Official 2012 Training Camp Discussion Thread

[Brandon494]

I'm starting to feel more and more that Coleman wouldn't make it past waivers. I hope I'm wrong. I think he's got a good future and might be a better QB than Flynn. He might be Hasselback material.

I think he'll be another Matt Flynn for us which will be a solid backup, he has a long ways to go before I start comparing him to Hasselback.

[Smidgeon]

I think he'll be another Matt Flynn for us which will be a solid backup, he has a long ways to go before I start comparing him to Hasselback.

Oh, he's certainly not there yet. It's just my gut feeling on where his ceiling is. He has the tools. He just needs the training.

[pbmax]

The reports on Starks I have read have said he has been a notch above everyone else running but that pass pro is still spotty. His QB was giving him a talking to two days ago.

I hope House keeps it up but they also really need Doc Jennings and Shields to make it a complete backfield through to the dime. A Tweet yesterday from one of the speciaty coverage guys (Packer Report or some such) said Shields had been solid for 3 practices in a row this week after the weekend trouble. Have read little about Jennings.

I want Newhouse to be a backup. But with Sherrod out until at least this weekend its looking less and less likely. McGinn said Datko looked like this year's Ricky Elmore at right tackle. Anyone here anything about Samson Genus?

[pbmax]

Question: Justin, that weight you got for Raji, was it the offficial Packer number or did Raji give us that? I wonder how often those weights are updated. I don't think Pickett's weight ever changes even though he does (this year thinner).

Notes from Last Night Stolen from Twitter:

1, Bush rotated (Whitt's word for who plays with the 1s) into the starting defense. Then proceeded to get torched for 40 yards by Rodgers on a deep sideline pass. There has to be a way to teach him to turn around. I will be rooting harder than ever for House.
2. Don Davey is a Triathlete now.
3. EDS over Genus at backup center.
4. Perry did not get much done versus Bulaga
5. Raji back at end, Pickett in middle. Will need to pull up old Eagle-Oakie thread from last year but I think that is a switch from last year. I prefer Pick in middle on base. Wilson with starters at RDE.
6. 2nd team D: Wilson at LDE, Raji NT, Worthy RDE
7. McMillan has some speed off edge on blitzes.
8. Shields still feeling way, broke on out route and missed. 20 yard completion to backup TE #7.
9. Mike Applesauce has dime DBs: McMillan, Jennings, Woodson, Bush, Williams and House. No Burnett?
10. Borel ahead of Gurley.
11. KR: Cobb, Shields, Borel, Smithson, Otis Merrill, Curenski Gilleylen. I love 90 man rosters.
12. Ray Dominguez got hurt.
13. Neal beat Greg Van Roten in 1 on 1 pass rush. First lost for grandson of Johnny.
14. Worthy got 1st team reps versus O in 4 minute offense. Weird. In this drill, goal of O is to kill clock. Why Worthy?
15. Dezman Moses is having his way with the bottom of the O roster.
16. Wilde: Five #Packers went out with injuries: Dominguez (ankle), Richardson (thumb), D.J. Williams (back), B.Jones (knee), Hoese (hamstring).

[pbmax]

Pete Carroll is a moron.

I understand the point and understand why it should not be a simply theoretical exercise. But this also demonstrates that Carroll does not understand the difference between Pro and College ball. And how to minimize risk in a complicated and large organization.

The money Flynn signed for is not enough to put all of your eggs into. But by publicly playing three card QB monte, he risks destroying two of his organizations most important assets. All because Pete does not have the intellectual discipline to hold two, opposing ideas in his head simultaneously. The QB front runner needs the opportunity that his front runner status bequeaths to him to prove or disprove that he belongs on the field. And two, that players must earn their time on the field.

Or he could simplify and remember that if you have three QBs, you really have none. Or that the coach's only goal should be to put the team in a position to succeed without regard individual agenda's or desires. And those individual agenda's or desires include the HC fondness for competition at a position to be perfectly consistent across all position groups.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--matt-flynn-s-big-money-doesn-t-dim-rookie-russell-wilson-s-shot-at-seahawks--starting-job-.html

[RashanGary]

Hmmmm. . . Van Rotten making a push? ? ? The way most of our 2nd string OL suck butt, having only one loss in one on one's gives him a head up.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I wonder how impressive House has been. The reports are good, but half the time I hear about a WR making a play it seems to be on House. Or at least in the last couple of practices. It might be reporters thought House had taken the #1 spot (rather than Whitt rotating them), and then jumped the gun on scooping other reporters. I'd love it if he took that spot because Shields has shown he can be a good 3rd CB and Hayward would be intriguing as the 3rd or 4th CB.

From yesterday's camp report:

Jennings caught a back-shoulder throw for a touchdown against Davon House, as Rodgers beat a red-zone blitz, and then later he beat House again on a deep post as Rodgers bought time in the pocket.

I read some other things on JSO and GBPG, but I'm not going to try to find them because they'll count against my allotment of 15 articles/month.

[RashanGary]

Dominguez and Van Rotten are two of the OL who are standing out in the rushing drills. I'm guessing those two make it. Dietrich-Smith might make it purely because we don't have a backup center on the roster. He's a stop-gap type player. After that, Derrek Sherrod, but Sherrod's strength has to be way down, not being able to work out for 6-9 months with his lower body. His technique still has to be raw. Obviously you can't cut him, even if it's going to take him some time to get back.

[RashanGary]

Saturday is the odd duck. He's old. His strength is his ability to get the OL set quickly and correctly at the line so the Packers can keep a rabid pace. Defense have a hard time getting set and substituting if the offense is pressing the pace.

The rest of these guys are 320 lb 23-25 year olds who can move, bend and pass protect (Marshmallow still has to prove it, but consider it done )

[pbmax]

I wonder how impressive House has been. The reports are good, but half the time I hear about a WR making a play it seems to be on House. Or at least in the last couple of practices. It might be reporters thought House had taken the #1 spot (rather than Whitt rotating them), and then jumped the gun on scooping other reporters. I'd love it if he took that spot because Shields has shown he can be a good 3rd CB and Hayward would be intriguing as the 3rd or 4th CB.

From yesterday's camp report:



I read some other things on JSO and GBPG, but I'm not going to try to find them because they'll count against my allotment of 15 articles/month.

House also has won battles with Jennings (including a tip and a strip from previous practices) but I agree. He's not been lights out and mistake free. Without seeing him live, its tough to know if his success is across the board or mostly against fodder. Whitt did mention that he thought coverage of House's rise was funny. McCarthy has used similar language before to talk up young players and then not have it pan out. I think its his way of staying pawsitive in the press for the young guys. He clearly thinks Shields needs to stop reading coverage from 2010.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I missed Family Night, but it sounds like Lattimore has a chance at LB and Borel is ahead of Gurley.

[ThunderDan]

Pete Carroll is a moron.

I understand the point and understand why it should not be a simply theoretical exercise. But this also demonstrates that Carroll does not understand the difference between Pro and College ball. And how to minimize risk in a complicated and large organization.

The money Flynn signed for is not enough to put all of your eggs into. But by publicly playing three card QB monte, he risks destroying two of his organizations most important assets. All because Pete does not have the intellectual discipline to hold two, opposing ideas in his head simultaneously. The QB front runner needs the opportunity that his front runner status bequeaths to him to prove or disprove that he belongs on the field. And two, that players must earn their time on the field.

Or he could simplify and remember that if you have three QBs, you really have none. Or that the coach's only goal should be to put the team in a position to succeed without regard individual agenda's or desires. And those individual agenda's or desires include the HC fondness for competition at a position to be perfectly consistent across all position groups.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--ma...ting-job-.html

PB, I too wonder if this happens because of Carroll's college days. In the NCAA you have 4 years with a QB and more likely 2 that he will play. You need to find the best QB for 11 games and that is all. In the NFL you need to build continuity. You can let a QB play and fight thru a 8-8 year knowing that 2 or 3 years from now you might be looking at 13-3 and a QB who can lead your team for 5-7 years.

[pbmax]

PB, I too wonder if this happens because of Carroll's college days. In the NCAA you have 4 years with a QB and more likely 2 that he will play. You need to find the best QB for 11 games and that is all. In the NFL you need to build continuity. You can let a QB play and fight thru a 8-8 year knowing that 2 or 3 years from now you might be looking at 13-3 and a QB who can lead your team for 5-7 years.

Yes, in College, that backup QB might stick around (Cassel, Sanchez) waiting for a known chance to play or simply transfer where you usually don't hear from them again. There are a few well know exceptions, but usually players that need to transfer are not substantially better than what you have on hand. So most transfers don't haunt college coaches. Aaron Stecker couldn't sniff a carry after Dayne came on board, but he transferred and the Badgers never looked back. Stecker was good enough to last 10+ years but no one ever second guessed Stecker or Alvarez.

In the professional environment, you need that QB to both trust and fear you. But your starter needs the reps and chance to start in live games before judgement is passed and a pro offense is no place for shuttling QBs. The backup QBs have no interest in sticking around if they are truly good. Accordingly, if you have no confidence in Tavaris Jackson, then you need to support Flynn now. Wilson will available and developing for more years than Flynn will. Building up Wilson (or Jackson) publicly puts more pressure on Flynn, causes confusion in the fan and reporter base and makes you look dumb when you make a decision contrary to the hype.

[LP]

TJack sure does get himself into some shitty situations. I wonder if it has anything to do with Darrell Bevell. For some reason I have the impression that Bevell is the HC's yes man, and just strings players like Jackson along because he doesn't have the balls to make a stand, one way or the other.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers Harrell (2) (2)
Starks Green Saine (3) (5)
Kuhn (1) (7)
Finley Williams Taylor Crabtree (4) (10)
Jennings Nelson Jones Cobb Driver Borel (6) (16)
Newhouse Lang Saturday Sitton Bulaga Sherrod Van Rotten Dominguez Dietrich Smith (9) (25)

Masthay Crosby Goode (3) (28 )


Raji Pickett Wilson Worthy Daniels (5) (33)
Matthews Perry Moses Bishop Smith Lattimore Hawk Francois Manning B Jones (10) (43)
Williams House Hayward Shields Bush Ross Woodson Burnett Jennings McMillan (10) (53)