TT acknowledges dysfunction of front seven

[wist43]

I think as time goes on what the modern "3-4" teams run will be virtually incomprehensible from the perspective of the classical Bum Phillips or Chuck Fairbanks models of the 3-4 defense. The original 3-4 defenses were designed to be ideally suited for stopping the run (since you have more big bodies up front, and your gaps are better managed). In the days when people believed they had to run the football and stop the run, that mattered. These are not those days. Dick LeBeau leveraged the formation into an "unpredictable pass rush" concept when he and Dom invented the Zone Blitz, but that's now just a standard trick in every DC's arsenal.

It's entirely likely that something like the 2-4-5 nickel that Dom ran extensively in 2010, or the hybrid 3-4/4-3 defense that Bellichick has been devising over the past few years is, in fact, the future of the "3-4" defense. In the modern NFL to stop good offenses, first and foremost you have to be able to stop teams from throwing the ball on you and the classic 2-gapping odd front is not really designed for that. So the challenge is to design and implement something that is.

One of the reasons, I believe, that the defense struggled mightily last year was that Dom basically relied on his toolbox form 2010 (which was rational, since that worked very well then) and the other teams figured out how to beat it in the offseason. It's up to Dom this offseason to adapt and come up with something to throw your better offenses for a loop. If nothing else, having players who can get at the quarterback in at least one way (even if it's only one way) are going to help you do that. Capers is at his best as an offensive coordinator when he's forced to innovate, in the past he's overseen a number of defensive declines because he's failed to do that. If nothing else, the pieces that Thompson has given him can be effective, but will not be very effective if Capers tries to fit square pegs in round holes. This could very well be a good thing.

The Packers ran a pretty straight forward 3-4 in the 80's, and Tim Harris was a beast coming off the edge, but they didn't have much in the way of personnel subpackages, and on run downs it was as you said, all about gap discipline/control. I agree that Dick LeBeau saw the future and put it on the field.

I think the future of the attacking 3-4 is what TT drafted for this weekend. Big, strong, athletic linemen; pressure off either edge; and the flexibility to blitz or drop just about anybody. Perry, Worthy, and Daniels are nice additions, and Capers now has some material to wok with... I'll be most interested to see what Capers can do with a rush of Matthews, Worthy, Raji, Daniels, and Perry... and throw Woodson in there as a late comer. Capers still needs more bodies, but at least he has something to work with now.

[wist43]

Here is the summary of the Packers draft from CBS Sportsline

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/post/18900058

Analyzing the Packers' draft: Final grade

April 29, 2012 10:35 p.m. - by James Carlton

The good: The Packers had the worst defense in the NFL last season. Their pass rush was pitiful, and their coverage was porous. They used their first six picks on defensive players. Green Bay upgraded at OLB in the first round with Nick Perry (Southern California) and at DL and CB in the second round with Jerel Worthy (Michigan State) and Casey Hayward (Vanderbilt).

The bad: Speedy S Jerron McMillian (Maine), whom some thought would go undrafted, seems like a reach in the fourth round. The Packers also didn't draft a center to back up 36-year-old Jeff Saturday.

The bottom line: We can't know until they step on the field, but the knee-jerk reaction in Packer nation is that Green Bay had a fantastic draft. It traded up three times and addressed all of its glaring defensive needs. Perry and Worthy both could be 2012 starters. Grade: A.

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Will Brinson, CBS Sportline

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/18881992/2012-nfl-draft-winners-and-losers-colts-stay-on-offensive-with-smart-draft

Green Bay Packers -- I neglected to include the Packers in my Day 2 list of winners and losers and that was wrong. So my apologies for that, because Ted Thompson crushed this draft, going defense with his first six picks. Nick Perry will help limit the number of double teams Clay Matthews sees and moving up to snag Jerel Worthy in the second was superb. Thompson then proceeded to pile on the depth all over the defense with good value picks like Terrell Manning and Casey Hayward. I love the pick of B.J. Coleman from Chattanooga late in the seventh round too. He's going to be their next Matt Flynn type guy, watch.

[Pugger]

You severely overrate Eli Manning if you think he can comprehend War and Peace

[pbmax]

Well, other than running 2-4-5 as much as last year, despite what McCarthy indicated a few weeks ago, there is another possibility with the new players. Run the Ravens hybrid with Perry as Suggs and Worthy next to Matthews. Could put Pickett back on the nose and Raji at the 3 tech before the shifting begins.

wist could be right that Dom is cooking up something new.

[mraynrand]

Capers now has some material to wok with...

wist could be right that Dom is cooking up something new.

[wist43]

Well, other than running 2-4-5 as much as last year, despite what McCarthy indicated a few weeks ago, there is another possibility with the new players. Run the Ravens hybrid with Perry as Suggs and Worthy next to Matthews. Could put Pickett back on the nose and Raji at the 3 tech before the shifting begins.

wist could be right that Dom is cooking up something new.

Say your primary rushers in most of your nickel and dime packages are going to be Matthews, Worthy, Raji, Daniels and Perry. In either package you're going to have Woodson lurking somewhere around the LOS as a rover; not sure who the other LB's in either alignment would be - we're still short on talent.

With those 5 as your base rushers in sub packages, Capers needs to find ways to keep those guys fresh. How do you rest, i.e. rotate, those other 5 guys in your 3-4 base?? Hargrove can spell in the rush packages; hopefully Neal can spell at both DE spots in the base; are Raji and Worthy going to spell each other??

The Packers are surely going to play more straight-up base 3-4, and Capers is going to be able to get creative from there. Pickett needs to eat up a lot of snaps as a base DE. Bishop and Hawk are servicible in the middle, but both have limitations.

That leaves you with the following players pencilled into expected and defined roles:

DL: Pickett, Worthy, Raji, Daniels, Hargrove, and Neal
LB: Matthews, Perry, Bishop, and Hawk

That's 10 slots filled... we'd need another 2 or 3 slots filled to give Capers fresher players with a lot more options open to him. Those slots will be filled on the roster of course, but how much can Capers make use of those guys?? If you're going to carry 14-15 front seven players - how much production can Dom get out of those bottom 4-5 slots??

Be nice to have 1 or 2 more viable LB'ers out of that group, but those developmental guys are kept there as much for their ST's abilities as they are for anything they're showing from scrimmage.

Anyway, I like what Ted did this weekend... he really improved our defense.

[Smidgeon]

I think people just thought he was raw. That he needed to get physically stronger and improve in his technique. His rookie season shouldn't be a surprise to anybody. I'm not willing to write him off yet.

Not only am I not willing to write him off yet, I still have high hopes for him. Except for Cobb, he might have been the one that I have the most hopes for from last year's draft.

[Smidgeon]

Wist, you are such a visionary. You saw a road the packers needed to take and by God they took it. I am simply amazed. No one should ever consider contradicting what you say ever again. I don't even think they should allow anyone to post here but you, execpt of course if it's to agree with you. Ted Thompson knew our front 7 was the worst since the creation of the 3-4 defense. There was perhaps 1 or 2 guys who could play on that D though pretty much everyone sucked. Thankfully, TT finally realised this and decided that he would rather field a bunch of rookies out there (Which I too think is a great, great idea). I think your right.

Perry is definately starting at OLB. He'll play most of the time and our defense will improve because of it. He is at least going to be a NFL calibur player, unlike the schmucks we got in there now. We'll probably let all those other hose bags go (except for walden, he might have a little bit of potential).

At RE, it's going to be Worthy all day long. They don't even need to keep those other D-Bags that played that position last year. Not with worthy there. Who cares what kind of experience those 7th round guys got, screw them, toss em. We might want to keep Mike Neal, but with that 4 game suspension, he's going to have to be at least a pro bowl calibur player to take over for this NFL calibur player that we drafted. Those other guys don't deserve to wash gilbert brown's jock strap.

Now we all know what a shitty year Trammon Williams had last year. 4 INT's, 19 PD's and 58 Tackles? Jesus, he might as well be asking TT for his gold watch. He's lucky though, because Sam Shields played way... way, way way worse. He only had 4 INT's, 13 PD's and 38 tackles. Looks like he's back to special teams because we got ourselves a bonifide NFL calibur CB in Casey Hayword. I sure am glad TT decided to address how shitty our cornerbacks played by picking this guy up. He moved up to get him, you know that means TT thought that our DB's sucked monkey balls.

BJ Raji, Ryan Pickett, your asses are currently on notice you fat tubs of shit. We got Mike Daniels and you guys are fucked. One of you is going to be riding the pine next year and I don't know why you didn't expect it. Did you see how shitty you played last year? You were part of a front 7 that was worse that a bunch of arthritic dress wearing shit eating cry babies Wist and I have ever seen. You were part of a D that sucked so bad, that it's fucking amazing that they didn't single handidly just hand every game we played to the opposition. I mean, I know we went 15-2 and I know we lost to the Giants because of drops and turn overs, but fuck you guys for being on such a piece of shit defense. You know what we did? We picked up a REAL NFL calibur defensive tackle in Mike Daniels. You guys are fucked. No way you can compete with that guy.

We're also lucky as hell we got someone to finally replace that worthless piece of shit Charlie Peprah. That guy sucks. I mean mega sucks, everyone here even agrees with it. That dude is so bad, he may be one of the sole reasons the packers D gave up so many yards last year and we all know that yardage is the absolute best way to determine how good a defense is. I mean, last year? 5 INT's 10 PD's and 78 tackles? He should be dragged out into the parking lot and shot in the knee caps every day at dawn for a performance like that. That's nowhere near Nick Collins' Pro Bowl numbers from 2010 - 4 INT's, 13 PD's and 53 tackles. I mean, Nick Collins created 2 Forced fumbles that year, Peprah? Big goose egg. Fuck that guy. We got Jerron McMillion now. Peprah's taking a walk.

Terrell Manning is going to be a great sub package player for this team. He'll probably push Walden back even farther on the depth chart. This guy is a real NFL calibur player and man am I real happy about that. See, TT doesn't draft for the future, he drafts for next season. These guys absolutely need to contribute and Jerron's no different. He's going to provide the kind of pass rush that Walden and Zombo couldn't even dream of. This guy is lightyears ahead of those other ass holes, he's a real NFL calibur guy, not like Zombo and Walden. They're pieces of shit who should be washing the floor.

I am so happy, just like Wist, that TT decided to do what Wist thought he should do. I'm glad he decided not to get any good players on offense at all, I would rather him take some 4th rounder (who's totally going to play a lot) for defense than some D-bag who probably won't even see the field on offense, even if that guy is better - And we all know that's what TT did. Just admit it guys. Don't make Wist and me rub your nose in it like you're a dog who shit in the living room. It just sucks when we have to do that (although it is kind of fun to use random facts to PROVE that we were right and you were wrong you idiots). I mean, I'm extatic that we got all these awesome guys who are obviously better than the guys we got now. I mean, with all these playmakers that we added, it's impossible not to say that TT was addressing specific needs and these guys are here to fill them.

*you're

[3irty1]

There was not a "stong promise" from Walden, Zombo, and Jones. I still had a smidgeon of hope for Walden, but I could tell even during our SB run that it was a mirage. All of those guys are short-term plugs that TT tried to convince himself were legit NFL starters. Way, way off base... not even close. TT majorly fucked up, realized it, and set about fixing it in this draft.

My skepticism toward TT before this draft was due entirely to his track record in drafting, and the fact that the Packers really don't value defense or pass rush very much. TT definitely put that criticism to bed, and I'm glad he did.

10 out of 12 picks to defense... just a regular draft for TT?? Trading up and down all over the place to get guys that fill specific package rolls - that's all I was asking... was that so hard??

If I'm "exaggerating"; then TT is too... b/c he did everything I thought he needed to do. It remains to be seen if TT actually fixed a lot of defensive shortcomings, but at least he addressed the issues - seems I'm the only PR happy about that, lol...

This was a statement draft by TT, and the statement was, "our defense sucks"........ Maybe if we had His Lordness deliver the draft pick announcements, then all you guys would feel warmier, fuzzier, hopier, changier??

Walden was coming off of a strong performance down the stretch in 2010. Zombo was the best of the lot before an injury in 2010 and showed promise as a pass rusher. Brad Jones has been the worst of the lot lately but has been effective at times as a Packer as well. So TT fucked up in evaluating these guys because he should have predicted injuries and regressed play of these guys? Of course TT had a defense to fix but through no fault of his, so what you're taking as admonition of mistakes is simply BS. He came into 2011 with a stronger defensive roster than he had in 2010, he was just unlucky. Again, you're the only one who was surprised that Ted drafted so much defense this year and your claim that the Packers don't value defense or pass rush is outrageous. The Packers were tied for 2nd in the league in sacks in 2010.

[pbmax]

I will give wist and his theory of something new this piece of completely inferred evidence. There has to be a reason Thompson wanted so many specific players (and when give a choice of Still versus Worthy took the guy with more shake in pass rush) that resulted in trading up 3 times. All the D guys drafted either added pass defense, tackling or both. So its obvious what they wished to change,McCarthy said as much at his PC. Now we just have to wait to see if enough of the new guys break through to justify something a little different.

[Fritz]

It sure sounds like something changed between the NFL meetings, when McCarthy said he wanted to get back to more base 3-4, and the draft, in which Thompson drafted guys who don't seem to fit into the base 3-4 so much as they do into the groupings of which you've spoken above. Is Capers trying to re-invent his defense to respond to the pass-happy nature of the NFL?

And will offenses respond by trying to gash the Pack with runs and reverses and screens?

[MJZiggy]

*you're

Lol.

[sharpe1027]

*you're

One mistake is acceptable for a 997 word post.

[mission]

House is the only one on the roster who would seem to be able to play outside CB on a regular basis beside Williams and Shields. And Shields is on notice as well.

Just reading this whole thread... good topic, but 'no way' on this. He got off to a bad start, but he was easily the Packers' best cover guy at the end of the year. Lockout hurt all the young guys. Shields will have a great season playing his normal outside, no-one-burns-you CB position. Will probably still not be a very good tackler, but I expect some improvement with the new team focus on tackling.

[Scott Campbell]

Just reading this whole thread... good topic, but 'no way' on this. He got off to a bad start, but he was easily the Packers' best cover guy at the end of the year. Lockout hurt all the young guys. Shields will have a great season playing his normal outside, no-one-burns-you CB position. Will probably still not be a very good tackler, but I expect some improvement with the new team focus on tackling.

I think those comments about crappy tackling were directed specifically at him. It wouldn't completely surprise me to see him lose his starting spot.