One Exec "Packers Have Much Work To Do"

[woodbuck27]

TT's had crappy luck drafting D linemen. They either get hurt, flame out or they get addicted to cough syrup. When you only have 2 decent D linemen like we did last season it is no wonder our defense sucked if they couldn't get a turnover.

That defensive front also gets mashed by the opponents OL and allows the opponents free'd up OLman to block and set up lanes fpr the opponent to run in and allows the QB al the time it needs to pick apart a frozen linbackers core and a scrambling defensive backfield.

Do the Math.

5 OLman + a TE (not considering RB's and WR's to assist blocking assignments) Vs 'only' 3 DLman on our 3-4 defensive scheme. If our front three cannot occupy 4-5 opponents our entire defensive scheme gets beat. Last season we were without a Cullen Jenkins repalcement.

Maybe Ted Thompson was trying to prove to himself that Cullen Jenkins was expendable. What he should have seen is what many of us saw. That our NT got snuffed out like last months stale cigar. BJ Raji got wasted....worn out. Really pressure'd.

BJ Raji....he's the head of the 3-4 defensive scheme pyramid. He must stand up and occupy two OLman. A difficult task unless you have a 'special NT' and at least a NT that is 'allowed a much needed rest' in games or you'll see again this year what you saw last. So far Ted Thompson has ignored that need going with the status qup and adding some help at DE. That won't be enough. We need to see more.

Ted Thompson will look after that....starting this Thursday April 26.

In Ted Thompson I have faith.

[woodbuck27]

First all we aren't going to even draft a WR and 2nd IF Driver was going to be cut TT would
have done so by now. WR and TE are the two positions you will not see us drafting this weekend IMO.

TT will IMO and analysis draft a WR April 27 or 28.

Do you imagine he'll certainly feel a loyalty to Greg Jennings? Is that Ted Thompson?

[Brandon494]

Wist what are you talking about? TT has drafted just as many pro bowl defensive players as he has offensive players. Your trying to act like just because he drafted Rodgers, Jennings, and Finley on offense he not won't be able to draft guys like Clay, Collins, and Raji? Your making no sense in your argument.

[pbmax]

Enough said. If Ted Thompson ignores our defense in this draft. Any hope of the Packers and a Super Bowl within the next three (3) seasons is merely 'a pipe dream'. Any of you that might point to what the bookies are saying today RE: The Green Bay Packers and 'odds on whatever', to win next years Super Bowl; does not realize how important it is for Ted Thompson to make a considerable effort to contribute real talent to our 'D'.

Woody, the front seven is composed of seven players. Both wist and Lurker make clear that with Thompson in charge, there are 4 former first round picks in those seven players. How many should there be? What pick distribution would cause you to conclude he had addressed the positions?

And the last time you predicted the Packers would never make the Super Bowl with Thompson in charge, that prediction ended up as someone's signature after the 2010 Super Bowl.

[woodbuck27]

You know, Brandon is slowly bringing me over to his side about driver. Before it was "my heart says stay, but my head says leave." The closer we get to the season, the more it looks like he's going to be on our team. That would be nice I think. I don't want to loose him, he's one of my favorite guys and before I was certain we'd loose him. Not so much any more.

As for the DL being the worst in the league, that's garbage. I don't know when packer fans are going to realize this, but we play a 3-4 defense now. The front 3 are not intended to regularly get a pass rush. They're there to stop the run and take up blockers and last year the packers were in the middle of the league for stopping the run. They do have serious holes on the right side of the defense though that need to get filled, but I don't think they were the worst defense in the league. That title goes to the Bucs who gave up 30+ points a game. The packers weren't that much better at 23 points a game, but they were by no means the worst.

The sky is not falling.

I believe you know that it's just this. We all certainly realize that you don't include the words 'loyalty' and 'any Pro team ... choose one' in the same sentence.

I can post a link to a writer in Wisconsin who flat out informs Packer fans that there is definite evidence using common sence that infers that Ted Thompson is a sly fox. That it might even be fair to say he's a lier. For various reasons I don't go there. I maintain that information in my personal archives.

I choose to hope for more from Ted Thompson. I elect that position as I want something real for my favourite Pro team...the Green Bay Packers.

Ted Thompson is the GM of the Green Bay PACKERS. I need him to act responsibly and demonstrate intelligence.

Intelligence has little to do with ego or stubborness. woodbuck27

[woodbuck27]

Wist what are you talking about? TT has drafted just as many pro bowl defensive players as he has offensive players. Your trying to act like just because he drafted Rodgers, Jennings, and Finley on offense he not won't be able to draft guys like Clay, Collins, and Raji? Your making no sense in your argument.

Try to analyze this before you assess that one of the smartest posters here at Packerrats is making 'no sense'. If Wist43 is making 'no sense'. It's then my honest opinion that:

The collective mentality of our Packer home is pretty shabby. IMO that:

Is NOT the case.

Read wist43's efforts ** to help you see **. PLEASE. Thanks... (-:

** Six posts before this one wist43 breaks down Ted Thompson's drafting results. Analyze that please. I'm confident you'll then come around to what wist43 clearly stands by in terms of his frustration and 'a reality check' for all Packer fans to be aware of Sir.

Good Luck with that.

[Patler]

TT's highest pick for the Packers? #5 - a linebacker
His second highest pick? #9 - a D-lineman
His third highest pick? #16 - a D-lineman

Yup, it is pretty obvious that he puts no emphasis or importance on drafting defensive players generally and front seven in particular. All he does is stack up that offense, and when given an opportunity he passes on defensive players.

Had his planning worked and players remained healthy and law-abiding, the D-line should have included:

Pickett - Raji - Harrell (all first round picks, one brought in by FA)
Neal - (a second round pick)
Jolly - (a sixth round pick who had ability much higher than that)

Unfortunately, 60% of his plan did not materialize for whatever reasons.

Had those 5 played up to their capabilities, would we have cared if the sixth guy was Wynn, Wilson, Green or anyone else? Heck, maybe the sixth guy should have been Tollefson in 2011.

Failure of the D-line in 2011 had absolutely nothing to do with a lack of emphasis or commitment by TT. We can argue if it was poor evaluating and/or poor decision making versus bad luck, but an argument that TT ignores the position group is unsupportable.

[pbmax]

Do the Math.

5 OLman + a TE (not considering RB's and WR's to assist blocking assignments) Vs 'only' 3 DLman on our 3-4 defensive scheme. If our front three cannot occupy 4-5 opponents our entire defensive scheme gets beat. Last season we were without a Cullen Jenkins repalcement.

OK, let's do the math. The front seven on D, 3 DL and 4 LBs versus the RB, TE and 5 OL (virtually no one plays a FB, but if they have both FB and TE, then I have a safety, 8 on 8). That's seven on seven. Same as every other team in the NFL on base downs. Its been the math since the single-wing went the way of the dodo bird. The only thing that changes this today is the zone read where the QB might actually run.

In some 3-4 schemes, the DE are asked to 2 gap. Only the nose is asked to control a double team regularly. In other 3-4 schemes (like the Packers) the lineman are not two gapping and one ILB will regularly need to take on a Guard or Center. Same 7 on 7. In the Packer 3-4, the likeliest player to be free for a tackle are the Jack ILB and weakside OLB.

Nutz made a good point late in the season that the RDE was simply not holding up their end of the bargain. Add this to the complete tailspin Walden went into, and the Packers started getting gashed on the right side. Raji also did not have as good a season at Nose as Pickett did the year before. That is the run defense problem. If any single OLB regains their 2010 form, you just need one DL to be adequate.

The pass rush is worse, but there are more possible fixes. An OLB who can rush and cover could play nickel and dime like Chillar's former role. Any OLB who can hold the point and not get sucked in will help repair the run D (and that guy is probably on the roster) and led to better third down outcomes. A DL who can rush ala Jenkins or Raji would help in nickel and dime. Or an ILB who can blitz would also help solve the problem.

Thompson does not need two perennial All-Pros at OLB and DL this draft to fix this D. He needs competent play. That plus some DB depth and we will be celebrating woodbuck's reverse Super Bowl jinx.

[wist43]

You know, Brandon is slowly bringing me over to his side about driver. Before it was "my heart says stay, but my head says leave." The closer we get to the season, the more it looks like he's going to be on our team. That would be nice I think. I don't want to loose him, he's one of my favorite guys and before I was certain we'd loose him. Not so much any more.

As for the DL being the worst in the league, that's garbage. I don't know when packer fans are going to realize this, but we play a 3-4 defense now. The front 3 are not intended to regularly get a pass rush. They're there to stop the run and take up blockers and last year the packers were in the middle of the league for stopping the run. They do have serious holes on the right side of the defense though that need to get filled, but I don't think they were the worst defense in the league. That title goes to the Bucs who gave up 30+ points a game. The packers weren't that much better at 23 points a game, but they were by no means the worst.

The sky is not falling.

Don't know what team you were watching last year, but it must not have been the Packers. The Packers were so pathetically woeful on the DL, and in the front seven overall, that Capers fielded only 2 DL most of the time - out of necessity. We have 2 NFL calibur DL, Raji and Pickett, the rest are just bodies; bodies that spent most of their time on the sideline. They spent that time on the sideline b/c they sucked so bad they simply couldn't be justified on the field.

I've read more than one evaluation of our ILB play that concluded exactly what I concluded - you simply can't evaluate Hawk and Bishop b/c of the mess that was in front of them. I'm sure Capers was, and is, beside himself trying to find ways to make mud out of gelatinous goo... he has to be terribly frustrated as TT simply hasn't provided him with any talent.

What are the odds that TT actually provides him with some talent out of this draft?? Based on history, I'd say those odds are long. The Packers are an offensive team, and a finesse team. QB and WR play are much more important to the Packers than defense; and pass defense in the back end is much more important to the Packers than pass rush.

This will be a very interesting draft for TT... a few years ago he shocked everyone by taking Raji and Matthews - he needs to hit a couple more home runs in this draft to at least give Capers something to work with.

[pbmax]

He fielded two DL more in 2010 when he had Jenkins on the team.

[Gunakor]

That's a pile of 6th/7th rounders and street FA's. That's putting a lot of faith your coaching staff's ability to "coach 'em up"... at some point, talent matters; and talent tends to get snapped up at the top of the draft.

There's usually only a couple selections to make on the first day of the draft. There's 22 starters on a football team. Do the math.

Not everybody can be a superstar. If you're competing for championships, you need your mid to late rounders to step up. That's the deal. No team in the NFL has 22 starters that were all drafted in the first round. At some point you need your coaching staff to coach up the rookies. You need your street FA's to produce when their number is called.

[Brandon494]

Try to analyze this before you assess that one of the smartest posters here at Packerrats is making 'no sense'. If Wist43 is making 'no sense'. It's then my honest opinion that:

The collective mentality of our Packer home is pretty shabby. IMO that:

Is NOT the case.

Read wist43's efforts ** to help you see **. PLEASE. Thanks... (-:

** Six posts before this one wist43 breaks down Ted Thompson's drafting results. Analyze that please. I'm confident you'll then come around to what wist43 clearly stands by in terms of his frustration and 'a reality check' for all Packer fans to be aware of Sir.

Good Luck with that.

I wouldn't expect you to understand since you might be the most clueless poster on this board. Your a nice guy and all but I'm pretty sure when it comes to the NFL and the Packers I know what I'm talking about.

[Brandon494]

TT's highest pick for the Packers? #5 - a linebacker
His second highest pick? #9 - a D-lineman
His third highest pick? #16 - a D-lineman

Yup, it is pretty obvious that he puts no emphasis or importance on drafting defensive players generally and front seven in particular. All he does is stack up that offense, and when given an opportunity he passes on defensive players.

Had his planning worked and players remained healthy and law-abiding, the D-line should have included:

Pickett - Raji - Harrell (all first round picks, one brought in by FA)
Neal - (a second round pick)
Jolly - (a sixth round pick who had ability much higher than that)

Unfortunately, 60% of his plan did not materialize for whatever reasons.

Had those 5 played up to their capabilities, would we have cared if the sixth guy was Wynn, Wilson, Green or anyone else? Heck, maybe the sixth guy should have been Tollefson in 2011.

Failure of the D-line in 2011 had absolutely nothing to do with a lack of emphasis or commitment by TT. We can argue if it was poor evaluating and/or poor decision making versus bad luck, but an argument that TT ignores the position group is unsupportable.

THIS!

[Patler]

There's usually only a couple selections to make on the first day of the draft. There's 22 starters on a football team. Do the math.

Does work out quite well, doesn't it?

7 drafts, 7 firsts, 7 seconds and the pick for Favre gave him 15 in the first two rounds, before trades.
He picked Hawk, Raji, Harrell, Matthews and Neal for the front 7 in the first two rounds.
5/15 = 33%
front 7/22 starters = 32%

[Joemailman]

Gil Brandt has 12 DT/DE's listed in his Top 100. I'll be surprised if TT doesn't take at least one of them. Jerel Worthy or Kendall Reyes would be instant upgrades over Wynn/Wilson. I also wouldn't rule out the possibility of Neal contributing after he serves his suspension. It wouldn't take that much to produce considerably better results than last year. A group of Raji, Pickett, Worthy/Reyes, Hargrove, Neal, Guy and perhaps Wilson could be markedly better than what they had last year. Green is gone and Wynn needs to be gone. If Wynn makes the team, that would call into question whether they've made much progress.