Negatives

[Patler]

Shouldn't the Packers be taught to knock down a hail Mary pass? I mean, why catch it at all?

In retrospect, his best option with both hands under the ball may have been to "scoop" it over his head and launch it ten rows into the bleachers. That is purely with the benefit of hindsight. I'm certainly not criticizing him for intercepting it.

While Jennings couldn't have done this because of the scrum in front of him, some coaches do teach players not to complete the interception, and instead throw it directly to the ground at their feet, simply to prevent having it stolen from them. For example, had Shields not been interfered with and gotten his hands on the ball in front of the scrum, he could have grabbed it and thrown it at his feet. But even that has risks. A few years ago a player did that, it hit another player on the ground and bounced into the arms of a third player outside of the endzone, who strolled in for a TD.

Massive players all in a group fighting for an oblong ball, odd things will happen even without help from the officials.

[rbaloha1]

Shouldn't the Packers be taught to knock down a hail Mary pass? I mean, why catch it at all?

That is a perfect case scenario. IMO MD did the right thing under game conditions. It was an incorrect call and not a bad play by Jennings.

[run pMc]

I thought Bulaga historically struggles with speed rushers. If there's a reason he's at RT and not LT, it's probably because he doesn't have the feet. Irvin and Clemons are quick -- Irvin is WR fast -- and with a road game in a very loud stadium, being a fraction slow on the get-off can be tough to recover from. Running ball and using draws/screens to slow that down is the way to go and M3 waited to long to adjust.

Rodgers held the ball too long, but I'm guessing the pass patterns were too slow developing. Plus, the replacement refs have not been enforcing the 5 yard contact rule anywhere close to the regular refs. When you have 6'-2" corners who can mug wideouts beyond 5 yards, that makes it hard to gain separation and really helps the pass rush.

Driver dropped a tough catch in the end zone and had to settle for a Crosby FG...catching that would have made the difference in the ballgame. Don't recall too many other drops, but the WR's didn't have a great game. They struggle against aggressive press/bump coverage and this was no exception.

Kind of perfect storm of things conspiring against GB...maybe it was just a bad matchup? If this game were in Lambeau I think the result would have been different...that crowd was noisy but after playing yearly in the Metrodome they should be used to it.

Benson is what he is...not going to break off many long runs. M3 is going to have to ride him and the short passing game to loosen up defenses. The quick strike downfield stuff is being defended (effectively) with press-man/2 deep safety shell looks. M3 and Co. have had enough time to figure out ways to counter this...time to do it. Benson/Starks/Green will play a role in that, but they have to be able to get more than 2.5ypc and convert 1st downs.

Wondered about MDJennings just batting the ball down too, or batting it out of bounds...but regardless that was an interception. So many wrong things about that last play. Won't even get into it here other than to say
the Replacement refs are just terrible. Game not being controlled by them, flags seem more arbitrary than ever. Missed the OPI call on Rice and flagged Shields, and the roughing call on Walden was iffy. The call on Chancellor that kept a TD drive going was pretty iffy too.

The D played well overall. I think that stringing together some 10-play TD drives will benefit the defense. They can't give up any yards if they aren't on the field. Lynch is a tough runner to bring down, but like AP in MN, he's the focus of their offense and if you can limit him that offense can get bogged down. Would like to see more from Worthy, but it's early. Perry was ok. Heyward has shown some savvy. McMillian hasn't been a liability.

[denverYooper]

Not that it mitigates some of Bulaga's other struggles this year, but on one of the sacks, Irvin's hands were clearly up in Bulaga's face and neck. That probably should have been called.

[Patler]

Not that it mitigates some of Bulaga's other struggles this year, but on one of the sacks, Irvin's hands were clearly up in Bulaga's face and neck. That probably should have been called.

I remember that one, and at the time I thought he has had several like that, with guys getting their hands high and knocking him off balance backwards.

So, all you old O-linemen, is that a technique problem, letting the pass rusher get his hands inside and high on him like that?

[wist43]

Maybe you missed the second half where the offense kicked the crap out of Seattle's D. Maybe you missed the entire game, where our D kicked the crap out of their offense and allowed essentially one play the entire game. Geesus some times you are totally irascible.

Okay ayn, I went back thru the DVR and watched the whole game.

After further review, the ruling on the field stands - the Packers are still a fancy pants football team.

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Aside from the OL being obviously effeminate, some things that stood out were,

1) 3rd and 5 from the Seahawk 5 yd line, under 2 min. in the 1st half, and Fancy Pants Capers (his new official nickname) rolls out his vaunted 1-10 dime defense.
Result - Lynch runs for an easy 1st down, and we don't get the ball back in good field position to end the 1st half.

2) 1st and 10 for the Seahawks, after the our TD, and the roughing penalty on Walden - Fancy Pants Capers goes into his fancy pants 2-4 nickel.
Result - Lynch runs twice for 11 yards. Easy 1st down; Wilson scrambles for another easy 1st down.

3) 4th and 2 from the Packer 17 after Fancy Pants Capers lets them waltz down the field - Fancy Pants Capers lines up in his fancy pants 2-4 nickel again.
Result - duh, run by Lynch, easy 1st down.

Those are just a few examples of Capers flag football philosophy.

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As for the OL, there's just no defending that mess. Bulaga was nothing short of dreadful. Saturday weighs 150 lbs, and plays like he weighs 96 lbs. Newhouse was a complete disaster. 8 sacks in the 1st half?? Go ahead and try to defend that

The Packers are a fundamentally flawed football team. They're philosophically soft on both sides of the ball, and simply can't match up with tough, physical teams. Against other fancy pants teams?? we're as good as anyone else I suppose - but tough, physical teams know full well they can simply beat the hell out of us physically and walk off the field with a win.

[Rutnstrut]

I have said this before here and got attacked for it but what the hell. Rodgers seems so worried about throwing picks that he doesn't try throws he could make. He holds the ball way to long, and ends up getting sacked. He doesn't need to be a "gunslinger" but he needs to gamble once in a while, it seems he doesn't trust his accuracy. For some reason he also seems less willing to pull it down and run.

[mraynrand]

Okay ayn, I went back thru the DVR and watched the whole game.

After further review, the ruling on the field stands - the Packers are still a fancy pants football team.

------------------------------------------------------------

Aside from the OL being obviously effeminate, some things that stood out were,

1) 3rd and 5 from the Seahawk 5 yd line, under 2 min. in the 1st half, and Fancy Pants Capers (his new official nickname) rolls out his vaunted 1-10 dime defense.
Result - Lynch runs for an easy 1st down, and we don't get the ball back in good field position to end the 1st half.

2) 1st and 10 for the Seahawks, after the our TD, and the roughing penalty on Walden - Fancy Pants Capers goes into his fancy pants 2-4 nickel.
Result - Lynch runs twice for 11 yards. Easy 1st down; Wilson scrambles for another easy 1st down.

3) 4th and 2 from the Packer 17 after Fancy Pants Capers lets them waltz down the field - Fancy Pants Capers lines up in his fancy pants 2-4 nickel again.
Result - duh, run by Lynch, easy 1st down.

Those are just a few examples of Capers flag football philosophy.

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How many points did they score on these drives?

[run pMc]

I have said this before here and got attacked for it but what the hell. Rodgers seems so worried about throwing picks that he doesn't try throws he could make. He holds the ball way to long, and ends up getting sacked. He doesn't need to be a "gunslinger" but he needs to gamble once in a while, it seems he doesn't trust his accuracy. For some reason he also seems less willing to pull it down and run.

Sorry to hear you've been attacked on this. I think he's much less of a risktaker than his predecessor...going back to his Cal days he's pretty risk averse. I wonder if that's something he was coached to do -- checkdown or throw away instead of risking the INT. I think any NFL QB is going to have a little bit of guts and moxie, so I'm thinking it's that as much as not wanting to rack up lots of negative stats and put your defense in a hole.

Also thinking the "pull down and run" is something he does judiciously. Seems like he scrambles less than he used to...but he will rollout or move around to avoid the rush and buy time for a downfield strike. Every coach and half the crowd holds their breath when the QB takes off running. I think he's still considered a threat to take off a couple times a game, but he's not exactly Vick or Newton. I would rather not see Harrell come into the game unless it's for the victory formation.

Agree he's been holding the ball too long. I think that's gotta be play calling (not enough short/intermediate routes) and the way the refs are not enforcing the 5 yard contact rule. Can't throw it if the WR's aren't open. Personally, I think his accuracy isn't quite as sharp as it was last year, so maybe there's some hesitancy there as well. You'd think with the use of a 2.5s alarm clock in camp that he'd be getting rid of the ball quick.

[wist43]

How many points did they score on these drives?

Consider that the 3rd and 5 where Fancy Pants allowed the easy 1st down, when a stop would have had them punting out of their own endzone - count that as a minimum of -3 pts that we never got a shot at.

The other easy 1st downs changed the field position to the point where we couldn't get back into field goal range, punted out of our own end zone, and put Seattle in position to heave a prayer into the end zone, so that's 7 pts that lost us the game; and a shot at a minimum of another FG that could have won the game. So, -10 pts there.

13 point swing right there - at a minimum.

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Ball control, don't make mistakes, play tough defense teams don't need the scoreboard to roll like a pinball machine. They can simply control the game with defense and field position. We're 0-2 against such teams this year - going back to the Chiefs game last year, our record is 3-4; and in all 4 losses we were simply beat up physically.

We play the Saints this week... the scoreboard should roll like a pinball machine, and Packer nation will certainly be happy with that; but our shortcomings will still be there and will be on full display when the Texans beat the living hell out of us.

[denverYooper]

It's pretty hard to get too down on the defense this year. Last year they would have given up 300 yards to Russel Wilson. It doesn't actually look like Keystone Kops on the backend any more.

You can attribute it to playing bad opponents, but they were even bad against bad teams last year, routinely giving up real estate to mediocre and rookie QBs.

[wist43]

It's pretty hard to get too down on the defense this year. Last year they would have given up 300 yards to Russel Wilson. It doesn't actually look like Keystone Kops on the backend any more.

You can attribute it to playing bad opponents, but they were even bad against bad teams last year, routinely giving up real estate to mediocre and rookie QBs.

I'm onboard with the improved personnel, and the back end has been cleaned up a little; but they've certainly had numerous breakdowns already this year - Vernon Davis catching a ball in the middle of the field, and not a Packer in sight; Randy Moss so alone in the end zone, that he had to be wondering if the play had been blown dead and he was the only one still playing; and Golden Tate's easy catch Monday night.

We've faced 1 average offense, and 2 lousy offenses... SF and Seattle pushed us around with ease b/c of Fancy Pants Capers gimmick alignments. Capers refusal to recognize that the game is more than a 7 on 7 passing drill will cost us all season long, and will certainly result in more losses. Capers is a huge problem, and needs to go.

[King Friday]

Capers is a huge problem, and needs to go.

He won us a Super Bowl. His defense has played well enough to win 3 games this year if the offense realized there was more to the game than 30 yard pass plays.

We could do a lot worse.

[Joemailman]

I'm onboard with the improved personnel, and the back end has been cleaned up a little; but they've certainly had numerous breakdowns already this year - Vernon Davis catching a ball in the middle of the field, and not a Packer in sight; Randy Moss so alone in the end zone, that he had to be wondering if the play had been blown dead and he was the only one still playing; and Golden Tate's easy catch Monday night.

We've faced 1 average offense, and 2 lousy offenses... SF and Seattle pushed us around with ease b/c of Fancy Pants Capers gimmick alignments. Capers refusal to recognize that the game is more than a 7 on 7 passing drill will cost us all season long, and will certainly result in more losses. Capers is a huge problem, and needs to go.

You really are a bit of a joke. Seattle pushed the Packers defense around? Seattle had 250 yards and would have had 230 yards and 7 points but for a TD gift wrapped by the officials. Packers defense has a chance to be as good as in 2010. Of course if that happens and they make another Super Bowl run, I'm sure you'll just disappear from this forum for a while.

[mraynrand]

Consider that the 3rd and 5 where Fancy Pants allowed the easy 1st down, when a stop would have had them punting out of their own endzone - count that as a minimum of -3 pts that we never got a shot at.

The other easy 1st downs changed the field position to the point where we couldn't get back into field goal range, punted out of our own end zone, and put Seattle in position to heave a prayer into the end zone, so that's 7 pts that lost us the game; and a shot at a minimum of another FG that could have won the game. So, -10 pts there.

13 point swing right there - at a minimum.

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Ball control, don't make mistakes, play tough defense teams don't need the scoreboard to roll like a pinball machine. They can simply control the game with defense and field position. We're 0-2 against such teams this year - going back to the Chiefs game last year, our record is 3-4; and in all 4 losses we were simply beat up physically.

We play the Saints this week... the scoreboard should roll like a pinball machine, and Packer nation will certainly be happy with that; but our shortcomings will still be there and will be on full display when the Texans beat the living hell out of us.

So, the answer to my question is zero - zero points allowed on the drives you're talking about. The Defense allowed one play all night. One.

Wist, you're making the mistake of fighting the previous war.