Giants Review: Start With Rodgers

[Patler]

Sacks resulting from Rodgers holding the ball too long don't bother me all that much, except for the injury risk that goes with them. The times he holds the ball too long and is sacked don't usually lose a lot of yardage. Only a couple times has he continued fading deeper and deeper. Usually he drifts closer to the LOS and the loss is small. When he extends a play and scrambles outside the pocket, he generally gets back within a couple yards of the LOS (basically, about like a typical Packer running play )

[Fritz]

Good point, Patler. I do stick with my other criticism, however. Where are those short throws over the middle? What happened to using the running backs running short routes as your running game? This would seem to play to Green's strengths, at least.

[Pugger]

Sacks resulting from Rodgers holding the ball too long don't bother me all that much, except for the injury risk that goes with them. The times he holds the ball too long and is sacked don't usually lose a lot of yardage. Only a couple times has he continued fading deeper and deeper. Usually he drifts closer to the LOS and the loss is small. When he extends a play and scrambles outside the pocket, he generally gets back within a couple yards of the LOS (basically, about like a typical Packer running play )

I don't have a problem with it either. Don't throw the ball up for grabs. Take your lumps rather than give your opposition an extra chance. I too worry about the injury risks that go with sacks.

[George Cumby]

I don't have a problem with it either. Don't throw the ball up for grabs. Take your lumps rather than give your opposition an extra chance. I too worry about the injury risks that go with sacks.

Right. Sack or a brain-dead toss into triple coverage? I'll take the sack, please.

[ThunderDan]

Remeber when GB lost to Detroit in 2010 3-7 and Rodgers was knocked out with a concussion and everyone was sure we were toast and wouldn't make the playoffs?

[LEWCWA]

Sacks resulting from Rodgers holding the ball too long don't bother me all that much, except for the injury risk that goes with them. The times he holds the ball too long and is sacked don't usually lose a lot of yardage. Only a couple times has he continued fading deeper and deeper. Usually he drifts closer to the LOS and the loss is small. When he extends a play and scrambles outside the pocket, he generally gets back within a couple yards of the LOS (basically, about like a typical Packer running play )

this is the thing you would usually, what they say patlerize, this is and opinion without anything to back it up. I would say that when he gets sacked it is a ngative play and usually loses much more than a couple yards!

the sacks suck big time. Arod had a bad game, along with the rest of the team in general! The only thing that really bothered me was the throw away at the end of the half. You have to chuck the ball up. That was a total give up and speaks volumes about the way the last game was played by the whole team!

[sharpe1027]

IMO, whether to take the sack is not a black and white issue. While taking a sack is better than throwing an interception, we certainly cannot say that every single sack was an avoided interception. There is risk to every single pass so if the only goal is to avoid interceptions, he would never throw the ball at all. I think he could take a little more risk because overall, taking 8 sacks in a game (many leading to punts) is probably worse than a pick or two. When you factor in the possibility of a fumble or him getting hurt, it shifts even further in the favor of being at least a little more aggressive with his throws.

Fritz commented on him not making short throws over the middle, and from my unofficial memory of the Giants game, they showed several instances of the coverage after a sack and sometimes there was nobody was running a short route over the middle at all. That's on MM.

[LegandofthePack15]

Right. Sack or a brain-dead toss into triple coverage? I'll take the sack, please.

Sack or an incomplete pass? I'll take the incomplete pass, please.

Rodgers needs to stop holding the ball longer than it takes Bob Dole to play a round of golf. When no one's open and pressure is a-coming, throw the fucking ball away. Ryan, Brees and Brady do that all the time. Unlike Rodgers, those guys don't give a fuck about their qb ratings.

[Pugger]

Remeber when GB lost to Detroit in 2010 3-7 and Rodgers was knocked out with a concussion and everyone was sure we were toast and wouldn't make the playoffs?

But he wasn't lost for the season and we had a decent backup behind him instead of Graham Harrell.

[mraynrand]

Caution: unintentional irony alert!

Ryan, Brees and Brady do that all the time. Unlike Rodgers, those guys don't give a fuck about their qb ratings.

Oh, the Humanity! Brees threw it away five times the other night. he he.

[Patler]

Good point, Patler. I do stick with my other criticism, however. Where are those short throws over the middle? What happened to using the running backs running short routes as your running game? This would seem to play to Green's strengths, at least.

I agree. I've complained about that ever since MM got here. He doesn't have the passes to replace the running game.

[Patler]

this is the thing you would usually, what they say patlerize, this is and opinion without anything to back it up. I would say that when he gets sacked it is a ngative play and usually loses much more than a couple yards!

the sacks suck big time. Arod had a bad game, along with the rest of the team in general! The only thing that really bothered me was the throw away at the end of the half. You have to chuck the ball up. That was a total give up and speaks volumes about the way the last game was played by the whole team!

Didn't I present it as only my opinion? All I said was they don't bother me, and I gave my reason which includes impressions. Just an impression on my part while watching games generally. I said it was my feeling and explained my observation of how plays tend to unfold. Go ahead and disagree if you want. I'm not about to argue it.

I didn't argue that others are wrong, if I wanted to convince others to change their opinions I would have to present facts or other supporting information. If you want to convince me that my opinion is wrong, you will have to present facts or information to convince me to change my mind.

I have never objected to anyone having an opinion. I primarily object to people presenting inaccurate information that they insist is incontrovertible. Did I do that in presenting my opinion about Rodgers sacks? Did I argue that any other poster was wrong?

Games are filled with a lot of negative plays. I can accept that.

I agree about the last game, and have posted in other threads that there was plenty of blame to go around. It happens. No one is perfect.

Interestingly, Clements agreed with Rodgers throw away before the half, for the reason that to stop and launch the long pass he likely would have been drilled by a defensive player.

[Patler]

IMO, whether to take the sack is not a black and white issue. While taking a sack is better than throwing an interception, we certainly cannot say that every single sack was an avoided interception. There is risk to every single pass so if the only goal is to avoid interceptions, he would never throw the ball at all. I think he could take a little more risk because overall, taking 8 sacks in a game (many leading to punts) is probably worse than a pick or two. When you factor in the possibility of a fumble or him getting hurt, it shifts even further in the favor of being at least a little more aggressive with his throws.

Fritz commented on him not making short throws over the middle, and from my unofficial memory of the Giants game, they showed several instances of the coverage after a sack and sometimes there was nobody was running a short route over the middle at all. That's on MM.

Ya, I suggested a couple years ago that we will always argue about sacks with Rodgers like we did with interceptions for Favre. Each accepts them in the hopes of making a better play. We can never know for sure how many great plays resulted from Favre taking an inordinate risk on a throw, or how many plays Rodgers has made by holding the ball too long and not throwing it away. In the long run, sacks don't bother me as much as the turnover from an interception. Punts are not necessarily bad things either, so the negative yardage from a sack doesn't bother me a lot.

Until the last few weeks, Rodgers has been remarkably secure with the ball on sacks. Apparently it is something he works on a lot, per an article last year. The last few games the ball has been coming out on sacks, a few recovered by the Packers. I wonder why?

[Patler]

Sack or an incomplete pass? I'll take the incomplete pass, please.

Rodgers needs to stop holding the ball longer than it takes Bob Dole to play a round of golf. When no one's open and pressure is a-coming, throw the fucking ball away. Ryan, Brees and Brady do that all the time. Unlike Rodgers, those guys don't give a fuck about their qb ratings.

As Sharpe pointed out, it is never that clear. How many times has he held the ball too long, and then made a last instance throw for a completion?

[pbmax]

Sack or an incomplete pass? I'll take the incomplete pass, please.

Rodgers needs to stop holding the ball longer than it takes Bob Dole to play a round of golf. When no one's open and pressure is a-coming, throw the fucking ball away. Ryan, Brees and Brady do that all the time. Unlike Rodgers, those guys don't give a fuck about their qb ratings.

Easier said than done while standing in the pocket because you must throw near a receiver. If he rolls, the odds of his throwing it away increase.

I agree with GC that I prefer a sack of less than seen yards to a pick, but its not a one to one ratio. Versus the Giants, it was time to make some uncomfortable throws into close coverage and take the risk. Sack avoidance needed to take precedence over possession since there were no points happening with the safe throws.

Packer fans can help by cheering every short throw (even incompletions) by Rodgers/McCarthy like they used to cheer young Favre finally throwing it away.