Have Olympics diminished excitement over football training camps?

[Gunakor]

That's a matter of perception, Gunakor: by losing that game, in fact they did an effort to increase their chances to win gold by drawing an easier opponent in the next round. They had their eyes on the big prize and did everything to improve their chances to reach that.

It's not really a matter of perception. They were trying to lose the game. They weren't trying to lose the tournament, but they were actually putting forth a strong effort to lose the game. They didn't even try to mask that.

Agreed that the round-robin format that promotes this strategy needs to be changed, but that's no excuse for what happened IMO. If you beat every team you play against they put a gold medal around your neck and play your national anthem. The goal should be to win. Every game, every point. Not just the tournament.

[wootah]

Ok, what then with the high jumpers who forfeit jumps in order to give their opponent less time to rest? Should they be banned as well? That's who the gold medal was won in 2008 for women's high jump, by the way.

[LegandofthePack15]

When the Packers sub in Flynn for Rodgers in week 17 they're still trying to win the game. When the Colts sub for Manning the last few games they aren't throwing the game, tanking on purpose in an effort to lose. They're playing reserve players rather than their starters but they're still playing to win. There's a difference between not putting forth your best effort to win vs. putting forth your best effort to lose. Those badminton teams were trying as hard as they could to lose the game. That's the difference, and it's very significant.

I'm sure the top ranked Chinese badminton team would play inferior talent if they could. The bottom line is, regardless of whether its the lack of effort or playing inferior talent, the message is the same: teams/players are willing to lose at least a battle to win the war.

Its an optimal strategy if losing a meaningless game gives you easier opponents or provides you with better health in elimination rounds.

Think McCarthy wouldve played Flynn instead of a healthy Rodgers if a playoff birth was on the line against the Lions? By sitting Rodgers, McCarthy pretty much was implying that that he was willing to lose the game.

It sure wouldve been nice if the NFL had suspended Randy Moss for taking plays off during his inglorious mooning days.

[hoosier]

Ok, what then with the high jumpers who forfeit jumps in order to give their opponent less time to rest? Should they be banned as well? That's who the gold medal was won in 2008 for women's high jump, by the way.

Forfeiting a turn isn't comparable to tanking a game either. The premise of a game is that each team or player is trying its best to win, regardless of who is playing. When one group of players (or both groups) are visibly trying to lose, then it's no longer a game. Forfeiting a turn, on the other hand, might conceivably be part of a player's strategy to win the game. A game has an organic unity to it, and by trying to lose you destroy that unity.

[Harlan Huckleby]

organic unity

Madtown, I think this clown needs a little time out. I suggest a 1 day ban.

[ThunderDan]

Ok, what then with the high jumpers who forfeit jumps in order to give their opponent less time to rest? Should they be banned as well? That's who the gold medal was won in 2008 for women's high jump, by the way.

I am not sure you are quite right on this. A high jumper can "skip" there turn at a certain height but they still get the same number of jumps at the next higher level.

If the bar is set at 6'7" and you have three misses left you can pass wait for the 6'8" level and you still have the three attempts left. You don't get two tries because you skipped the previous height.

[Gunakor]

Think McCarthy wouldve played Flynn instead of a healthy Rodgers if a playoff birth was on the line against the Lions? By sitting Rodgers, McCarthy pretty much was implying that that he was willing to lose the game.

Willing to lose is not the same as actively trying to lose. That's the difference. At no point in time were McCarthy and Flynn and the Green Bay Packers actively trying to lose. Flynn wasn't pulling a Paul Crewe and throwing the game. Jordy Nelson wasn't dropping easy balls, James Starks wasn't fumbling on purpose. Those guys were playing their hearts out to win that game. And they did, in historic fashion. The two situations are absolutely nothing alike.

The badminton teams were trying to lose at all costs, not simply playing subpar with no regard to winning. It's like a soccer team kicking the ball into their own net repeatedly. It's Jim Marshall running the wrong way on purpose. It isn't giving half ass effort because you're willing to lose, it's giving full ass effort TYRING to lose. That's what makes this wrong on so many levels. It's absolutely disgusting and has no business on an Olympic stage. I salute the IOC for their decision.

Seriously, if you have gold medal aspirations and gold medal talent, what difference does it make if you play the #2 seed in the quarterfinals or the #8 seed? You are gonna have to beat the best at some point to win that gold, right? What difference does it make which day you play?

[pbmax]

Put Flynn in and yes, technically, you are still trying to win. But it clearly doesn't matter if you do. The Badmintoners were guilty of actually gaining an advantage from losing.

That's on the organization, not the team. They team was trying to achieve as much as possible. Losing a battle to win a war is acceptable.

[hoosier]

In any seeding scheme there will always be the possibility that you could gain an advantage by losing, because whatever criteria is used for seeding, there can always be a team that is objectively worse than others but which nobody really wants to face or which presents a bad matchup for a particular high seeded team. So if it's on the organization and not the team, then seeding itself is the problem.

I'm not quite convinced by the losing the battle to win the war argument. Not when you have people who have already forked out money expecting a real contest. And, for different reasons, it seems to me that something in the badminton episode violates the "amateur" spirt of the Olympics. But maybe that spirit is really just a thing of the past.

[swede]

And, for different reasons, it seems to me that something in the badminton episode violates the "amateur" spirt of the Olympics. But maybe that spirit is really just a thing of the past.

John Gielgud called. he wants his "Spirit of the Amateur" meme back. :

[KYPack]

This thread is starting to suck.

Time to get things on track with mention of the USA Women's volleyball star, Destiny Hooker.

Destiny Hooker, no shit.

[denverYooper]

Destiny is a baller.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I've been watching all the women's beach volleyball games, initially in search of the faint outlines of the labia majora that upnorth captured in the picture he posted. Turns out I was looking for love in all the wrong places, because I have totally fallen in love with the sport of beach volleyball. Actually, I knew it was a great sport already, I've been reminded. It is way more athletic and spectacular than regular volleyball, Destiny Hooker or not. Six players on a side is too robotic, IMO. It's amazing how unexpectedly quick and strong those women are. The shorter women are usually more impressive, they have to fool the blockers with body control & clever shots.

[KYPack]

You cannot stop Destiny Hooker, you can only hope to contain her.

[pbmax]

Please tell me Destiny Hooker is related to Fair Hooker, a WR for the Browns in the 70s. That name MUST live on.