PLEASE ANYONE - HELP ME to Understand !!

[woodbuck27]

As for helping you understand TT........

I think TT is just like any other good GM when evaluating talent. Like you said Woodbuck, we watch the packers closely, as close as anything else we watch, but we just don't always see the winner develop. TT most likely saw that Rayner had a stronger leg than Cuniff, had more potential, and was almost, if not, as accurate. There was no clear winner at this position, that's why TT did what he did.

I just can't see this happening with Jon Ryan because IMO he is the clear winner. He out punts BJ by an average of almost 10 yards and his hang time is just getting better. If Jon Ryan was to get cut, I would also need help understanding that move.

I'm concerned about just that being the case. Harvey really got me to thinking, and Jon Ryan has to get the ball off faster and improve some on consistency with his hang time.

He has to be able to angle the ball more consistently out of bounds, as deep as possible, and stop shanking the ball.

DAM. Last season - poor BJ Sander was too often, it semed to me, having to punt from way back near OUR end of the field - from around the 20 yard line back, and that pressure had to hurt him.

Thanks.

GO PACKERS ! HOLD THE FAITH !!

[Brohm]

Just think its funny that Longwell beat out the 3rd round pick Brett Conway and now we are hoping that a FA punter beats out the current 3rd rounder BJ Sanders Just say no to using picks on punters/kickers....

[BlueBrewer]

Why couldn't we have Raynor for a kick off specialist and 50=yarders and sign a proven vet for place kicking

[woodbuck27]

pittstang5;

It's interesting that as you expressed that maybe Billy Cundiff does get back in the door. Maybe - Ted Thompson doesn't like either of them, and because Billy Cundiff is the Vet bet. the two, (he was upfront with Cundiff) and said maybe - something like this;

" you'll possibly be better off trying out elsewhere now Billy, as I can't gurantee you a job in Green Bay but it's up to you ". . . and Billy decided to ask to be released? It's difficult to speculate on. I was - quite frankly shocked that Cubdiff was released this soon. moreso this AM when i awoke.I'm always slow -a day late in my REAL reactions to thing by self discipline personal training.

I try to stay very cool and people who know me - know that when I'm not "just there" something serious is going down with me. I never stay upset very long - unless it's a matter of betrayal.

I believe that Dave Raynor has to show he has it in the next two preseason games pittstang5 or he's gone too. Raynor is younger and full of piss n' vinegar, and he wants the job and feels it's his. Good for him and he has a mighty leg and is unproven but so what!! he has to get it done or he's at the EXIT door.

Now he has to prove he's OUR kicker.

Maybe - as Packer fans here, we'll get a better handle on who Ted Thompson is but I've never observed many in PRO sports that is harder to read. I can't trust any man unless I know him. Ted thompson has alot to do with my LOVE of the Packers.

Let me see. I've been just there (in the NFL) for about 46 - 47 Year's. DAM that has been a short time.

Being Canadian, I observe the NHL and have done so since I was a boy of 7-8 years of age. Lots of the press discuss's the varios teams Head coach and also the GM's in the National hockey League (NHL). Hockey is almost a religion up here. Football is popular, but NFL football would take a second seat to the CFL, Canadian Football League.

Hockey and Baseball as well, are really bigger from a standpoint of fan support/interest than the NFL I'd bet, but we love the NFL as well. What does a sportsfan do come Sunday and especially monday but watch the NFL?

Trades are BIG in the NHL, and the fans here are all over them. Same as MLB. It's different on that front ( in the NFL ) even moreso than in the CFL, People like Harvey or Patler ( and several other really strong football people here ) may have a grip on why that's the case?

PACKERRATS.

I have an agenda, of wanting this Forum, to be a place where we all learn alot more, about the inner sanctums of NFL football, and the way the game is set in strategy ( the technicle side of the game) ; so as to enhance OUR experience as fans, of not only the Packers but the NFL.

Posters here, should be ready to supply competent information to the PACKERRATS Forum, for what it's worth to the whole. Just like we do in Romper room.Really be there for ecveryone and none of that . . . what in "F" does he know attitude in here.

Smart people act SMART. Intelligence/smarts has little to do with arrogance and ignorance and attacks that are very minimal at PACKERRATS.

This place is getting better and it should. We deserve that much from one another when the World is a mess.

Thanks so much for your response pittstang5. It was solid/interesting.

GO PACKERS ! HOLD THE FAITH in 2006 and BEYOND !!

[CaliforniaCheez]

Raynor is younger and cheaper.

[woodbuck27]

Cundiff is what he is.
Rayner can be better than Cundiff, even if he isn't right now.

The fact that TT and MM are willing to suffer some short term pain for a potential long term advantage is a VERY good thing for Packer fans.

Besides, if Rayner flops, there will be kickers available who are the equivalent of Cundiff, and maybe even Cundiff himself.

Patler:

Your saying,I believe?

That "in fact" - the HC and ST's Coach and GM Ted Thompson - they made their choice now, and it's Dave Raynor as OUR kicker for better or worse for the season or immediate future.

GO PACKER ! FAITH FOR OUR FUTURE !!

[woodbuck27]

he has also said a lot about hanging out behind the bench and observing the way players interact in forming a team environment. It is possible that Cundiff was not kicking particularly well, but perhaps better than Raynor, but Raynor has a better relationship with the holders and staff and that with him being young, while he might not be the guy we end up with, TT saw more potential in him than Cundiff. Cundiff is a vet and should be kicking better than the youngin' by a much wider margin right now. Maybe Cundiff is as good as he's gonna get and Raynor is showing improvement. There are a lot of possible reasons for this one when on the surface, it might look...well...odd.

Hello Ziggy.

A woman's intuitive thinking can never be discounted as not the fact of a matter.

Thanks MJ.

GO PACKERS ! HOLD THE FAITH FOR OUR FUTURE !!

[woodbuck27]

How can I be better prepared for the release of either punter Jon Ryan and /or WR Ruvell Martin?

They won't be released, you have my word...

I believe they both have fought hard for the privalege of being Green Bay Packers PaCkFan_n_MD. I am sure pulling for these young prospects.

Thanks, PaCkFan_n_MD.

GO PACKERS ! FAITH in the BEST 53 Man Roster and PS for 2006 !!

[woodbuck27]

I would have to think that if Billy Cundiff can't kick well enough in the semi-dome of warm weather Dallas, who were desperate for a kicker, he would have a hard time kicking in Green Bay.

Good point man! Thanks Badgepack.

GO PACKERS ! FOR - PICKING ONLY THE MOST DESERVING PLAYERS !!

[woodbuck27]

Re: TT

I'm not gonna jump on TT for this one. He did try to sign Vinateri but it just did'nt work out. The way I see it, some team will cut a promising kicker with-in the next week or 2 and it will be up to TT to find him. That's what he gets paid for.

Packnut;

Thanks packer fan. You and I thing similiarly.

I call it "the Belichick method".

THE PACKERS ! WILL COMPETE AGAIN !!

[Bretsky]

Cundiff is what he is.
Rayner can be better than Cundiff, even if he isn't right now.

The fact that TT and MM are willing to suffer some short term pain for a potential long term advantage is a VERY good thing for Packer fans.

Besides, if Rayner flops, there will be kickers available who are the equivalent of Cundiff, and maybe even Cundiff himself.

Suffer short term for long term gain ????

Are you talking the offensive line or kickers now ? Sounds the same to me

[woodbuck27]

In addition to the valuable perspective that you all have already submitted, somewhere I read that Raynor also has the "intangibles" that you look for in a kicker. That being that he has the proper mentality to be a kicker in this league. Couple that with his leg (which by most accounts is stronger that Cundiff's) and his youth/ability to progress and I think the decision is well-founded. I think its kind of exciting that TT & MM (who I assume was in on the decision) felt that way about the kid. Giving him the rest of training camp to prove himself will also boost his confidence in himself and that can't hurt either. All in all they have set Raynor up to succeed. It's up to him now.

Carpe Diem Raynor!

Yes LaFours. I think so too. I don't disagree with going to Dave Raynor but the timing did surprise me . . and here we go !!

As Patler said it's done. That was what I interpreted from a National Press reporter's account of this move, as well. Was it Adam Scheffler? I read too much.

Thanks for your response Packer fan.

GO PACKERS ! HOLD FOR FAITH. We are the Green Bay Packers as fans.

What a privalege we enjoy !!

[woodbuck27]

Never thought I would see so much angst over the release of a mid to low level kicker.

Good day, SkinBasket. Nice to see you post here.

How's it shaken out?

You get in here (as you can), and sort all this stuff out Ehh!!

Trusting that LIFE is treating you well.

my name is Ed.

GO PACKERS ! FAITH FOR 2006 !!

[woodbuck27]

This actually played out pretty well for TT. He brings in the mediocre Cundiff just in case, gets a strong legged young 'un in to camp who proves he can get the job done, and then ditches the just in case guy because we don't need him now.

Cold, effective GM work, from my perspective.

Now, returning to the horse I like to beat, a great GM would have extended Longwell last year when Longwell was slumping. I'm telling you, if TT had come with the love the Monday after the Steeler game, where he missed right before halftime from 30 or something, we wouldn't be having this debate.

But, given that we are, I think TT's handling this right. And no one in his right mind believed that we had any real shot at Vinateri.

Hey Noodle:

I LOVE IT !!!!

Hahahahahahahahaha.

Your telling it - the way it must be told on any given FRIDAY.

Beautiful Man - EX CELL ENT !! X 10

and that's ALL he (Noodle) wrote.

Have a GREAT WEEKEND Noodle.

GO PACKERS !!

[woodbuck27]

I got no problem with the Cundiff release. Raynor looks like a solid kicker and has a great leg for KO. Hey, if he boots it into the end zone instead of the 5-10 yard line like we have been seeing in the past, I'm all for it. Seems to me that kicking is more about confidence than anything else. Show confidence in the young man and likely he'll perform better.

" I'm all for it. Seems to me that kicking is more about confidence than anything else. Show confidence in the young man and likely he'll perform better. " Cheesehead Craig

DAM ! STRAIGHT !! PACKER FAN !!

YOU gotta LOVE it .

There is nothing like straight talk. Now let's go for a beer.

GO PACKERS ! LET's GO FOR STAIGHT !!