TIME TO BE CONCERNED ?

[Pugger]

I wonder if Neal and/or Hargrove even make the team when their suspensions are up? I have heard very little about Neal in camp. The encouraging thing is that he has been healthy, but he doesn't seem to be turning any heads. They may have the same player in Merling. I know they like Hargrove's intensity and personality, but is that enough? It sounds like Daniels might be a similar personality.

By the time the suspensions are up, a rotation of Picket, Raji, Wilson, Worthy, Daniels and Wynnmerlingmuir might not have a glaring need for a replacement.

MM had said Neal and Hargrove are not getting as many reps as the guys who will be available once the season starts. I suspect we'll be glad to have these two around once their suspensions are up if we have some injuries on that line.

[Smeefers]

I'm not worried at all. Not even a little bit.

Harrell: I'm willing to bet if you put tape up of Rodgers, Flynn and Harrell up to each other in there first year, they'd all pretty much look the same. Give the kid some time before you get rid of him. I remember way back when Rodgers was a rookie, he looked like garbage. Same thing with flynn. Every year that happens, there's talk of signing a veteran. Every year that doesn't happen. Our problem is that we just went from the best back up in the league to just some dude. Everyone else has to deal with that too. It is highly unlikely that any team out there can go win a super bowl with a back up QB.

LT: Sherrod is still out and until he gets healthy and gets some practice time, we're thin here. We're going to stay thin there. If Newhouse were to get hurt, they'd move over Lang and put EDS in at guard. It's not perfect, but it's not like there's no back up. Once again, when you're dealing with worst case scenarios, the outcome is never going to be "they played better than the starter!"

RB: They're all hurt/couldn't play. Not worried at all. It's not like we run the ball anyway. What I'm looking forward to seeing is a comparrison of benson to the guys we got. He's pretty legit. We're going to find out real quick if Starks, green and saine are half way decent backs or just some dudes who suit up. I also think if Benson struggles mightily, that may point more towards our offensive line than to our running backs.

Smith: The dude's not going to be as good as Bishop. We lost our leading tackler from a year ago, that spells trouble. All we can do is hope that he's good enough that the other LB's can cover for his short comings. Pun intended. (He's short.)

CB's: Looking forward to see who pulls out as the other starting corner. Before preseason began, I honestly thought we were going to see a lot of Bush on the field, but God I hope I'm wrong and one of those other fellas wins out. I'm very disapointed in shields.

Overall: It's preseason. It's game tape for coaches to look at so they can decide whether to cut this 3rd stringer or that 3rd stringer. It also allows the 1st and 2nd stringers to battle it out for positions. I'm sure much of the defense was called in a way to see how certain players work on certain match ups. See how they perform when things are unfavorable towards them and what not. These games I take with a grain of salt.

[denverYooper]

I wonder if Neal and/or Hargrove even make the team when their suspensions are up? I have heard very little about Neal in camp. The encouraging thing is that he has been healthy, but he doesn't seem to be turning any heads. They may have the same player in Merling. I know they like Hargrove's intensity and personality, but is that enough? It sounds like Daniels might be a similar personality.

By the time the suspensions are up, a rotation of Picket, Raji, Wilson, Worthy, Daniels and Wynnmerlingmuir might not have a glaring need for a replacement.

I've been thinking the same about Neal. He didn't seem to do much in the scrimmage either. I realize that he's not getting as many reps in practice but his strength was the head-turning part of his game and he didn't seem to be moving even Cleveland's backup OL the way he used to. I sort of wonder if he's not the same without his "medicine".

[Patler]

MM had said Neal and Hargrove are not getting as many reps as the guys who will be available once the season starts. I suspect we'll be glad to have these two around once their suspensions are up if we have some injuries on that line.

Of course, if someone is injured, these two will be welcomed returnees; but, if the original group is healthy, I don't think it is certain one will be released just to make room for either Hargrove or Neal.

[OS PA]

I'm not worried at all. Not even a little bit.

Harrell: I'm willing to bet if you put tape up of Rodgers, Flynn and Harrell up to each other in there first year, they'd all pretty much look the same. Give the kid some time before you get rid of him. I remember way back when Rodgers was a rookie, he looked like garbage. Same thing with flynn.

I think we're all forgetting that the kid, Harrell, is 27 years old.

[Joemailman]

Originally Posted by Smeefers
I'm not worried at all. Not even a little bit.

Harrell: I'm willing to bet if you put tape up of Rodgers, Flynn and Harrell up to each other in there first year, they'd all pretty much look the same. Give the kid some time before you get rid of him. I remember way back when Rodgers was a rookie, he looked like garbage. Same thing with flynn.

I think we're all forgetting that the kid, Harrell, is 27 years old.

Plus he's in his 3rd season with the Packers. By Rodgers' 3rd season, he was a starting-caliber QB. As was Flynn.

[Pugger]

I'm not worried at all. Not even a little bit.

Harrell: I'm willing to bet if you put tape up of Rodgers, Flynn and Harrell up to each other in there first year, they'd all pretty much look the same. Give the kid some time before you get rid of him. I remember way back when Rodgers was a rookie, he looked like garbage. Same thing with flynn. Every year that happens, there's talk of signing a veteran. Every year that doesn't happen. Our problem is that we just went from the best back up in the league to just some dude. Everyone else has to deal with that too. It is highly unlikely that any team out there can go win a super bowl with a back up QB.

LT: Sherrod is still out and until he gets healthy and gets some practice time, we're thin here. We're going to stay thin there. If Newhouse were to get hurt, they'd move over Lang and put EDS in at guard. It's not perfect, but it's not like there's no back up. Once again, when you're dealing with worst case scenarios, the outcome is never going to be "they played better than the starter!"

RB: They're all hurt/couldn't play. Not worried at all. It's not like we run the ball anyway. What I'm looking forward to seeing is a comparrison of benson to the guys we got. He's pretty legit. We're going to find out real quick if Starks, green and saine are half way decent backs or just some dudes who suit up. I also think if Benson struggles mightily, that may point more towards our offensive line than to our running backs.

Smith: The dude's not going to be as good as Bishop. We lost our leading tackler from a year ago, that spells trouble. All we can do is hope that he's good enough that the other LB's can cover for his short comings. Pun intended. (He's short.)

CB's: Looking forward to see who pulls out as the other starting corner. Before preseason began, I honestly thought we were going to see a lot of Bush on the field, but God I hope I'm wrong and one of those other fellas wins out. I'm very disapointed in shields.

Overall: It's preseason. It's game tape for coaches to look at so they can decide whether to cut this 3rd stringer or that 3rd stringer. It also allows the 1st and 2nd stringers to battle it out for positions. I'm sure much of the defense was called in a way to see how certain players work on certain match ups. See how they perform when things are unfavorable towards them and what not. These games I take with a grain of salt.

But Harrell isn't a rookie. He's 27 years old and has been in this offense since 2010.

edit: I see I'm not alone in my thinking here...

[Harlan Huckleby]

Harrell is sort of like an android QB planted by aliens. He certainly looks like a QB, almost too perfectly so. He's calm under pressure. He throws reasonably well, although with a slightly halting action. I guess he's a QB, but something's just not right.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Of course, if someone is injured, these two will be welcomed returnees; but, if the original group is healthy, I don't think it is certain one will be released just to make room for either Hargrove or Neal.

I agree that Neal and Hargrove aren't locks to make the roster when their suspensions are up. Of course, it's nice that they'll be around if we have injuries at DL. I like Muir the most between him, Merling, and Wynn.

[pbmax]

I just wrote a manifesto about keeping 7 DL to both backup all the sub packages AND have an back at end for base but then it occurred to me; there are problems with any such plan. Keep 7 also give the team an option to keep Neal and I don't think they want to part with the most natural 3-4 end they have yet.

But the rest of the D may not let them. The Packers have Perry on the roster to replace an OLB last year, but what about Manning? Do they trust him to replace Bishops roster spot or will he be an extra body at LB? And at safety there are a lot of young players to choose from, plus someone to replace Woodson outside and that doesn't even get into the question about House's health.

6 DL is going to run thin for some of the sub packages, but when only 2 at most are on the field, I don't think they can carry 7.

[pbmax]

I agree that Neal and Hargrove aren't locks to make the roster when their suspensions are up. Of course, it's nice that they'll be around if we have injuries at DL. I like Muir the most between him, Merling, and Wynn.

Has Muir played any end in practice or games, or is he just inside?

[Patler]

I just wrote a manifesto about keeping 7 DL to both backup all the sub packages AND have an back at end for base but then it occurred to me; there are problems with any such plan. Keep 7 also give the team an option to keep Neal and I don't think they want to part with the most natural 3-4 end they have yet.

But the rest of the D may not let them. The Packers have Perry on the roster to replace an OLB last year, but what about Manning? Do they trust him to replace Bishops roster spot or will he be an extra body at LB? And at safety there are a lot of young players to choose from, plus someone to replace Woodson outside and that doesn't even get into the question about House's health.

6 DL is going to run thin for some of the sub packages, but when only 2 at most are on the field, I don't think they can carry 7.

They tend to have, at most, 5 active for games, sometimes only 4. Unless Worthy or Daniels is considered a total developmental project who won't play but merits a roster spot to hold him (like they did with Giacomini, Newhouse, McDonald, etc.) I think keeping 7 might be a little tough. And, as you suggest, some of developmental spots might be tied up with LBs or DBs and the roster might not have room for a 7th DL.

[RashanGary]

Overall: It's preseason. It's game tape for coaches to look at so they can decide whether to cut this 3rd stringer or that 3rd stringer. It also allows the 1st and 2nd stringers to battle it out for positions. I'm sure much of the defense was called in a way to see how certain players work on certain match ups. See how they perform when things are unfavorable towards them and what not. These games I take with a grain of salt.

Ditto on just about every point, especially this one.


I am a bit concerned about the development of the young lineman. I actually think Neal is having a fine camp. Turgo said a week or two ago Neal is looking like his old self and is looking forward to getting him on the field.

Neal is one of the few guys we have who can hunker down and has the pop to push the pocket a little. He's a very good first down player. He could easily replace Wilson or Pickett at end.

I'd still like to see Pickett playing nose. He's more stout than Raji, and more fundamentally sound. Raji, more than anything else, is a burst player. He can wreak havoc as a pass rusher. I'd love to see him rested as a nose tackle and given more opportunities as a 3-tech.


The DL, as much depth has been added, it's young depth, and that's an area where it's very hard to play the run early. Pass rushers can pass rush out of the gate. Hunkering down though, there is technique and man strength that takes a year or two. It's very hard to see how this line rotation is going to shake out.

I do strongly suspect our 3rd down defense is much improved. We do seem to have run defense issues, but we had all defense issues last year. If we can get off the field when we do force a 3rd and 6 or more, that's a big upgrade over last year and our offense/ST's seems ready to rip roar and tear, so even being a top 20 defense would put us in a much better spot than a year ago.

[Lurker64]

I like Muir the most between him, Merling, and Wynn.

I really think that in that battle, Muir has the hardest time winning it since he's a much tougher fit in base than Merling, Wynn, or Guy. If he wins the spot, then it's his, but I think the coaches would prefer somebody else win it. We already have a bunch of NT/3T types.

[RashanGary]

I forget about Muir. As much as he doesn't quite fit the DE type for our scheme, he can hunker down and has the burst to get a little push. If you get Neal back, you could easily go Neal/Pickett/Muir and still get a little push out of your ends while being strong against the run. As poorly as the taller guys are playing, if you want to save Raji for sub packages, that actually looks like one of the most effective base looks we could have.