PLEASE ANYONE - HELP ME to Understand !!

[woodbuck27]

Packer fans on this Forum !! H E L P !!

It's tough for us to get the inside on some moves. I was really surprised that Billy Cundiff was let go at this point in OUR TC. BAM !!!

Being a suporter of a team, isn't exactly like watching " Survivor or American Idle or the Miss America Contest" - where we see the winners develop.

We see lots of moves that puzzle, at least some of us, but it's ALL very interesting. We ALL just hold out HOPE, that every move will be for US and " of course" - not all are. We are different and see it differently.

What must it be like to be Ted Thompson, as he learns to manage OUR team? It's NOT easy - I expect.

I see Ted Thompson, as a rather mysterious fella, and it will take TIME for this Packer fan to read him. I see this.

I think he has a heart and combined with intelligence, Ted Thompson thinks of the better good for a player.

Some people here want to slam me - because I want Ted Thompson to be solid as OUR GM. I am not all against Ted Thompson, and "in fact" I give him full marks for having a terrific draft last April.

I love it that we have the likes of:

HAWK ,HODGE,JENNINGS,COLLEDGE.SPITZ,CULVER and WILL BLACKMON
(watch for this fella - he's going to be a beauty) . . .

and hopefully, Cory Rodgers and Dale Tollefson and Tony MOLL and Greg Jolly and INGLE MARTIN ( good athlete - great arm) can also contribute to OUR future.

Ted it's said here:

" can't keep them ALL ". . but Ted Thompson . . . just. . well. . . may.

We need the core group of OUR Vet's and the remainder of OUR 53-Man must be the BEST that Ted Thompson can hand - Head Coach Mike McCarthy and his Staff.

Alot of us believed I expect base on what we read and the reports of members here that, Billy Cundiff put in the effort and the results to be the clear front runner (up to yesterday) as OUR kicker. Can anyone deny that?

The press had that assssment as a fact. So Billy Cundiff was dispatched as Ted Thompson felt that he and his Coaching staff saw more upside in Dave Raynor. More potential than Cundiff that seems relevant to Ted's decision on Billy Cundiff.That's it as I view that move.

What is it, that you see - on that move to toss Billy Cundiff?

Timing?? Strange??? No! Not as I have so far been able in my limited standpoint been able to read Ted "Mystery Man" Thompson.

Ted Thompson made up his mind (I hope) or expect, based on input from his HC - Coach's. So why hang onto what he didn't need.

Billy Cundiff and his history in the NFL over Dave Raynor's potential upside.

Give Billy Cundiff another chance while TC is on with another Organization. That maybe . . is partly due to Ted's heart and - HIS Intelligence? Am I out to lunch here people?? Help me to understand this better.

Does ANYONE ELSE see it, at all as I'm seeing it ?? Otherwise - PLEASE straighten me out on this move at this time in OUR TC. . . .

PLEASE !!

WHY do I ask this of YOU Packer fans?? I'll explain.

I have to be prepared now, for the possible release of a man that I've pulled for since way back in early Feb.2006. A man that has worked his tail off and has showed us alot.

Punter - Jon Ryan.

I have to be prepoared for the possible release of another Man that I support -

WR Ruvell Martin who has clearly displayed the effort and "the RESULT's" to be one of OUR WR's to begin this season.

ONLY - Donald Driver has demonstrated better stat's in TC, as of Wed. Aug.16, 2006. Ruvell Martin and DD and Greg Jennings have by a long shot, outshone the likes of Rod Gardner as the 4th best IMO, and after him what in "H" has Robert Ferguson and Marc Boerigter done, but very little that is consistent - positive for this season??

How can I be better prepared for the release of either punter Jon Ryan and /or WR Ruvell Martin?

HELP PLEASE.

GO PACKERS ! HOLD FAITH FOR 2006 !!

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

How can I be better prepared for the release of either punter Jon Ryan and /or WR Ruvell Martin?

They won't be released, you have my word...

[Badgepack]

I would have to think that if Billy Cundiff can't kick well enough in the semi-dome of warm weather Dallas, who were desperate for a kicker, he would have a hard time kicking in Green Bay.

[Packnut]

TT

I'm not gonna jump on TT for this one. He did try to sign Vinateri but it just did'nt work out. The way I see it, some team will cut a promising kicker with-in the next week or 2 and it will be up to TT to find him. That's what he gets paid for.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Re: TT

I'm not gonna jump on TT for this one. He did try to sign Vinateri but it just did'nt work out. The way I see it, some team will cut a promising kicker with-in the next week or 2 and it will be up to TT to find him. That's what he gets paid for.

Yep, its why am not worried, it's not like cuniff is irreplaceable.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

As for helping you understand TT........

I think TT is just like any other good GM when evaluating talent. Like you said Woodbuck, we watch the packers closely, as close as anything else we watch, but we just don't always see the winner develop. TT most likely saw that Rayner had a stronger leg than Cuniff, had more potential, and was almost, if not, as accurate. There was no clear winner at this position, that's why TT did what he did.

I just can't see this happening with Jon Ryan because IMO he is the clear winner. He out punts BJ by an average of almost 10 yards and his hang time is just getting better. If Jon Ryan was to get cut, I would also need help understanding that move.

[MJZiggy]

he has also said a lot about hanging out behind the bench and observing the way players interact in forming a team environment. It is possible that Cundiff was not kicking particularly well, but perhaps better than Raynor, but Raynor has a better relationship with the holders and staff and that with him being young, while he might not be the guy we end up with, TT saw more potential in him than Cundiff. Cundiff is a vet and should be kicking better than the youngin' by a much wider margin right now. Maybe Cundiff is as good as he's gonna get and Raynor is showing improvement. There are a lot of possible reasons for this one when on the surface, it might look...well...odd.

[pittstang5]

Woodbuck,

I too was shocked on the Cundiff debacle. But, when you think about what alot of people in here are saying, it makes alot of sense.

Cundiff, by far and most agree, was the better kicker in this camp. There's no denying that. However, he is average at best. He's been in the league 4 years and, imo, has a below average percentage of making FGs....70 something percent. For comparison, Longwell was 80 something. TT more than likely feels that Cundiff has reached his potential and may not get any better. Is there room for him to improve? Maybe, but the odds are against it. Now, enter Raynor. A kid that's been in the league one year and hasn't ever kicked for a FG. Ok, so he tried one, but come on, his first attempt was for 59 or whatever yards......do you really think he's going to make it? Anyway, the kid is an unknown and is doing ok in TC. TT probably feels that this kid's upside is greater than that of Cundiff. If the writing is on the wall, why delay the inevitable...get rid of the guy that you don't see making it, hence Cundiff gets cut. Now, all the time in TC can be devoted to one kicker instead of split between the two. Raynor will definitely benefit by being the only kicker in camp.

Now, will Raynor be the starting kicker on Sept. 10. I have no clue. But keep in mind, if it's not Raynor, it could be Cundiff and if it's not either it'll be someone that is about equal in ability. So....in the long run, what does it hurt to cut Cundiff now if, at the worst case scenario you are replacing him with someone of equal ability.

There's going to be growing pains in the kicking game this year whether we as fans like it or not. Us Packer fans were a little spoiled with Longwell...up until last year, he was an automatic from 45 yards and less. (I 'll spare you on my theory of Longwell's play past year)

[Patler]

Cundiff is what he is.
Rayner can be better than Cundiff, even if he isn't right now.

The fact that TT and MM are willing to suffer some short term pain for a potential long term advantage is a VERY good thing for Packer fans.

Besides, if Rayner flops, there will be kickers available who are the equivalent of Cundiff, and maybe even Cundiff himself.

[LaFours]

In addition to the valuable perspective that you all have already submitted, somewhere I read that Raynor also has the "intangibles" that you look for in a kicker. That being that he has the proper mentality to be a kicker in this league. Couple that with his leg (which by most accounts is stronger that Cundiff's) and his youth/ability to progress and I think the decision is well-founded. I think its kind of exciting that TT & MM (who I assume was in on the decision) felt that way about the kid. Giving him the rest of training camp to prove himself will also boost his confidence in himself and that can't hurt either. All in all they have set Raynor up to succeed. It's up to him now.

Carpe Diem Raynor!

[SkinBasket]

Never thought I would see so much angst over the release of a mid to low level kicker.

[Noodle]

This actually played out pretty well for TT. He brings in the mediocre Cundiff just in case, gets a strong legged young 'un in to camp who proves he can get the job done, and then ditches the just in case guy because we don't need him now.

Cold, effective GM work, from my perspective.

Now, returning to the horse I like to beat, a great GM would have extended Longwell last year when Longwell was slumping. I'm telling you, if TT had come with the love the Monday after the Steeler game, where he missed right before halftime from 30 or something, we wouldn't be having this debate.

But, given that we are, I think TT's handling this right. And no one in his right mind believed that we had any real shot at Vinateri.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I got no problem with the Cundiff release. Raynor looks like a solid kicker and has a great leg for KO. Hey, if he boots it into the end zone instead of the 5-10 yard line like we have been seeing in the past, I'm all for it. Seems to me that kicking is more about confidence than anything else. Show confidence in the young man and likely he'll perform better.

[SkinBasket]

BTW woody, was it really necessary to make this post in one thread (the correct one), then use that post to make an entirely new thread with such a non-specific title? Its redundant and messy.

[Brohm]

Cundiff got tossed because he lipped off to the ST coach and generally had a bad attitude. Given there was not that great a difference between the two kickers, they went with youth and potential. I figure we're not a SB contender anyways lets find ourselves a good up-and comer FA...like we did with Longwell.