.

As for points yielded and the offense, the total number of points scored or yielded is affected by opportunity. The Packers offense scored a lot and it scored very quickly. That the opposition a large number of possessions. The more possessions, the greater the number of points will be scored.

As for one dimensional offenses, I am not so sure that has as much impact today as it once did, when the run pass ratio was normally heavier on the run. Passing a lot for today's offenses isn't out of the norm. Even so, a one dimensional offense stands a greater chance to score points if it throws more with reasonable efficiency (easy to accomplish vs Pack D in 2011) and overall, a pass first approach will yield more points for good offenses and less points for bad offenses. Its a high variable strategy and the Packers faced enough good offenses in 2011 that were able to make them pay.

This is not to argue that the D was secretly good. Its was bad and seriously dropped off from 2010. But faults went well beyond Jenkins and the fixes are not dramatic. If teh Packers find an interior pass rusher it will definitely help, but if they do not fix other areas (DB, run D) the improvement will not be back to 2010 levels.

McCarthy said at some point this week (I think when speaking at the owner's meetings) that his review of film with Capers showed that other teams played them aggressively because of the Packers offense. They felt they had to start aggressive and play that way all the way through just for a chance to keep up. That also contributes in part.

[pbmax]

McCarthy said at some point this week (I think when speaking at the owner's meetings) that his review of film with Capers showed that other teams played them aggressively because of the Packers offense. They felt they had to start aggressive and play that way all the way through just for a chance to keep up. That also contributes in part.

He did. But after that, he also said they couldn't get into that game of trying to match aggressiveness by sub package. Since I doubt he is talking about scaling back the offense, I think he was referring to his comments about too much nickel and sub on defense. It seems contradictory and I cannot say I understand it except that he seemed to anticipate being in base more this year. Since there are times that would seem to be a poor matchup (less pass rush and Wood on outside corner), I am not sure what he wants to accomplish. He never did say what he saw as the disadvantages of sub packages.

[Upnorth]

he is just good enough that teams need tp respect him on the field. He is not a game changer, but his presence will allow Raji and Clay to be game changers once again. That is what we need, it was what Jenkins was for us. Now all we need is a probowl saftey and it is 2010's d all over again.

[mraynrand]

Hells Bells he cant get any worse can he?

[Joemailman]

I'm not a big stat digger, but my recollection is the Packers were atrocious on 3rd down last year. This certainly helps us get off the field on 3rd down. That could be a pretty big help in itself.

Certainly, it's not like adding a probowl caliber 5-tech, but it if you were to compare it to another situational position (say, 3rd CB) it would be like replacing Jarrett Bush (assuming he was your number 3, and we know what that looks like when he is) with a solid veteran nickle back.

I haven't seen one person here jumping with joy, but the general consensus seems that we replaced a glaring (nickle) hole with a player who belongs on the field.

Get off the field one more time in the Giants game, and we might be talking 3-pete right now. The Packers are close and this brings us closer.

Packers were 43% ON 3rd down defensively last year which was 26th. The most glaring thing to me was the inability to get a pass rush even in obvious passing situations. Certainly the loss of Jenkins had something to do with that. Perhaps Hargrove can help there. In addition though I had the sense that the Packers blitzes were less disruptive than they had been in 2010.

[Pugger]

he is just good enough that teams need tp respect him on the field. He is not a game changer, but his presence will allow Raji and Clay to be game changers once again. That is what we need, it was what Jenkins was for us. Now all we need is a probowl saftey and it is 2010's d all over again.

But do we really need a probowl safety? I think a decent pass rush can mask a pedestrian secondary. And if Williams and Shields can return to form we might not be as pedestrian in 2012 as we were in 2011 with some pressure on the QB.

[woodbuck27]

My note to Wist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1NwW3GCn7k

COME ON MAN


When you're alternating to dating the two ugliest girls in the school, updating to an average one is an improrvement.

Wynn and Wilson played like Gas Station Attendants last year; we found Roell Preston there and he played at a much higher level years ago. COME ON MAN

At his worst, Hargrove is as good as these chumps

COME ON MAN !!!

" My note to Wist

** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1NwW3GCn7k " ..... 'B'


** Chris Carter resembling Hines Ward.







Comon' man !

[Bretsky]

I think Jenkins is severely overrated if he is credited with the difference between the 2nd ranked defense and 32nd ranked D. And that was the implication of the wist post I was responding to. Jenkins indeed is more important than either Barnett or Chillar. Despite being part time, Jenkins did play well enough to notch 7 sacks in 11 games in 2010.

Barnett I labeled part time because of his injury in 2010 and the fact that his replacement was still on the roster in 2011.

As for points yielded and the offense, the total number of points scored or yielded is affected by opportunity. The Packers offense scored a lot and it scored very quickly. That gives the opposition a large number of possessions. The more possessions, the greater the number of points will be scored.

As for one dimensional offenses, I am not so sure that has as much impact today as it once did, when the run pass ratio was normally heavier on the run. Passing a lot for today's offenses isn't out of the norm. Even so, a one dimensional offense stands a greater chance to score points if it throws more with reasonable efficiency (easy to accomplish vs Pack D in 2011) and overall, a pass first approach will yield more points for good offenses and less points for bad offenses. Its a high variable strategy and the Packers faced enough good offenses in 2011 that were able to make them pay.

This is not to argue that the D was secretly good. Its was bad and seriously dropped off from 2010. But faults went well beyond Jenkins and the fixes are not dramatic. If teh Packers find an interior pass rusher it will definitely help, but if they do not fix other areas (DB, run D) the improvement will not be back to 2010 levels.

The abilities Jenkins had were severely missed last year and his loss had a negative effect on our defense.
COME ON MAN....................JUST SAY IT
It will feel better; like an addict finally fessing up............come on man !!

[woodbuck27]

I'm not a big stat digger, but my recollection is the Packers were atrocious on 3rd down last year. This certainly helps us get off the field on 3rd down. That could be a pretty big help in itself.

Certainly, it's not like adding a probowl caliber 5-tech, but it if you were to compare it to another situational position (say, 3rd CB) it would be like replacing Jarrett Bush (assuming he was your number 3, and we know what that looks like when he is) with a solid veteran nickle back.

I haven't seen one person here jumping with joy, but the general consensus seems that we replaced a glaring (nickle) hole with a player who belongs on the field.

Get off the field one more time in the Giants game, and we might be talking 3-pete right now. The Packers are close and this brings us closer.

Always 'the eternal optimist' .... backed up.

http://www.nfl.com/player/anthonyhargrove/2505952/profile

Here's what I see:

Anthony Hargrove haS 19.5 Career sacks and 223 Career Tackles ( 55 Assisted ) in an 8 years NFL Career. His best season's 'sack wise' were 2005 RAMS with 6.5 and 2009 SAINTS with 5. Last season with the Seahawks (2011) he recorded 3 Sacks. He'll enter the 2012 season at 29 years of age and will play at a weight of approx. 285 lbs and he's 6'- 3 ". The last season he started a game was 2009.

He's being touted as possibly effective in 'the Nickle' as a third down rushing DE.

We need someone that can drop the QB in first down passing and 5 yards and longer 2nd and 3rd downs. We need a rusher that can take the double team away from Clay Matthews and put this player back on the map as an effective pressure on the QB. Make Clay Matthews effective and positive for our front seven again. Allow Clay Matthews 'a real chance' to get back into the game again.

Is Anthony Hargrove that player? **

Seattle let him walk. TT didn't have the CAP space to sign Anthony Hargrove to much more than the player minumum. So how much of a player does Anthony Hargrove really believe he is?

Are you really very excited about DE Anthony Hargrove... Green Bay Packer?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82769270/article/si-report-saints-hargrove-proclaimed-favre-is-done

"Saints defensive linemen Bobby McCray and Anthony Hargrove accounted for multiple penalties and $25,000 in fines for vicious hits on Favre in that 31-28 overtime win, and, as Favre was helped off the field with a sprained ankle, a fired-up Hargrove jawed with teammates, proclaiming: "Favre is out of the game! Favre is done! Favre is done!" "

Isn't there the possibility he may be suspended if the NFL decides he had a role in the Bounty Scandal.

Now......

Add in the fact that in his last three games he contributed one (1) Tackle and one (1) Assisted Tackle.

Add in this players age. Anthony Hargrove will be 29 Years of age (July 20,2012).

Does this EXCITE YOU?

Did Ted Thompson get this player in signing Anthony Hargrove?

** I assess this isn't likely. I'm 'in final analysis', as excited about this signing as Wist43. It's not getting done IMO in this signing.

Is it even close to helping improve our front seven?? IMO other than to push others to a higher level.

NO!

Now further...add in to your decision the fact of Anthony Hargrove's character record and ' his last chance status ' in term of:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/free-agent-defensive-lineman-anthony-hargrove-agrees-to-deal-with-packers/2012/03/29/gIQAiS1UjS_story.html

"Hargrove has had some trouble with the NFL as well, including a yearlong suspension in 2008 under the league’s substance abuse policy"

Where has Ted Thompson's and the Green Bay Packers past record on signing such players gone to? Inspite of Neals appeals why does TT go anywhere even close to bringing in 'an Anthony Hargrove' to cover anything involving Neals period of a 4 games suspension?

Anthony Hargrove claims he has cleaned up his act and wants to now set an example and in my books that's wonderfu;l but what was it in him that convinced Ted Thompson to go ahead with this risk of a signing?

Personally now...I don't get it.

[sharpe1027]

Does this EXCITE YOU?

Do you think d. wynn is just as good as hargrove? That was one of the main points being discussed.

Answering your question, no. I see very little "excitement" from anyone in this thread. Some posters were happy with the move because he seems better than wynn. None seemed more than cautiously optimistic.

[woodbuck27]

Do you think d. wynn is just as good as hargrove? That was one of the main points being discussed.

Answering your question, no. I see very little "excitement" from anyone in this thread. Some posters were happy with the move because he seems better than wynn. None seemed more than cautiously optimistic.

Then why? did Ted Thompson make this move? Is replacing Wynn with Hargrove smart, in your view?

Was money taken away from ie Donald Driver as reported. To add a questionable player that isn't 'a Green Bay Packer' character player?

Does those two facts send a positive message to the Packer locker room?

Donald Driver....Anthony Hargrove.

[wist43]

Hargrove can be part of a rotation, but he's certainly on the back end of that rotation - he's a body.

Now that we have him, we need to be looking at how we can move him off the roster with a better player - just as we need to be looking to replace Wynn, Wilson, Greene, Walden, Jones, and Zombo.

All of those players were supposed to be contributers last year either as starters or rotation guys. By way of TT's philosophy and the Packers program of draft and develop, at least a couple of those guys should have stepped up and shown something; but that didn't happen - they all flamed out; they all failed; they all proved they couldn't play.

I don't know how you guys can look at that group of 15 or so front seven players we currently have on the roster and think that we're alright there. That is a dead unit, and a lot of those players need to be replaced sooner rather than later.

Once teams caught up to Capers and Raji wore down?? getting the Packers front seven blocked was easy business. Double Matthews and watch everyone else play the dancing bear game, while the QB is texting the cheerleaders. Without a influx of talent - better talent than Anthony Hargrove - we're going to be watching the Packers get ripped apart on defense again next year.

[pbmax]

The abilities Jenkins had were severely missed last year and his loss had a negative effect on our defense.
COME ON MAN....................JUST SAY IT
It will feel better; like an addict finally fessing up............come on man !!

Never.

Yes, he was sorely missed, especially on pass rush. But even to replace him with someone as good would leave other holes I am almost as worried about (runD, DBs and ROLB). While I have been playing Jenkins denier for almost a year and am enjoying the tin foil hat, I am otherwise quite serious about the additional areas of concern on D.

Unlike wist, I think the talent on D showed itself in individual plays last year. But I am most concerned about the play of Raji, who was not as stout as Pickett in the middle. Without that, the gap discipline disappeared. Trgovac is one of the coaches I was most impressed by early but he has his work cut out for him.

[Scott Campbell]

Hargrove can generate a little pressure. And a little pressure is more than we saw last year.