The Level-Headed Thread About the Defense.

[woodbuck27]

I think we are saying the same things in a different way...Yeah much of what I say falls on Capers. I think this team was suprised by how fast and strong CK is. I guess really this def got toasted on 3rd down. Plenty of times they had them 3rd and semi long and couldn't get off the field! And yes I agree that is mostly on Capers, but quite a few times the play was there to be made and it just wasn't!

Yes. What an advantage when it's third and long and you can better elect to run the ball.

Over and over and over again our 'D' was simply burned instead of forcing the punt. It was a bad nightmare.

The Defensive Line:

Ryan Pickett looked 'just beat up'. He's getting up there in age.

BJ Raji looked well...'just' confused. Will he maintain a focus? His role isn't glamourous. The puzzeling thing was that he was credited with ZERO tackles.

C.J. Wilson had 2.5 tackles. Mike Daniels had 2 tackles. He's a Rookie and needs time.

The Linebackers:

Brad Jones and AJ Hawk did make 16.5 tackles between them. These LBers get a lot of criticism.

Clay Matthews had a serviceable game and a sack but somehow he seemed confused in terms of what he had to do. Did I see that right? Sometimes he appeared a tad lost in space last night.

Moses did NOT part any sea's.

Our secondary:

Morgan Burnett and MD Jennings made a combined 6.5 tackles. Tyrone Williams played it very close and tough and had 8 tackles. Sam Shields was as usual steady, and chipped in with 4 tackles and 'a pick six'.

Charles Woodson tried hard and had 5.5 tackles. His age and contract are restrictive. We need some of his money to keep Greg Jennings. Still our NO.1 WR.

Casey Hayward? The 'only ' time I saw him was when he was used on a blitz that failed miserably. Wasn't he our most serviceable CB this season? Was he used properly last night? I felt he was inconspicuous. He was credited with zero tackles. He was credited with ZERO !

Defensive Schemes.

The best laid plans of mice and men.

It was just another game that sadly we saw our beloved Packers come up empty on. Change will take place and be accepted naturally as the way it must be.

I like our CB's even though they give up some in size to the huge WR's they must defend against.

Clay Matthews needs more help in terms of a future stars (2) at LBer. We need another BIG BODY in the middle of our DL. We need a very solid player at Safety.

A little added on the offense:

We need a veteren FA OLman (2) if such becomes available. The window of opportunity for Aaron Rodgers is certainly now 'on the clock'. Ted Thompson should lock him up ASAP !

Our WR's are just fine.

The RB position will just be what it is. We witnessed some signs of life and even given that for some reason MM snuffs it. I'm guessing it's just the nature of the beast.

GO PACK GO !

[Smeefers]

I'm not entirely convinced the whole front 7 needs to be completely re-tooled. First and foremost because I think that its a completely unrealistic thing to expect.

I think we had some serious injury problems that finally came back and bit us in the ass. I think how half way decent we played through out the year is enough to keep Dom in at DC. The front 7 is a laundry list on the injury report. It might just be easier to say who wasn't injured this year at all. AJ Hawk. Everyone else in the front seven was injured (or suspended) at least once through the year. It seems like for the last 3 years we've been playing with a slew of 2nd and 3rd stringers. We had a 3rd stringer in at ILB all year. We had 2nd and 3rd stringers in at CB and Safety. Once again we never know who the DE opposite Pickett is going to be. I think we'd be a completely different team if we could just stay healthy for a year. I don't know what kind of samurai voodoo bullshit we have to perform to keep our guys healthy, but that's what we should be researching.

Good luck trying to get guys to keep contain when your best option at LB is Jones and Walden. Capers can't be blamed for bad run stopping. The players earned all of that.

Finally, i still can't believe there's calls for Hawk to be tossed. You want to replace Hawk when he had 120 tackles on the year and was the only guy who didn't get hurt. If you can find someone better, who'd just as reliable, who you can pay less, then by all means go get him. Good fucking luck. The only way you replace him is rolling the dice on a draft pick. You Hawk haters are living in some fairy tale land where players should be perfect and replacing one of your top tacklers (year in and year out) is as easy as pie. Quit dreaming.

[digitaldean]

Here's just one of the instances that it was more on the player's. Heyward blitzed and had CK dead to rights. He missed the tackle and CK runs for big yardage. Dom called right play, guys didn't execute.

Defense executed in first half when it was 14-7, got SF to punt. Then Ross can just hang on to the freaking ball and give SF the ball at our 5. Packers D had momentum and were starting to feel a groove. Even though we were able to retake lead at 21-14, all the MO we had defensively was gone.

Hawk was flat out pitiful. Williams stunk last night. He isn't Estus Hood-horrible, but man alive, his holding, trash-talking ass should have been kicked by someone on the coaching staff. Woodson had some very good passes defensed, but he's not a great deep cover safety.

Raji got owned and given they were playing with 4-1/2 linemen, SF should have had some sacks against them. Staley gutted out his obvious pain and they neutralized Matthews. Until we get a consistent pass rush threat from that D-Line and someone other than Matthews at LB to REALLY standout consistently, we are hosed defensively.

Finally, Coach "pad-level" McCarthy better have his defense come back in the offseason for a tackling camp. He can have a QB camp for the QB's, then have a tackling camp for the defense. We are Darren Sharper-esque in our tackling ability. Woodson and Matthews are the surest tacklers on that D. Otherwise, we suck canal water or are below average at best.

[woodbuck27]

I'm not entirely convinced the whole front 7 needs to be completely re-tooled. First and foremost because I think that its a completely unrealistic thing to expect.

I think we had some serious injury problems that finally came back and bit us in the ass. I think how half way decent we played through out the year is enough to keep Dom in at DC. The front 7 is a laundry list on the injury report. It might just be easier to say who wasn't injured this year at all. AJ Hawk. Everyone else in the front seven was injured (or suspended) at least once through the year. It seems like for the last 3 years we've been playing with a slew of 2nd and 3rd stringers. We had a 3rd stringer in at ILB all year. We had 2nd and 3rd stringers in at CB and Safety. Once again we never know who the DE opposite Pickett is going to be. I think we'd be a completely different team if we could just stay healthy for a year. I don't know what kind of samurai voodoo bullshit we have to perform to keep our guys healthy, but that's what we should be researching.

Good luck trying to get guys to keep contain when your best option at LB is Jones and Walden. Capers can't be blamed for bad run stopping. The players earned all of that.

Finally, i still can't believe there's calls for Hawk to be tossed. You want to replace Hawk when he had 120 tackles on the year and was the only guy who didn't get hurt. If you can find someone better, who'd just as reliable, who you can pay less, then by all means go get him. Good fucking luck. The only way you replace him is rolling the dice on a draft pick. You Hawk haters are living in some fairy tale land where players should be perfect and replacing one of your top tacklers (year in and year out) is as easy as pie. Quit dreaming.

Do you own an AJ Hawk jersey?

[gbgary]

ok...you simply can't get rid of all these players you guys want to get rid of. there aren't enough draft picks, tt doesn't play in the fa market (much), and we need o-line and wr help before we start drafting defensive guys. we're going to have to develop the guys we got last year and hope they don't get injured. the d was much better than last year even with the injuries we had. last nights problem, to me, was scheme. it should have been all about stopping the run and containing kaep. it wasn't and they didn't. capers should have watched some college tape on how to deal with that shit. they've been doing there a lot longer than it's been done in the nfl. the o had it's issues too but that's for another thread.

[red]

http://watercoolersportsnetwork.com/2012/05/11/the-long-term-effect-of-dom-capers-on-a-defense/

[red]

i think we need to dip our toes back into the free agency market and try and find some decent vet role players. we've wasted a lot of draft picks on guys that just aren't getting it done.

i'm not talking about top tier 50 million guaranteed guys. and talking about 2 or 3 guys, who might be on the wrong side of 30 that can step in and just be average and do their fucking job.

i swear i'll scream if i see that dumb fuck walden on our roster next season

[PackerBlues]

(copied and pasted from a thread that i had started, my apologies, i should have just posted to this thread)



Ted Thompson became the General Manager in GB in 2005, the same year that he drafted Aaron Rodgers. (interesting fact: Upon Donald Driver's departure from GB, Aaron Rodgers will become the longest tenured player on the roster.)

Dom Capers joined the Packers in 2009. Hired by Ted Thompson as the Defensive coordinator, Capers replaced the 4-3 defense that the packers had used since 1992, with the 3-4 defense.


According to stats that I got from Pro-Football-Reference.com.....
( http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/2012/opp.htm )

In 2009 the Packers Defense was ranked 7'th overall, 5'th in passing defense, and 1'st in rushing defense.

In 2010, the Packers Defense was ranked 2'nd overall, 5'th in passing defense, and 18'th in rushing defense. (how the hell does that make sense?)

In 2011, the Packers Defense was ranked 19'th overall, 32'nd in passing defense, and 14'th in rushing defense.

In 2012, the Packers Defense was ranked 11'th overall, 11'th in passing defense, and 17'th in rushing defense.

Only 5 Defensive players currently on the roster, have been in GB longer than Dom Capers.

All of them joined the team in 2006: first round pick, LB, A.J. Hawk.... CB Jarrett Bush, picked up off waivers from Carolina.... DE/NT Ryan Pickett, an unrestricted free agent from St. Louis.... CB Tramon Williams, an undrafted free agent.... and, DB Charles Woodson, unrestricted free agent from Oakland.

All other Defensive players on the current roster came in 2009 with Capers, or later.

2009: NT B.J. Raji, 1'st round pick.... LB Clay Matthews, 1st round pick.... LB Brad Jones, 7'th round pick.... LB Robert Francois, undrafted free agent.

2010: DE Mike Neal, 2nd round pick.... S Morgan Burnett, 3rd round pick.... DE C.J. Wilson, 7th round pick.... CB Sam Shields, undrafted free agent.... LB Erik Walden, undrafted free agent.... LB Frank Zombo, undrafted free agent.

2011: CB Davon House, 4th round pick.... S M.D. Jennings, undrafted free agent.... LB Jamari Lattimore, undrafted free agent.

2012: DE Jerel Worthy, 2nd round pick.... CB Casey Hayward, 2nd round pick.... DT Mike Daniels, 4th round pick.... S Jerron McMillian, 4th round pick.... LB Terrell Manning, 5th round pick.... DT Jordan Miller, undrafted free agent, LB Dezman Moses, undrafted free agent.


Prior to looking at all of the above mentioned, I was ready to see Dom Capers pack his bags. Now, I am not so sure that it would be fair to Dom Capers at all.

The GB defense is composed of:

1st round picks, 3: Hawk, Raji, and Mathews
2nd round picks, 3: Neal, Worthy, Hayward
3rd round picks, 1: Burnett
4th round picks, 3: House, Danials, McMillian
5th round picks, 1: Manning
6th round picks, 0
7th round picks, 2: Jones, Wilson
Off Waivers, 1: Bush
Unrestricted free agents, 2: Pickett, Woodson
Undrafted free agents, 9: Williams, Francois, Shields, Walden, Zombo, Jennings, Lattimore, Miller, Moses

Looking at all of this, its kind of hard to put all the blame on Capers. How many years do you need to implement a Defense? How long does a player need to be in the system before he becomes.....a veteran in that system? Simply put, the Defensive players on the current roster probably need a little more time in the system.

[woodbuck27]

" In 2009 the Packers Defense was ranked 7'th overall, 5'th in passing defense, and 1'st in rushing defense." PackerBlues


************************************************** *******************************************


" In 2010, the Packers Defense was ranked 2'nd overall, 5'th in passing defense, and 18'th in rushing defense. (how the hell does that make sense?)

In 2011, the Packers Defense was ranked 19'th overall, 32'nd in passing defense, and 14'th in rushing defense.

In 2012, the Packers Defense was ranked 11'th overall, 11'th in passing defense, and 17'th in rushing defense. " PackerBlues

What beat us Vs 49ers? The pass or the run?

Of course it was again ...the run ! That's what we must overcome.

PACKERS !

[PackerBlues]

I agree with you Woodbuck27, and i found the article that Red linked to above very interesting as well. It shows that Defenses have improved when Capers takes over......but that they also go sour after a couple of years.

i pulled this quote from that article:

"Ultimately, the gradual failure of defenses under Dom Capers seems more to be due to a lack of quality personnel than anything else."

I tend to agree with this. I am not bashing Ted Thompson, but at the same time, he has to take some of the blame. With all of the new players added to the defense in the last couple of years, I really don't see how anyone could expect to see anything resembling consistancy. Its not as if any of the newer guys have ever played in a system like Capers before.......at least i wouldnt think so. The majority of them are undrafted free agents and late round picks.

[woodbuck27]

I agree with you Woodbuck27, and i found the article that Red linked to above very interesting as well. It shows that Defenses have improved when Capers takes over......but that they also go sour after a couple of years.

i pulled this quote from that article:

"Ultimately, the gradual failure of defenses under Dom Capers seems more to be due to a lack of quality personnel than anything else."

I tend to agree with this. I am not bashing Ted Thompson, but at the same time, he has to take some of the blame. With all of the new players added to the defense in the last couple of years, I really don't see how anyone could expect to see anything resembling consistancy. Its not as if any of the newer guys have ever played in a system like Capers before.......at least i wouldnt think so. The majority of them are undrafted free agents and late round picks.

Your points seem valid to me. The main ingredient I feel any great 'D' needs is talent and a strong ability to make plays. These players must know and believe in their roles.

Your not likely as a GM to discover this exceptional talent in your house with UFA's and late round picks. It's a crap shoot to acquire the same in the draft. TT came to us in 2005 with a conservative approach to using FAcy and was recognized for his drafting skills. The Packers enjoyed a Super Bowl win in Ted Thompson's sixth season as the Packer GM. Somehow we defied all odds in 2010-11 and managed that Super Bowl victory.

Immediately we began to read prophesies of a Green Bay Packer dynasty. Aaron Rodgers would this and that! Aaron Rodgers 'only' gives us one ingredient of some real chance. How long is the window of opportunity open with Aaron Rodgers?


You see it.... then.... you believe it !

Some Packer fans were shocked that we went one and out in the playoffs last year, following the regular season record we enjoyed. It's the BIG GAME ! Winning that game.

Last night was another BIG GAME!

Winning the Big Game, takes big time players working within a big time system with all onboard. Something was obviously missing again. We have to have faith that Ted Thompson will do all in his power to right the ship. Make the correct 'right' decisions.

Go PACK GO !

[Freak Out]

So is this the "who stays and who goes" thread? If so I have to ask is Walden still on the team this evening? He played some of the worst disciplined defense I have ever seen....and he has done it consistently.

[Joemailman]

So is this the "who stays and who goes" thread? If so I have to ask is Walden still on the team this evening? He played some of the worst disciplined defense I have ever seen....and he has done it consistently.

Right now they have 4 OLB's. Matthews, Moses, Zombo and Walden. Perry will be back, which would knock out Zombo or Walden. If they draft someone in the early or middle rounds, or find a UFA they like, Zombo or Walden could both be gone.

[rbaloha1]

I'm not entirely convinced the whole front 7 needs to be completely re-tooled. First and foremost because I think that its a completely unrealistic thing to expect.

I think we had some serious injury problems that finally came back and bit us in the ass. I think how half way decent we played through out the year is enough to keep Dom in at DC. The front 7 is a laundry list on the injury report. It might just be easier to say who wasn't injured this year at all. AJ Hawk. Everyone else in the front seven was injured (or suspended) at least once through the year. It seems like for the last 3 years we've been playing with a slew of 2nd and 3rd stringers. We had a 3rd stringer in at ILB all year. We had 2nd and 3rd stringers in at CB and Safety. Once again we never know who the DE opposite Pickett is going to be. I think we'd be a completely different team if we could just stay healthy for a year. I don't know what kind of samurai voodoo bullshit we have to perform to keep our guys healthy, but that's what we should be researching.

Good luck trying to get guys to keep contain when your best option at LB is Jones and Walden. Capers can't be blamed for bad run stopping. The players earned all of that.

Finally, i still can't believe there's calls for Hawk to be tossed. You want to replace Hawk when he had 120 tackles on the year and was the only guy who didn't get hurt. If you can find someone better, who'd just as reliable, who you can pay less, then by all means go get him. Good fucking luck. The only way you replace him is rolling the dice on a draft pick. You Hawk haters are living in some fairy tale land where players should be perfect and replacing one of your top tacklers (year in and year out) is as easy as pie. Quit dreaming.

Draft Manti Teo to replace Hawk.

Hawk had a better year but is not close to an elite player.

[rbaloha1]

1. Fire Capers. DC is only good when the opposing offense plays their tendencies. When the opposing team throws in wrinkles, DC is unable to adjust. How can the Packers be unprepared for the spread option?

2. Draft Manti Teo to be paired with Bishop. Get rid of Hawk and Walden. Put Jones back at olb.

3. Get back Johnny Jolly

4. Nick Perry brings some physicality to the defense.

5. Tramon is not the seme since signing the big contract. Replace TW with Davon House.

6. Find a DC with a history of defending the spread option successfully. Sorry guys this is not the wildcat.