The Level-Headed Thread About the Defense.

[Patler]

This is true after one year.

But after being physically dominated 2 years in a row requires major changes to the defense -- something is not right and to continue to rationalize does absolutely no good.

So we should emotionalize it instead?

They committed to significant change last year; but then

- one of the pieces they already had in Bishop was lost;
- the planned upgrade from Perry never happened when he played little;
- the moves to improve the DB's never gained traction because of House, Shields and Woodson's injuries.

The key is determining which of last year's fixes will take and what new ones have to be made (Will Bishop be back? Is Woodson done? Etc.). It has to be rationalized.

[rbaloha1]

So we should emotionalize it instead?

They committed to significant change last year; but then

- one of the pieces they already had in Bishop was lost;
- the planned upgrade from Perry never happened when he played little;
- the moves to improve the DB's never gained traction because of House, Shields and Woodson's injuries.

The key is determining which of last year's fixes will take and what new ones have to be made (Will Bishop be back? Is Woodson done? Etc.). It has to be rationalized.

Keep over analyzing with your cronies and see where it takes us.

MM and TT need to take bolder action on defense. The defense appeared improved from last season but guess it was a mirage.

[sharpe1027]

This only applies to fantasy football.

If you say so then it must be true.

[sharpe1027]

Keep over analyzing with your cronies and see where it takes us.

MM and TT need to take bolder action on defense. The defense appeared improved from last season but guess it was a mirage.

I guess it is fair to compare last season to a singe game. Any additional discussion is over analyzing. Nobody is saying the defense shouldn't be improved. You could acknowledge other people's views and carry on a discussion or you can dismiss them out of hand with one liners about "over analyzing" and "cronies." I think it is obvious which course of action is most productive.

[woodbuck27]

So is this the "who stays and who goes" thread? If so I have to ask is Walden still on the team this evening? He played some of the worst disciplined defense I have ever seen....and he has done it consistently.

I hope we can make this an important thread. To use this thread to try and respond to 'the facts'.

I just read this in my E-mail. I imagine many here have read it but I'll post it regardless:

http://www.packers.com/news-and-events/article-1/Packers-defense-struggles-to-explain-loss-to-49ers/bcab31af-f2c4-4c21-801b-33b4115377ba?campaign=email_post_divisional

" When the game became a shootout, the Packers offense couldn’t keep up. After scoring a TD late in the first half and showing the offense might be finding a rhythm, the Packers managed just one field goal on their first four possessions of the second half.

“There’s no coulda, shoulda, wouldas,” receiver Greg Jennings said. “We lost to a better team.”

The 49ers ended up with a monstrous time of possession advantage, 38:01 to 21:59.

“When the opposing team’s offense is on the field as much as they were tonight, it’s tough to build a rhythm for us,” guard T.J. Lang said. “We didn’t help our defense out much. When they were on the field for long drives, we stalled out way too many times.”

And so, another season has stalled out in mid-January. Two straight years as NFC North champs, but once again one game short of playing for the NFC Championship.

“It’s tough,” Raji said. “It never gets easy losing, especially when you’re a Green Bay Packer. A lot is expected of you. Ending the season like this for the second season in a row is definitely painful.” ... "

This is the reality that Packer GM Ted Thompson must deal with.

Someone posted that the window of opportunity or job security window is five seasons after winning a Super Bowl. If we go another three seasons 'without' another Super Bowl win. Ted Thompson's resume wil read:

'One Super Bowl win' in eleven (11) seasons as the GM of the Green Bay Packers; with arguably the best QB in the NFL, Aaron Rodgers.

NFL Access is coming up with a Specil Report (this afternoon) on upcoming changes in Green Bay. Will that report bode well for Tom Capers? Is Tom Capers the real problem?

I vote that we use this thread to follow 'the REAL problem to a REAL solotion'. Seeing the Green Bay Packers win their next Super Bowl within the next three seasons. Getting that done on or before 2015-16

Posters have raised a legitimate explanation for our failure this season. Too much adversity related to injury. Somehow we managed to work through that problem or adversity in 2010-11. Was that a fluke? I believe that team was somehow inspired by winning and momentum. That team had the 'special players' needed to see the job through. The team that went to San Francisco was flat out outclassed. The Green Bay Packer were beaten by a better team. That fact was blatantly obvious.

The San Francisco 49ers 'stung us'. Recall the looks on the Packers players faces throughout that game. See Aaron Rodgers, Charles Woodson, BJ Raji, Ryan Pickett and Greg Jennings. How will you ever forget the look on Donald Driver's face. Going out losing so badly. How did it get that bad!?

Back to the future:

We are aware of the decline in our 'D' with the absence of Desmond Bishop and the loss of Nick Collins. We saw a heavy 'D' oriented draft last off season. These players need time to reach full potential. It's a whole lot of this and that but we can use this thread to aim for possible solutions.

All that matters is winning the Super Bowl. A walk in the park is lovely but going for a treat along the way .....very special.

GO PACK GO !

[woodbuck27]

Draft Manti Teo to replace Hawk.

Hawk had a better year but is not close to an elite player.

If you need proof of that. He was a 'First Team Rookie' after being picked 5th overall in the 2006 draft. Check his resume for number of Pro Bowl appearances in his seven season career. He got there 'once', in 2010.

He's not blowing anybody up. How often do we use the word 'outstanding', to describe one of his games? AJ Hawk is serviceable. That's what keeps him in 'the Green and Gold'.

AJ Hawk's Career NFL statistics through this regular season (2012).

Tackles 714 (an average of 102 /season); Quarterback sacks 13.5 or < 2 /season; Interceptions 8. He doesn't shine in pass coverage.

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

http://watercoolersportsnetwork.com/...-on-a-defense/

I can then conclude after reading that.

That if Dom Capers is released today or in the near future that he was used as a scapegoat. Our defensive issues cannot all be blamed on Dom Capers.

We need more talented players on the defensive side of our roster. Give Dom Capers something to work with and our young defensive players time to develop.

Give Dom Capers 'a vote of confidence' and retain him. In any case:

If Ted Thompson releases Dom Capers does he have a better replacement?

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

i think we need to dip our toes back into the free agency market and try and find some decent vet role players. we've wasted a lot of draft picks on guys that just aren't getting it done.

i'm not talking about top tier 50 million guaranteed guys. and talking about 2 or 3 guys, who might be on the wrong side of 30 that can step in and just be average and do their fucking job.

i swear i'll scream if i see that dumb fuck walden on our roster next season

Red ?

Is Dom Capers the reason our defense stunk Vs the 49ers?

If I was Dom Capers and loved my job in Green Bay. Today, I'd be somewhat concerned.

The easy move and not necessarily 'best route towords a real solution'; would be 'of course' to can Dom Capers. It'll be very interesting to see what TT and MM decide. Alot of heat on these two men today. They should be more than 'just', somewhat concerned.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-will-make-changes-after-getting-demolished-in-playoffs-again-jk8c80g-186722401.html

As the week goes on, McCarthy is going to have to decide whether Capers has lost his touch and no longer has the ability to keep up with the NFL's increasingly diverse offensive attacks or is a victim of Thompson's draft-only philosophy and neglect in acquiring the bruising linebackers and safeties it takes to compete with the physical offenses of NFC contenders San Francisco and the New York Giants.

As players are wont to do, the Packers defend Capers and his staff to reporters, refusing publicly to turn on the same guys who helped them win Super Bowl rings. But it was also clear after the loss what players were speaking of when they said they were out-schemed and underprepared against 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick and the read-option plays he used en route to breaking the NFL record for quarterback rushing yards with 181.

"Coach Capers is a great coach," said linebacker Desmond Bishop, who spent the season on injured reserve. "You can't have a great defense and win the Super Bowl one year and then be kicked out the next year, or a year or two later. I don't think it should work like that at all.

"I think Dom Capers is a great coach. It's just something I think we have to look at internally as a team and not really worry about going outside of the team. It's something we have to look at within ourselves. I think we will address that and be fine."

Should he decide to part ways with Capers, McCarthy wouldn't necessarily have to scrap the Steelers 3-4 system the Packers are currently using. Defensive line coach Mike Trgovac and safeties coach Darren Perry would be options if McCarthy chose to promote from within and keep the same system.

There are plenty of 3-4 practitioners so it wouldn't necessarily mean McCarthy would have to start from scratch on defense if he hired from somewhere else. The Packers have invested a lot into 3-4-type players and McCarthy likes the attacking style of that scheme.

But before McCarthy decides a coaching change is necessary, Thompson needs to examine his philosophy for stocking the roster with talent. Thompson devoted his first six draft choices last spring to defensive players, but did not sign a veteran free agent and made Capers and his staff make do this season with a bunch of rookies.

It's hard to have a successful defense when the roster is continually turning over and isn't allowed to mature. Whether that has been the case with the Packers is up for debate.

But what isn't is that Thompson has leaned away from acquiring big, physical players like Bishop in favor of more agile players like A.J. Hawk, Morgan Burnett, Brad Jones, D.J. Smith, M.D. Jennings, Sam Shields, Frank Zombo, Casey Hayward and Mike Daniels. From Link above and in another thread, as well

[woodbuck27]

1. Fire Capers. DC is only good when the opposing offense plays their tendencies. When the opposing team throws in wrinkles, DC is unable to adjust. How can the Packers be unprepared for the spread option?

2. Draft Manti Teo to be paired with Bishop. Get rid of Hawk and Walden. Put Jones back at olb.

3. Get back Johnny Jolly

4. Nick Perry brings some physicality to the defense.

5. Tramon is not the seme since signing the big contract. Replace TW with Davon House.

6. Find a DC with a history of defending the spread option successfully. Sorry guys this is not the wildcat.

Who's your new DC not named Lovie Smith?

[Guiness]

Read through this thread, thanks to all the contribs, it's a good one.

My reaction after the game was mostly one of being stunned. I just don't get how we looked so badly outclassed by SF. Why we didn't have an answer for Kaepernick, and to a lesser extent, Crabtree. Moss played like the #3 WR he is now, Davis and Walker contributed very little.

There was a lot of talk in the gameday thread about having a spy on Kaepernick. Did anyone rewatch or see any information about whether or not that was happening? While the actual game, it certainly didn't appear so.

I see mention of our two missing LBs, Bishop and Worthy. While I agree their loss hurt us, I think the Pack should have been able to scheme to take away Kaepernick's ability to constantly run for big plays. It wasn't like their Oline was blowing us up or getting to the second level. He was mostly running naked by the time he got over the LOS.

Lastly - was that really a veer option offense as Red says? Wow...I guess it is. Will we be seeing more of it now? Tebow ran a triple option in Denver, but it was limited. Seems like there are three QBs who could theoretically run it, Kaepernick, Wilson and RGIII (if he comes back ok). Have to think there's a VERY limited life to that though, Kaepernick took at least one big hit, the one where he got a 15yd taunting penalty. He walked away from that one, but he won't always.

[Guiness]

Red ?

Is Dom Capers the reason our defense stunk Vs the 49ers?

I don't know if he's why we stunk, but as I said in my post above, I don't understand why we couldn't scheme to take away his ability to run. I'd take my chances with what the rest of their offense brought to the table.

[Patler]

Keep over analyzing with your cronies and see where it takes us.

MM and TT need to take bolder action on defense. The defense appeared improved from last season but guess it was a mirage.

So they should change the DC, all coaches and the 11 starters? Is anything else "over analyzing" and/or "rationalizing"?

[Zool]

So they should change the DC, all coaches and the 11 starters? Is anything else "over analyzing" and/or "rationalizing"?

Well I guess it was only a matter of time. Here comes the sky falling now. Cluck.

[3irty1]

I should have known it was impossible to have a level-headed thread about the defense.

[mraynrand]

Read through this thread, thanks to all the contribs, it's a good one.

My reaction after the game was mostly one of being stunned. I just don't get how we looked so badly outclassed by SF. Why we didn't have an answer for Kaepernick, and to a lesser extent, Crabtree. Moss played like the #3 WR he is now, Davis and Walker contributed very little.

There was a lot of talk in the gameday thread about having a spy on Kaepernick. Did anyone rewatch or see any information about whether or not that was happening? While the actual game, it certainly didn't appear so.

I see mention of our two missing LBs, Bishop and Worthy. While I agree their loss hurt us, I think the Pack should have been able to scheme to take away Kaepernick's ability to constantly run for big plays. It wasn't like their Oline was blowing us up or getting to the second level. He was mostly running naked by the time he got over the LOS.

Lastly - was that really a veer option offense as Red says? Wow...I guess it is. Will we be seeing more of it now? Tebow ran a triple option in Denver, but it was limited. Seems like there are three QBs who could theoretically run it, Kaepernick, Wilson and RGIII (if he comes back ok). Have to think there's a VERY limited life to that though, Kaepernick took at least one big hit, the one where he got a 15yd taunting penalty. He walked away from that one, but he won't always.

Good post. I thought their O-line was dominant. Packers wanted to get pressure to force Kap to throw garbage. Other than a few pressures, mostly early, he really had a lot of time back there. Matthews was completely, totally, embarrassingly dominated in the second half, by a tackle in severe pain. The coverage on Crabby wasn't so terrible; the throws by Kap were better. Who knows? Maybe he just got really super hot for that game, or that's the way it will look for a long time. No way to know, except that he's been very accurate with the deep ball in his limited starts. Packers need to get better at 3-5 positions on the defense; I'm guessing 2-3 of those guys are on the roster.

Nevertheless, Packers should have been able to adjust to Kap running, but given the lack of talent on the defense, I still think Niners dominate; Packers bleed, just a little more slowly.