One Exec "Packers Have Much Work To Do"

[woodbuck27]

Ohh lord isn't it really something.The peanut gallery is in the house.

Good morning Scott. Have a super day.

Scott don't slime up this thread.

I can deal with Brandon494. Easily !

Bob and 'bob' lean on one another.

It's the American Way in a repulsive RedNeck,Faschist driven Nazi bootcamp attitudinal way of daily 'trying to live' !

So so pathetic.

Yup ! Called out by one Dennis Leary. An honest American....among a majority of honest Americans.

Where and when and why....did the likes of you two ( a new tag team effort ....Scott Campbell and Brandon494 ) ... 'so scary' .... fall off the rails?

SO PATHETIC. Scott don't slime up this thread. I can deal with Brandon494 while I'm cleaning my nails.

There ... it's taken care of. So easy.

The indignities one must suffer all for the LOVE of the better good. Packerrats.

Ohh Brandon464. I want to forget being a gentleman and spinning you just a wee bit would be 'just wrong'. Your hardly a challenge....NOT at all capable.

The REAL POINT.... That's NOT why I'm here.

If you want to dance...insist on 'hard debate'; please simply lobby for 'the Meadow'.

AGAIN !! Scott don't slime up this thread. I can deal with Brandon494. Easily !

[Scott Campbell]

The MEADOW. Where all men prove that's a fact. Virtual reality meets Cinemascope. Where insults are held 'to task'.

Where Woody gets his Dixie cup full of little pills.

[Joemailman]

Comment: The Packers are burning Raji out fast. What a disheartening situation it has to be for him... continually lined up in that gimmicky 2-5 base, 2-4 nickel; it's Raji against the other teams OL - it wouldn't surprise me if his attitude sours, and he sets his eye on the exit sign at the end of his contract.

The Packers are wasting Raji; and couldn't seem to care less about it.

MM has talked about wanting to get back to playing more of a base 3-4. Obviously he can't do it with current group. That's why I think he's going with Jerel Worthy or Kendall Reyes in 1st round.

[Scott Campbell]

I'll be 'the tiger'. When you enter my cage. You'll look like lunch.

C'mon - Brandon looks a lot more like Tiger than you do.

[woodbuck27]

MM has talked about wanting to get back to playing more of a base 3-4. Obviously he can't do it with current group. That's why I think he's going with Jerel Worthy or Kendall Reyes in 1st round.

I'm just interested in how your analysis see's it as being either DT Jerel Worthy or DT Kendall Reyes? These picks by you are certainly ballpark close to reality in terms of a BPA 'defense' probabable availability.

Specifically why? one of those two?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Defensive Line
BJ Raji (1st round)
Ryan Pickett (1st round/FA)
Jarius Wynn (6th round)
CJ Wilson (7th round)
Lawrence Guy (7th round)
Daniel Muir (Street FA)
Anthony Hargrove (orig. 3rd round, street FA)
Mike Neal (2nd round - probable bust)

Linebackers
Clay Matthews (1st round)
A.J. Hawk (1st round)
Desmond Bishop (6th round)
Brad Jones (7th round)
D.J. Smith (6th round)
Erik Walden (6th round – is a free agent)
Robert Francois (undrafted)
Frank Zombo (undrafted)
Vic So ‘oto (undrafted)
Jamari Lattimore (undrafted)

That's a pile of 6th/7th rounders and street FA's. That's putting a lot of faith your coaching staff's ability to "coach 'em up"... at some point, talent matters; and talent tends to get snapped up at the top of the draft.

I won't argue to your point that the Packers are poor at evaluating or developing front seven players, but this is kind of disingenuous to me. You're trying to make it seem like Thompson has ignored the position and that the coaches have had to try to coach up a bunch of 6th and 7th round draft picks, but you fail to mention the rest of the draft picks used at the position.

Front Seven (DL/LB):

2005 4th round - LB Brady Poppinga
2005 6th round - DL Mike Montgomery
2006 1st round - LB A.J. Hawk
2006 3rd round - LB Abdul Hodge
2006 6th round - DL Johnny Jolly
2006 7th round - DL Dave Tollefson
2007 1st round - DL Justin Harrell
2007 6th round - LB Desmond Bishop
2008 4th round - DL Jeremy Thompson
2009 1st round - DL B.J. Raji
2009 1st round - LB Clay Matthews
2009 6th round - DL Jarius Wynn
2009 7th round - LB Brad Jones
2010 2nd round - DL Mike Neal
2010 7th round - DL C.J. Wilson
2011 6th round - LB D.J. Smith
2011 6th round - LB Ricky Elmore
2011 7th round - DL Lawrence Guy

Skill Positions (WR/RB/FB/TE):

2005 2nd round - WR Terrence Murphy
2005 6th round - WR Craig Bragg
2006 2nd round - WR Greg Jennings
2006 4th round - WR Cory Rodgers
2007 3rd round - WR James Jones
2007 5th round - WR David Clowney
2007 6th round - FB Korey Hall
2007 7th round - RB DeShawn Wynn
2008 2nd round - WR Jordy Nelson
2008 3rd round - TE Jermichael Finley
2008 7th round - WR Brett Swain
2009 5th round - FB Quinn Johnson
2010 5th round - TE Andrew Quarless
2010 6th round - RB James Starks
2011 2nd round - WR Randall Cobb
2011 3rd round - RB Alex Green
2011 5th round - TE D.J. Williams
2011 7th round - TE Ryan Taylor

18 draft picks on the front seven. Four 1st round picks, one 2nd round pick, three 3rd and 4th round picks, 10 late round picks.

18 draft picks on the front seven. No 1st round picks, four 2nd round picks, four 3rd and 4th round picks, 10 late round picks.

Thompson has spent almost the exact same "draft capital" on the front seven that he has on the skill positions. In fact, he's spent more--when you consider he's used four 1st round picks and one 2nd round pick on the front seven compared to no 1st round picks and four 2nd round picks at the skill positions.

The problem hasn't been that Thompson has ignored the front seven and left his coaches to "coach them up." The problem has been that they haven't been evaluated properly or haven't been coached up to the same degree as the skill positions. Some of it also has to do with some bad luck along the front seven. Hodge, Harrell, Thompson, and Neal have all gotten injured (with Jolly being suspended) in the front seven--while just Murphy has gone down at the skill positions. IMHO, if Harrell and Neal had stayed healthy and Jolly had avoided suspension, the front seven would look like a strength and not a weakness.

[woodbuck27]

I won't argue to your point that the Packers are poor at evaluating or developing front seven players, but this is kind of disingenuous to me. You're trying to make it seem like Thompson has ignored the position and that the coaches have had to try to coach up a bunch of 6th and 7th round draft picks, but you fail to mention the rest of the draft picks used at the position.

Front Seven (DL/LB):

2005 4th round - LB Brady Poppinga
2005 6th round - DL Mike Montgomery
2006 1st round - LB A.J. Hawk
2006 3rd round - LB Abdul Hodge
2006 6th round - DL Johnny Jolly
2006 7th round - DL Dave Tollefson
2007 1st round - DL Justin Harrell
2007 6th round - LB Desmond Bishop
2008 4th round - DL Jeremy Thompson
2009 1st round - DL B.J. Raji
2009 1st round - LB Clay Matthews
2009 6th round - DL Jarius Wynn
2009 7th round - LB Brad Jones
2010 2nd round - DL Mike Neal
2010 7th round - DL C.J. Wilson
2011 6th round - LB D.J. Smith
2011 6th round - LB Ricky Elmore
2011 7th round - DL Lawrence Guy

Skill Positions (WR/RB/FB/TE):

2005 2nd round - WR Terrence Murphy
2005 6th round - WR Craig Bragg
2006 2nd round - WR Greg Jennings
2006 4th round - WR Cory Rodgers
2007 3rd round - WR James Jones
2007 5th round - WR David Clowney
2007 6th round - FB Korey Hall
2007 7th round - RB DeShawn Wynn
2008 2nd round - WR Jordy Nelson
2008 3rd round - TE Jermichael Finley
2008 7th round - WR Brett Swain
2009 5th round - FB Quinn Johnson
2010 5th round - TE Andrew Quarless
2010 6th round - RB James Starks
2011 2nd round - WR Randall Cobb
2011 3rd round - RB Alex Green
2011 5th round - TE D.J. Williams
2011 7th round - TE Ryan Taylor

18 draft picks on the front seven. Four 1st round picks, one 2nd round pick, three 3rd and 4th round picks, 10 late round picks.

18 draft picks on the front seven. No 1st round picks, four 2nd round picks, four 3rd and 4th round picks, 10 late round picks.

Thompson has spent almost the exact same "draft capital" on the front seven that he has on the skill positions. In fact, he's spent more--when you consider he's used four 1st round picks and one 2nd round pick on the front seven compared to no 1st round picks and four 2nd round picks at the skill positions.

The problem hasn't been that Thompson has ignored the front seven and left his coaches to "coach them up." The problem has been that they haven't been evaluated properly or haven't been coached up to the same degree as the skill positions. Some of it also has to do with some bad luck along the front seven. Hodge, Harrell, Thompson, and Neal have all gotten injured (with Jolly being suspended) in the front seven--while just Murphy has gone down at the skill positions. IMHO, if Harrell and Neal had stayed healthy and Jolly had avoided suspension, the front seven would look like a strength and not a weakness.

OK now we are where this needs to get to. Ted Thompson's status as acknowledged **DRAFT GENUIOUS. Yes he's arguably that in terms of his assements and ability to pick on offense but fails miserably on 'D'.

What supports ** that ** in your post Harvey as 'a fact' and You asset in your post that TT has more or less balance his number of picks on 'D' and 'O'?

Front Seven (DL/LB):

2005 4th round - LB Brady Poppinga
2005 6th round - DL Mike Montgomery
2006 1st round - LB A.J. Hawk
2006 3rd round - LB Abdul Hodge
2006 6th round - DL Johnny Jolly
2006 7th round - DL Dave Tollefson
2007 1st round - DL Justin Harrell
2007 6th round - LB Desmond Bishop
2008 4th round - DL Jeremy Thompson
2009 1st round - DL B.J. Raji
2009 1st round - LB Clay Matthews
2009 6th round - DL Jarius Wynn
2009 7th round - LB Brad Jones
2010 2nd round - DL Mike Neal
2010 7th round - DL C.J. Wilson
2011 6th round - LB D.J. Smith
2011 6th round - LB Ricky Elmore
2011 7th round - DL Lawrence Guy

Becomes just one very good year '2009':

2009 1st round - DL B.J. Raji
2009 1st round - LB Clay Matthews

Now in this draft TT need to be clicking on all cylinders and focusing on 'D'. He must NOT get distracted.

It all has nothing to do with yesterday and all with this day and week and the Packer future. it's very obvious that Ted Thompson couldn't focus on it all and to his credit we did enjoy a Super Bowl championship and that was awesome given the extreme liklihood that would come to fruition when it did.

It's all here. The Green Bay Packers are the worst 'team Vs the pass in the entire NFL; ina Conference where certainly teams that dominate have a superior passing offense.

GO Ted Thompson! >>> GO PACKERS !!

[Brandon494]

Clueless

[woodbuck27]

Ohh Scott why are you bringing skin color into another of your 'much to do about nothing good'... post wars?

Please take 'your ignorant Redneck manners and ways' and stuff it where the sun doesn't shine. That place is close to your brain.

Take a hike and mind your own silly business.

PLEASE and Thanks. (-:

Don't you get it yet:

Play somewhere else as we're discussing football on this thread... trying to FOCUS on 'just that'.

[sharpe1027]

TT obviously overvalued the players he had... I assume he will do the same thing this year with those same players.

That is a pretty uneducated assumption IMHO. Coming into last year, the defense was coming off a relatively good performance. By your own admission, there was a serious drop off in their performance. Do you simply you assume that you are the only person that could see that?

[Scott Campbell]

Play somewhere else as we're discussing football on this thread... trying to FOCUS on 'just that'.

Maybe you should try harder.

[Guiness]

First all we aren't going to even draft a WR and 2nd IF Driver was going to be cut TT would
have done so by now. WR and TE are the two positions you will not see us drafting this weekend IMO.

lol, those are bold words!

Popular thinking would certainly point that way...but popular thinking also would've prevented him from taking two TEs in last year's draft and both making the team! I don't think I would ever try to predict something TT would not do because it didn't seem to make sense

[Smeefers]

I don't think Mike Neal is a bust yet. I always try to give a guy 3 years to prove himself. 2 years of injuries don't give me much hope, but I think it is possible for him to turn it around. If he's going to do it, it has to be this year though.

I don't think anyone here will be found saying that the packers front 7 was breath takingly good last year. I just believe that there were more factors than "they suck." I think DC should have a load of the blame heaped on his lap for failing to adapt to the defense that he had on the field. I think that a lot of our front 7 should be rotational players, not starters and that we are missing starting NFL talent on the right side. I think Peprah needs to hold some of the blame, but I also think he did well considering the situation he was put in and the talent he has. No one ever thought he was a starter, just a decent back up. I think Trammon Williams took a step back with his injury and I don't think Shields made any improvements last year. I think Morgan Burnett is still young and learning but will improve with time.

As for TT's drafting ability, I think he's above average when compared to the rest of the league. In the past 5 years, his only real bust was Brian Brohm as shown in the link below. Besides that, it's Justin Harrell. I do believe you are correct about the glaring deficiencies that were not addressed though Wist. The only reason I think he did not address our defensive problems with the draft is because he planned on guys being healthy and contributing. I think he planned on Neal being able to play, I think he planned on Jolly coming off suspension and providing support. I think he planned on either walden or zombo at least keeping up the level they were at before instead of everyone regressing. I don't think he planned on Wynn or Wilson getting any real playing time. They were late round developmental players. So instead of shoring up those two positions (which he thought he had covered), he decided to address losing Grant this year by picking up Green. He decided to address losing Driver by picking up Cobb. He decided to address losing Clifton by picking up Sherod. Giving all these rookies time to grow into starting talent before they had to take over. Things don't always work out as you plan, but I don't think the plan is majorly flawed.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/04/21/draft-grader-green-bay-packers/

[pbmax]

So then you guys are making the argument that TT sucks at drafting defense then??

I certainly make that argument. I guess I sometimes forget any effort that goes into fielding a defense b/c those efforts are so often fruitless.

Or, two injuries and one addiction can completely change the nature of a roster position when they occur within 3 years of each other. If Jennings, Driver and Nelson were wiped off the map by injury and addiction, would we be screaming that Thompson can't draft WR?

[woodbuck27]

That is a pretty uneducated assumption IMHO. Coming into last year, the defense was coming off a relatively good performance. By your own admission, there was a serious drop off in their performance. Do you simply you assume that you are the only person that could see that?

"Do you simply you assume that you are the only person that could see that?" sharpe1027

Are we posting today just to pick shit out of the air?

Where are you going with that post. Dear Lord.

Are you posting or picking?? Do you know who your taking difference with? Maybe try to take a higher road.

maybe....offer up some decency in terms of respect.

Are you implying that the member wist43 'in offering us concrete analysis and facts'.

Is being arrogant or all puffed up in offering to Packerrats such accurate information? That isn't the case.

wist43 'over the top' backs himself up.

What does the member need to do to satisfy your standards of regarding respect?