O-LINE ANALYSIS, PACKERS VS. FALCONS (MOLL EDITION!)

[woodbuck27]

Whoops, jumped the thread and Harvey had beaten me to this nugget of 20/20 hindsight. Apologies.

In any event, I am only concerned if Colledge can't contribute. Then I am concerned only as far as it impacts getting 2 starting contributors on average each year.

If Colledge becomes misplaced at Guard but Moll can be sufficient, then TT is ahead of the curve because he has upgraded both talent and depth.

Remember his anchor and strength were both things people were concerned about before the draft. Wahle could also struggle with his anchor and bull rushers.

A year in the weight program could easily be all that he needs.

YES pbmax.

GO PACKERS ! FAITH FANS !!

[Fritz]

If Colledge ends up a good or very good starter, doesn't matter to me if it's left guard, left tackle, or tight end. If the dude is not cut out for guard, why force it? If he can play left tackle, well, that'll fill a position of need, since right now our backup is looking a little shaky.

[Terry]

GregJennings“Most posts, like many of us are non football related, but if we just take the football ones, I'll bet we get almost all jabs at those two guys..... “

Bretsky “I think I have about 2G in posts; by your unsubstantiated count I'd have 500 posts about Robert Ferguson. Either you are a wonderful exaggerator or a good comedian.”

Either English isn’t your first language and you have a hard time understanding what I wrote or you just forgot to read my post before you responded.

Well, you also said, "WE could probably sort through all of his football posts and get a reoccuring theme. 25% are Fergi hating. 25% are TT hating and 50% are related to something else."

Now, maybe I don't speak English very well either. But assuming that we're not into Sophism here and that this forum isn't a study group for legal analysis of contracts, where is the major failure in suggesting that 25% of Bretsky's themes are Fergi hating translates roughly, in practical terms, to 500 posts about Ferguson? Is your difficulty here concerning your use of the word 'themes' instead of 'posts'?

You came down really hard on him. I'd sure like to know exactly what you meant in the first place that so justifies questioning his English comprehension skills.

@ Woodbuck, I'm glad to see you doing a wee bit of cheering for Thompson. I don't mind the roller coaster ride. I do wonder, though, why you so vehemently insist that you do not compare war to football. Why not? Ok, granted, in war the stakes are ever so much higher and the fans ten times as irrational, but as a general metaphor and analogy (depending), it seems to me that the reference to war is a legitimate one.

[KYPack]

If we wind up with solid starting guards, I could care what round they get drafted in.

College looks like a good hand, it might take time for him to get mature. I made a prediction that Moll would spend the year on the practice patrol, getting experience, guess i jumped the gun on that deal.

This draft reminded me of the one where we draft 3 corners to stop Moss. Who cares which one of 'em does the job, just so we fill the hole?

[4and12to12and4]

Well, we are all gonna have to just hope that TT and M3 know what they're doing and have the skills to know what's best for the line. The stats that are here as far as + and -'s for each individual lineman are nice to see, but we need to be reminded that we don't know the exact responsibility for each lineman without knowing the playbook, and understanding the zone blocking scheme. We can see whether or not Moll or Colledge gets knocked backward or pushed forward, but there are alot of nuances to this scheme that these guys are doing that we don't know. So, a grading system is nice, as long as we know it's got it's weaknesses. It does show us who seems to be getting pushed around or not. But, some plays call for a lineman to allow his blocker to go through, while he slides over and helps in a different area, etc.. I will say that Colledge seemed to get pushed backwards more than Moll, but in Colledge's defense, he was going against sheer brut power and size, Moll didn't have to deal with that test. As someone stated earlier in this thread, the whole line was better. Many of us here predicted this would happen last week, because we knew their blocking scheme wasn't even close to the complicated, overpowering, overloading scheme that Schottenheimer brought. Believe me, our line WILL look more like the one against the Chargers when we play the Bear's. It will probably be a little better because of the 3 more games of experience and because with Chicago's scheme, you pretty much know who you will be blocking from play to play, unlike SD's "mystery" defense.

I want to remind those who are happy that the staff is saying that Moll is more agressive and has a "take no prisoners" attitude, that when we drafted Colledge, that's what was said about him also. He was regarded as a mentally tough bruiser type tackle with a chip on his shoulder. So, I'm just taking this for what it's worth. I didn't think Moll was that great an improvement when watching him Sunday. But, I do like the idea of having a young guy with potential backing up at the tackle postition. I'll just trust the coaching staff on this one. Jags is suppose to be pretty good. I guess time will tell.

[vince]

I do wonder, though, why you so vehemently insist that you do not compare war to football. Why not? Ok, granted, in war the stakes are ever so much higher and the fans ten times as irrational, but as a general metaphor and analogy (depending), it seems to me that the reference to war is a legitimate one.

I like your style, Terry.

A few war metaphors by the immortal one...

"The harder you work, the harder it is to surrender."

"Football desire is built on pride and effort forged by raw combat."

"I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious."

[Partial]

If we wind up with solid starting guards, I could care what round they get drafted in.

College looks like a good hand, it might take time for him to get mature. I made a prediction that Moll would spend the year on the practice patrol, getting experience, guess i jumped the gun on that deal.

This draft reminded me of the one where we draft 3 corners to stop Moss. Who cares which one of 'em does the job, just so we fill the hole?

Also, it was the last selected that turned out to be the NFL player. Perhaps similiar fate with Moll and Spitz? Hopefully, all three turn out. I foresee Colledge regaining the spot, to tell you the truth.

If not this year, then definitely next. If the knock on him is strength, then he'll fix that. I, for one, find it a little weird that the TE convert to tackle is stronger and more physical then the 4 year starter at LT. Weird, I know. The benefit of this however, is he has some experience at the tackle spots and guard, which makes him a versatile back-up.

[TOP HAT]

thanks

I wish to express my thanks for the opening neat analysis
about the OL and its progress.

Also, I am looking for a packer rats fan to do any hopeful
analysis for a dl with a pass rush attitude. Yesterday, one
fan indicated a poor pass rush, so far.

Thus, with the national espn game next week, we will all
see what is going on...as you know great LBs and CBs will
not stop an offense without a good pass rush.


top hat

[Bretsky]

As much as I disliked how TT handled free agency, I must also give him his kudos for the 2006 draft up to this point.

Truth be told, as another poster pointed out, 2006 might be the best Packer draft any of us can remember and if it is TT gets his credit for that.

Early returns are

Hawk looks the Part as a Very Solid Pro
Colledge is a TBD
Jennings looks like a steal and a NFL ready WR
Spitz appears to be a steal as well
Hodge will be a player
Rodgers looks like a questionable pick
Blackmond is TBD
Moll looks like a steal
Culver looks like a solid pick and keeper
Tolleson, Martin, and Jolly are TBD's.

So we got Hawk, Jennings, Spitz, Hodge, who certainly seem to be great picks and Moll and Culver seem to be a solid ones as well. And if College or Blackmond develops, this is a truly outstanding draft for our future. Plus a couple wildcards so that list may go higher. TT's early 2006 draft grade would be in the A range now.

The 2006 draft so far would be labled an incredible success.

[woodbuck27]

As much as I disliked how TT handled free agency, I must also give him his kudos for the 2006 draft up to this point.

Truth be told, as another poster pointed out, 2006 might be the best Packer draft any of us can remember and if it is TT gets his credit for that.

Early returns are

Hawk looks the Part as a Very Solid Pro
Colledge is a TBD
Jennings looks like a steal and a NFL ready WR
Spitz appears to be a steal as well
Hodge will be a player
Rodgers looks like a questionable pick
Blackmond is TBD
Moll looks like a steal
Culver looks like a solid pick and keeper
Tolleson, Martin, and Jolly are TBD's.

So we got Hawk, Jennings, Spitz, Hodge, who certainly seem to be great picks and Moll and Culver seem to be a solid ones as well. And if College or Blackmond develops, this is a truly outstanding draft for our future. Plus a couple wildcards so that list may go higher. TT's early 2006 draft grade would be in the A range now.

The 2006 draft so far would be labled an incredible success.

Just this B.

CONGRATULATIONS on 2000 posts Packer Fan !!

[woodbuck27]

As much as I disliked how TT handled free agency, I must also give him his kudos for the 2006 draft up to this point.

Truth be told, as another poster pointed out, 2006 might be the best Packer draft any of us can remember and if it is TT gets his credit for that.

Early returns are

Hawk looks the Part as a Very Solid Pro
Colledge is a TBD
Jennings looks like a steal and a NFL ready WR
Spitz appears to be a steal as well
Hodge will be a player
Rodgers looks like a questionable pick
Blackmond is TBD
Moll looks like a steal
Culver looks like a solid pick and keeper
Tolleson, Martin, and Jolly are TBD's.

So we got Hawk, Jennings, Spitz, Hodge, who certainly seem to be great picks and Moll and Culver seem to be a solid ones as well. And if College or Blackmond develops, this is a truly outstanding draft for our future. Plus a couple wildcards so that list may go higher. TT's early 2006 draft grade would be in the A range now.

The 2006 draft so far would be labled an incredible success.

I was away from here for about 8 weeks and missed that Draft, but when I really assessed it back in early June I was very pleased with what TT did that appeared promising.

NOW - Ted Thompson AND his Scouts and people who worked up OUR DRAFT Board, deserve alot of credit - as we see it all developing now.

I just pray that adversity doesn't strip it away. I can't wait for Blackmon to come back. He'll be good. That fella, is one hell of an athlete.

THE PACKER FUTURE LOOKS GOOD !!

[Bretsky]

As much as I disliked how TT handled free agency, I must also give him his kudos for the 2006 draft up to this point.

Truth be told, as another poster pointed out, 2006 might be the best Packer draft any of us can remember and if it is TT gets his credit for that.

Early returns are

Hawk looks the Part as a Very Solid Pro
Colledge is a TBD
Jennings looks like a steal and a NFL ready WR
Spitz appears to be a steal as well
Hodge will be a player
Rodgers looks like a questionable pick
Blackmond is TBD
Moll looks like a steal
Culver looks like a solid pick and keeper
Tolleson, Martin, and Jolly are TBD's.

So we got Hawk, Jennings, Spitz, Hodge, who certainly seem to be great picks and Moll and Culver seem to be a solid ones as well. And if College or Blackmond develops, this is a truly outstanding draft for our future. Plus a couple wildcards so that list may go higher. TT's early 2006 draft grade would be in the A range now.

The 2006 draft so far would be labled an incredible success.

Just this B.

CONGRATULATIONS on 2000 posts Packer Fan !!

Thanks Woody; on a sidenote hope things are going well for you on the personal side in Canada.

Cheers,
B

[KYPack]

Those of you wanting to rip Ted a new one for the College pick need to remember to kiss Ted's butt in the Jennings threads. Fair is fair.

Point well taken Scott; I didn't fall in love with either pick as I really liked Chad Jackson. And it looks like I was really wrong.

Jackson was easily the star of the combine. The fastest, quickest, best hands WR at the place. But hat doesn't mean he was the best wr prospect. I was in love with this kid. He is a workout warrior, but not the player that Jennings is.

I was pissed we didn't take him, & it looks like I was wrong.

In TT we trust, I guess.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Jackson was easily the star of the combine. The fastest, quickest, best hands WR at the place. But hat doesn't mean he was the best wr prospect. I was in love with this kid. He is a workout warrior, but not the player that Jennings is.

Fastest? Yes. Quickest? No. Jennings actually had a faster 3-cone and shuttle times. Best hands? Doubtful.

Jackson had the speed/size ratio that's ideal. That's why he went in the 2nd round. If he were also the quickest and showed the best hands, you can bet he would have been a top 15 pick.

[swede]

I wouldn't agree with that at all, Bretsky. Having a potential great LT is like drafting a potential great QB. They are hard to find. Clifton is over 30 now and is hobbling. If Colledge is a good starting LT in year 3 it would still be a great draft pick. Hell, Ron Wolf drafted Clifton when it looked like there was no need for him. Who's to say Clifton can hold up all year. It wouldn't be out of the realm for Colledge to "save our bacon" at some point this year at LT.

Agreed Harv. I was startled at Bretsky's pronouncement as well. To me, it would all be good if Moll were to keep the starting job at guard and Colledge were to become a quality backup at tackle.

It scared the dickens out of me to see Clifton hobbling around after the Atlanta game with his knees on ice. What would we do without him or Tausch? Frightening to contemplate! ANY quality backups on the o line would pull this team another blessed inch away from the brink of another crappy season.

I don't know if Havel is right or not, but the article at least was plausible. Perhaps Colledge's best natural position is his former position at left tackle. Having him back up Clifton would not be disturbing or disaappointing to me if Moll is doing well at left guard.