Hargrove is locked up

[woodbuck27]

Hargrove can be part of a rotation, but he's certainly on the back end of that rotation - he's a body.

Now that we have him, we need to be looking at how we can move him off the roster with a better player - just as we need to be looking to replace Wynn, Wilson, Greene, Walden, Jones, and Zombo.

All of those players were supposed to be contributers last year either as starters or rotation guys. By way of TT's philosophy and the Packers program of draft and develop, at least a couple of those guys should have stepped up and shown something; but that didn't happen - they all flamed out; they all failed; they all proved they couldn't play.

I don't know how you guys can look at that group of 15 or so front seven players we currently have on the roster and think that we're alright there. That is a dead unit, and lot of those players need to be replaced sooner rather than later.

Once teams caught up to Capers and Raji wore down?? getting the Packers front seven blocked was easy business. Double Matthews and watch everyone else play the dancing bear game, while the QB is texting the cheerleaders. Without a influx of talent - better talent than Anthony Hargrove - we're going to be watching the Packers get ripped apart on defense again next year.

Add in even if Nick Collins gets the medical approval to go ahead and play. Is MM going to accept the risk or worry as his HC? My guess right now is ...NO! If I'm correct we lost Nick Collins and need a very good Safety to plug that hole .

# 1 CB Charles Woodson is moved to Safety. Who takes his spot effectively? Where is our depth at defensive back?

We needed a much better player out of Free Agency to either assist Clay Matthews (that's NOT Anthony Hargrove) or fill in at Safety or play at a top level in the CB position.

Ted Thompson needed to see this prior to extending TE Jermichael Finley. how many TE's did we have on our roster last season?

He had to see this before bringing Jarrett Bush back.

Instead what we got was:

a) a foul tip

b) a whiff

c) another whiff.

Sorry Packer fans. Ted Thompson struck out !

Sure it appears as if he has changed as he coverd his ass at Center with the Jeff Saturday signing. That's just a maybe! Look at this whole thing at Center in terms of 'the locker room'.

Did we really need CB Jarrett Bush ? I'm aware of his status on ST's.

Anthony Hargrove and help for Clay Matthews ? That's hardley obvious in terms of a positive.

Again the impact of this signing (Anthony Hargrove) on the Packer ' locker room '?

Did Donald Driver sacrifice his money so Ted Thompson could bring Anthony Hargrove in?

[woodbuck27]

Sat. March 30, 2012 - 10:52 AM EDT

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/13/the-free-agent-hot-100/

'Only' 24 players remain NOT signed on this TOP 100 List. Of those 24 players, the following remain unsigned:

7. Ravens cornerback Lardarius Webb (RFA).

50. Seahawks linebacker David Hawthorne.

52. Redskins linebacker London Fletcher.

58. Patriots defensive end Andre Carter.

59. Jaguars defensive end Matt Roth.

63. Saints defensive tackle Aubrayo Franklin.

69. 49ers safety Reggie Smith.

70. Jets safety Jim Leonhard.

75. Eagles defensive tackle Trevor Laws.

86. Raiders defensive end Jarvis Moss.

89. Redskins safety O.J. Atogwe.

99. Bears defensive tackle Amobi Okoye.

Note: DE Anthony Hargrove wasn't on this particular TOP 100 List.

[RashanGary]

Eh. . . . Potato, Pot-ah-to

My moneys on the 2012 Packer D.

[pbmax]

Add in even if Nick Collins gets the medical approval to go ahead and play. Is MM going to accept the risk or worry as his HC? My guess right now is ...NO! If I'm correct we lost Nick Collins and need a very good Safety to plug that hole .

# 1 CB Charles Woodson is moved to Safety. Who takes his spot effectively? Where is our depth at defensive back?

We needed a much better player out of Free Agency to either assist Clay Matthews (that's NOT Anthony Hargrove) or fill in at Safety or play at a top level in the CB position.

Ted Thompson needed to see this prior to extending TE Jermichael Finley. how many TE's did we have on our roster last season?

He had to see this before bringing Jarrett Bush back.

Not bringing Jermichael Finley back so you can sign a FA is a poor idea. Actually, poor doesn't cover it. Catastrophic would be better. I can count the number of better players in Free Agency on one hand and except for Mario Williams, none of them play D line in a position the Packers need. And Williams did not want to be a 3-4 OLB anymore than Kampman wanted to be a 3-4 OLB. So you would have let Finley walk for a far lesser player at a premium market price. And that player would have not justified that expense, because they would have been far closer to Hargrove than Williams in talent.

How many TEs did the Packers have on the roster? 5. The second best TE is currently recovering from knee surgery and may not be ready to practice at all prior to the season. Crabtree is a good blocker and a great Twitter follow but offers little in the passing game. DJ Williams did next to nothing in his rookie year and Taylor was the same. Finley is the only healthy NFL caliber pass catcher in the group until DJ Williams develops.

Wood, you keep posting like Thompson will find an answer in FA, like eventually you will find that puzzle piece that completes the outer edge of the picture. What if that piece does not exist in a given FA class? And what happens to talent level of the team and your cap situation when you overpay for the lesser talent?

Sometimes its better to do nothing in that case. Doing nothing in FA got the Packers a Super Bowl in 2010. Doing just a little might be enough to return them there in 2012.

[Scott Campbell]

It wouldn't be March without Woody crying about Ted ruining the upcoming season.

[RashanGary]

Right, and that same front 7, the one that won the SB by playing great defense all year with the same front 7 (except Jenkins) is all of a sudden the worst in the league and we're doomed unless we replace damn near all of them. . . . .


Come on, man.

People are way to quick to panic. Why not wait and see how the season progresses before we go diving off any bridges.

[woodbuck27]

Eh. . . . Potato, Pot-ah-to

My moneys on the 2012 Packer D.

Po ta toe ... as in...... Potatoes gratiné

I'm pullin' for you to win that bet JH. I do NOT want to be correct here. It's just my analysis of the move by Ted Thompson.

I hope he made a good signing.

[woodbuck27]

Right, and that same front 7, the one that won the SB by playing great defense all year with the same front 7 (except Jenkins) is all of a sudden the worst in the league and we're doomed unless we replace damn near all of them. . . . .


Come on, man.

People are way to quick to panic. Why not wait and see how the season progresses before we go diving off any bridges.

JH noone's panicing 'noone's going to dive off any bridge'.

We're just discussing the options that TT had given the condition of our 'D' at season's end and the moves that TT made since then.

Personally and 'just now reading' pbmax's response. Specifically, RE: extending TE Jermichael Finley as in pbmax's view there was no equivalent value available in Free Agency.

Did Ted Thompson have better options?

In order to come to a firm conclusion. We need to look at what the Packers CAP space was at the start of the FA period and consider the money that would have been added. Not resigning Jermichael Finley to a new contract; not bringing back CB/St Jarrett Bush and releasing all the deadwood.

Why carry a load of TC bodies when we might have shored up enough money to go out and get a solid defensive upgrade or two in Free Agency?

[woodbuck27]

Not bringing Jermichael Finley back so you can sign a FA is a poor idea. Actually, poor doesn't cover it. Catastrophic would be better. I can count the number of better players in Free Agency on one hand and except for Mario Williams, none of them play D line in a position the Packers need. And Williams did not want to be a 3-4 OLB anymore than Kampman wanted to be a 3-4 OLB. So you would have let Finley walk for a far lesser player at a premium market price. And that player would have not justified that expense, because they would have been far closer to Hargrove than Williams in talent.

How many TEs did the Packers have on the roster? 5. The second best TE is currently recovering from knee surgery and may not be ready to practice at all prior to the season. Crabtree is a good blocker and a great Twitter follow but offers little in the passing game. DJ Williams did next to nothing in his rookie year and Taylor was the same. Finley is the only healthy NFL caliber pass catcher in the group until DJ Williams develops.

Wood, you keep posting like Thompson will find an answer in FA, like eventually you will find that puzzle piece that completes the outer edge of the picture. What if that piece does not exist in a given FA class? And what happens to talent level of the team and your cap situation when you overpay for the lesser talent?

Sometimes its better to do nothing in that case. Doing nothing in FA got the Packers a Super Bowl in 2010. Doing just a little might be enough to return them there in 2012.

Hi pbmax.

This is the cost that TT decided to pay for Jermichael Finley:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7604564/source-green-bay-packers-jermichael-finley-reach-two-year-15m-deal

That's $7.5 M$ per season on a 2 year contract. We started the FA period with what? ** $7.2 M$ and add that $7.5 M$ ande just considering that we're at $14.7 M$ under the CAP.

** Based on:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/16/cap-space-as-of-march-15/

Ted Thompson couldn't sign a FA besides Mario Williams with that available CAP space that would upgrade our 'D' in our front seven?

Sign a player or two that would free up Clay Matthews?

I'll request that you look at this question:

Looking at the list of FA's available at this time. Posted on this thread this morning. Is it your opinion that none of these could improve 'the Packers Roster' specifically related to ugrading the defense? I'm asking this in terms of his signing Anthony Hargrove?

If Ted Thompson was set at the start of Free Agency with 12.9 Million dollars under the CAP. Couldn't he have been sincerely interested in any FA that was available at the beginning of Free Agency?

How many Anthony Hargroves could he have signed in theory?

[HarveyWallbangers]

If he's right, Hargrove is more than just a body. He was a good player with the Rams and with the Saints in 2009, and he's still only 28. It's not like he's washed up. We'll see though.

[Upnorth]

Never.

Yes, he was sorely missed, especially on pass rush. But even to replace him with someone as good would leave other holes I am almost as worried about (runD, DBs and ROLB). While I have been playing Jenkins denier for almost a year and am enjoying the tin foil hat, I am otherwise quite serious about the additional areas of concern on D.

Unlike wist, I think the talent on D showed itself in individual plays last year. But I am most concerned about the play of Raji, who was not as stout as Pickett in the middle. Without that, the gap discipline disappeared. Trgovac is one of the coaches I was most impressed by early but he has his work cut out for him.

Our run d started out good last year, but when we had to sell out to try to stop the pass they got worse quick. If only we had Jenkins back...
Our run d will improve with our pass rush, also the db's will get better with our pass rush improving, and ROLB was not a problem with the same players in 2010.
I love me some off season kool-aid.

[gbgary]

Not bringing Jermichael Finley back so you can sign a FA is a poor idea. Actually, poor doesn't cover it. Catastrophic would be better.

this!

[woodbuck27]

If he's right, Hargrove is more than just a body. He was a good player with the Rams and with the Saints in 2009, and he's still only 28. It's not like he's washed up. We'll see though.

We all hope A. Hargrove is a gem; but we're looking at this whole defensive need issue in more certain terms.

Of course we can run to the side and go to reality and submit we're NOT Ted Thompson. That would in terms of the Forum 'just be a cop out'.

We've some good minds here. Let's together... come to a solid conclusion.

[woodbuck27]

this!

Back yourself up with 'your facts' to arrive at that response PLEASE.

Thanks.

[Scott Campbell]

We've some good minds here. Let's together... come to a solid conclusion.

I'm pretty sure we've already come to a conclusion. You hate Ted.