Mice And Men - Texans

[LegandofthePack15]

Nelson paired his drop with some very good catches and an overall fine performance.

Finley paired his drop with an offensive pass interference and nothing of positive significance. Having 24 snaps is enough to make a positive contribution.

J-Mike's interference, refs usually let that that type of play go since it was very close to the 5 yard contact confinement. When they do throw a flag, more often than not, they call it on the defensive player. I've seen Wood get flagged countless times for getting pushed by an offensive player, usually a TE.

I thought Finley had a TD on a play but Rodgers under threw him and it was almost picked off.

The so-called "hate" some of you have Finley reminds me of the so-called hate some Packer fans had for Bill Schroeder when he was in Holmgren's doghouse. We all know what happened next: Schroeder went on to become a starter for the Pack. Since Finley is already a starter, I'm guessing its just a matter of time before he becomes a superstar. Have faith in J-Mike!

[pbmax]

I think McGinn agrees with me somewhat:

At least once a game, Woodson will guess on a route combination and a receiver will be left wide open for about 15-yard gain.

On no, I agree with that. He is a gambler and I think occasionally that seeps over to the other CBs. Its partially encouraged by the coaches who teach some pattern recognition to the CBs themselves, though that is not the same as jumping the route.

However, on that big play to the TE I was referring to, I think the was either Hawk or Jones, because there were three DBs covering three deeper receivers.

[mraynrand]

On no, I agree with that. He is a gambler and I think occasionally that seeps over to the other CBs. Its partially encouraged by the coaches who teach some pattern recognition to the CBs themselves, though that is not the same as jumping the route.

However, on that big play to the TE I was referring to, I think the was either Hawk or Jones, because there were three DBs covering three deeper receivers.

That was all Hawk. He was the only one who seemed not to know man coverage included him too. Octopussy would have covered better there, but I don't think we'd get the anti-middle finger gesture.

[mraynrand]

Nelson paired his drop with some very good catches and an overall fine performance.

Finley paired his drop with an offensive pass interference and nothing of positive significance. Having 24 snaps is enough to make a positive contribution.

Not if the ball doesn't come to you - regardless of whether it's your fault or game situation.

The offensive PI has become a point of emphasis - it was called tight all over the NFL this past weekend (Might have had something to do with some blown calls against GB....) so it's hard for me to get too upset with Finley over that one - but I realize the old T-buck hater crowd has assembled and will pile on for anything Finley does at this point.

[mraynrand]

The so-called "hate" some of you have Finley reminds me of the so-called hate some Packer fans had for Bill Schroeder when he was in Holmgren's doghouse. We all know what happened next: Schroeder went on to become a starter for the Pack. Since Finley is already a starter, I'm guessing its just a matter of time before he becomes a superstar. Have faith in J-Mike!

I think it's the revival of the old T-buck and Ahmad Carroll haters. Whether deserved (Carroll) or not (T-Buck) it helps to have that whipping boy (racist!) or scape goat(animalist!) to beat on.

[pbmax]

Its hard to make any new judgements about Finley while he is injured. But Patler's question does get at the heart of the issue, his role will have to change and the injury makes it a guess as to what. For instance, would blocking be off the list of things he could do? Its an AC joint injury.

[mraynrand]

Its hard to make any new judgements about Finley while he is injured.

that never stopped us before

[mraynrand]

. But Patler's question does get at the heart of the issue, his role will have to change and the injury makes it a guess as to what. For instance, would blocking be off the list of things he could do? Its an AC joint injury.

It depends on how bad the injury is. He played with the spider-web stuff on, but not a harness, right? So maybe it's just not that bad. I don't know how these guys play with those shoulder injuries anyway; I had a pretty serious should sep and I wasn't right for months (well, I'm still not right, but that's another story). Finley is probably a histrionic pussy and will be better after the bye - well, better everywhere except in his screwed-up pussy head.

[pbmax]

that never stopped us before

I know I am up to the task, I am simply trying to be honest about the grudge I hold. Might just be disappointment too.

[Patler]

J-Mike's interference, refs usually let that that type of play go since it was very close to the 5 yard contact confinement. When they do throw a flag, more often than not, they call it on the defensive player. I've seen Wood get flagged countless times for getting pushed by an offensive player, usually a TE.

I thought Finley had a TD on a play but Rodgers under threw him and it was almost picked off.

The so-called "hate" some of you have Finley reminds me of the so-called hate some Packer fans had for Bill Schroeder when he was in Holmgren's doghouse. We all know what happened next: Schroeder went on to become a starter for the Pack. Since Finley is already a starter, I'm guessing its just a matter of time before he becomes a superstar. Have faith in J-Mike!

I don't hate any player, but I do try to objectively evaluate their role on a team, and how they fit in both as to performance and with respect to the salary cap. For a few years many decades ago I was paid for my comments on high school and college players, and much later I ran around the US and Canada for the better part of 20 years to watch and evaluate young hockey players (through Juniors) because of various ownership interests I still have and related team responsibilities I had for 15 years or so. I learned very early to distinguish potential and athletic ability from actual performance on the field or ice. It is very easy to look at a physical specimen who looks great in practice and then give him more credit than he deserves for his actual game performance. It is easy to watch him do something well, looking graceful doing it, and automatically think no one else could have done it because he is just so gifted. But if you watch critically you will often see a much less gifted athlete do the same thing, but much less gracefully. The truly exceptional plays that only few can perform are much less common, and leap out at you.

Had you been here 3 and 4 years ago, you would have seen me as one of Finley's biggest supporters. I praised him at every opportunity for how he changed from his rookie year. I said his change in both attitude and performance were among the best that I remembered. I thought he really was on his way to becoming one of the dominant TEs. At that point, he really was making exceptional plays. I remember him just calmly snatching the ball away from DBs trying to cover him, and looking like a man among boys at times by just physically dominating plays (as a receiver, he has always been a very inconsistent blocker).

Two years ago, while out injured, he seemed to change his attitude again. An aggravation at the time, but no big deal. However, for nearly a season and a half his on the field performance has regressed badly. He now plays "small". The PI call is a good example. His combination of size and athletic skill should allow him to minimize the hand battles with defenders. He does not physically impose himself on the defender. Playing small got him the PI call on Sunday. His best plays are not ones that others can't make, and when given the opportunity to make exceptional plays, he has failed most of the time.

He is in his fifth year. Chances are high that he is all that he will ever be. It is not very common for a player to change dramatically after 5 years in the league, but two things are in Finley's favor with respect to that; he is still quite young having come out very early, and he has been injured often and has not had lengthy, consistent opportunities while not injured. Of course, the injuries raise an entirely different issue in and of themselves when considering his long-term role.

You can only baby along a guy because of potential for so long. I think that time has come for Finley. Five years is a long time in the NFL. As I have said before, if he goes somewhere else, the change of scenery might set him free to become a star, but at this point it is looking unlikely that will happen in GB. For that reason, I think it is time to put him on notice that there are others behind him who can do what he is doing. If he wants to hold the job he has to start doing the things that the others can not. If he can't do those things, a cheaper alternative to Finley is in the teams best interest.

[Patler]

Not if the ball doesn't come to you - regardless of whether it's your fault or game situation.

The offensive PI has become a point of emphasis - it was called tight all over the NFL this past weekend (Might have had something to do with some blown calls against GB....) so it's hard for me to get too upset with Finley over that one - but I realize the old T-buck hater crowd has assembled and will pile on for anything Finley does at this point.

If you don't get yourself open, the ball won't come to you. If you get in weak hand battles with defenders, the ball won't come to you, and if it does, you might get a PI call against you.

I started a thread with the idea of discussing what can be done with Finley to get him going. How does that equate to hate? Obviously, what they are doing now is not working, because not only is he not returning to his form of 2009-2010, I think he is actually getting worse.

I also don't put a lot of emphasis on the PI call alone, but as I said, if you couple that with a bad drop this game, and his failure to make an impact play in this game, his game was not very good.

As for his "almost" TD, do I think he should have caught it? Absolutely not. BUT, it would not have been the first time that I had seen a receiver aware of a DB cutting in front of him lunge back to the ball and snatch it away from the DB, especially a receiver with a big size advantage. That would have been one of those "wow" plays that would set Finley apart. But, as I said, absolutely no criticism to him on that play, because to get something out of it would have been truly exceptional.

[ThunderDan]

I think it's the revival of the old T-buck and Ahmad Carroll haters. Whether deserved (Carroll) or not (T-Buck) it helps to have that whipping boy (racist!) or scape goat(animalist!) to beat on.

I disagree. Finley has flat out sucked this year just like AJ Hawk did last year.

We are paying Finley big money to play like shit. That is money we could have extended Matthews, Raji or reworked ARod. $7.5M to stink up the joint. I think they are going to take a serious look at Finley if he continues to underperform.

[mraynrand]

I disagree. Finley has flat out sucked this year just like AJ Hawk did last year.

We are paying Finley big money to play like shit. That is money we could have extended Matthews, Raji or reworked ARod. $7.5M to stink up the joint. I think they are going to take a serious look at Finley if he continues to underperform.

You disagree? With what? I said deserved or not. I think people like to have a guy they can dog pile on, like Jones, Hawk, Carroll, Buckley, etc. etc. Deserved or not, Finley seems to be that guy this year.

[Patler]

I disagree. Finley has flat out sucked this year just like AJ Hawk did last year.

We are paying Finley big money to play like shit. That is money we could have extended Matthews, Raji or reworked ARod. $7.5M to stink up the joint. I think they are going to take a serious look at Finley if he continues to underperform.

I agree. It's not real bad this year, as I think his cost is something like $5 million and change. 2013 will cost around $8 million, which is a lot of both cash and cap space that can be spent on someone who is performing well. They have a lot of those players coming up for contracts soon.

[ThunderDan]

You disagree? With what? I said deserved or not. I think people like to have a guy they can dog pile on, like Jones, Hawk, Carroll, Buckley, etc. etc. Deserved or not, Finley seems to be that guy this year.

That he is being singled out like TBucky or Grabby Smurf. If any Packer can complain it's Bush about unfair critizism.

We are all Packer homers. Sometime it isn't fun looking at how your football "heros" are actually performing. Hell, I wanted the Pack to sign Finley to a long-term contract so I could finally buy his jersey.