Packers Still Too Soft

[RashanGary]

Speaking of being a nasty football team. There is a certain way to play football. There are certain lines that should not be crossed. I remember, don't know exactly who it was, but a defender tackled a guy with a bad ankle and put a nasty twist on it. After, he said he put some hot-sauce on his ankle. You're getting in the realm of moral conflict here. I would play the game that way. If I knew a guy had a bad rib, a bad knee or a bad ankle, I'd attack that weakness and make him either play scared to protect himself or get hurt.

These guys have a choice to step on the field less than 100% It would be absolutely stupid to let that player run around with that injury and beat you. If you watch UFC, once a guy gets some badly bruised ribs, you keep going back to that spot. Once he starts covering up, you blast him so hard in the head that he can't fucking stand. Same goes in football. If Adrian Peterson likes to run high, you go at his knees over and over and over until he has no choice but to run behind his pads. If he chooses not to run behind his pads, then he gets injured. If he chooses to run behind his pads, then he looses effectiveness.

The place I draw the line is when I guy cannot protect himself. I don't think you should purposely shatter a guys leg if it's caught in a pile or anything like that. But you should make damn sure he's looking out for his legs every snap of the game. If you let him play safe, you're letting him beat you.

Greg Williams pretty much had it figured out the year they won the SB. "affect the head, see if his knee is OK, let's find out if he wants to play." Make the other team put their energy into being safe. The more focus they put into protecting their bodies, the less focus they have on beating you.

Football is about winning and until winning is taken out of the equation, the team that wants to win more (talent being equal) will win. Nastiness is a mental edge.

We do have to get bigger and stronger. I also think we have to get meaner.

[wootah]

Mental image after that last post:

[SnakeLH2006]

Mental image after that last post:

No shit...if your gonna be soft..be firm at the same point:

[3irty1]

Not only do coaches lie to the press, they seem to get off on feeding shit to McGinn to make him look bad. I don't dislike McGinn, his job is a total bitch. He has to write for one of the very most knowledgeable fanbases in sports about the dealings of one of the most secretive GM's in the league. If I have to choose between reading puff piece human interest stories about Andrew Datko's collection of vintage sewing machines or wild speculation I'd take wild speculation. The whole build-your-own narrative routine is still obvious and shameful for a journalist, even one that only covers sports. If you think the Packers need to get tougher then by all means, provide that analysis. What you shouldn't do is paint it that the Packers management agrees with you without getting quotes that say so. McGinn is credible as an analyst, but sketchy at best as a journalist.

[rbaloha1]

Not only do coaches lie to the press, they seem to get off on feeding shit to McGinn to make him look bad. I don't dislike McGinn, his job is a total bitch. He has to write for one of the very most knowledgeable fanbases in sports about the dealings of one of the most secretive GM's in the league. If I have to choose between reading puff piece human interest stories about Andrew Datko's collection of vintage sewing machines or wild speculation I'd take wild speculation. The whole build-your-own narrative routine is still obvious and shameful for a journalist, even one that only covers sports. If you think the Packers need to get tougher then by all means, provide that analysis. What you shouldn't do is paint it that the Packers management agrees with you without getting quotes that say so. McGinn is credible as an analyst, but sketchy at best as a journalist.

The toughness mindset seems to be theme with this current draft.

[Pugger]

A lot of folks worry about lining up against SF in the first week. But was our weakness strength/toughness or speed on D? Drafting Jones and dumping Walden will a long way towards fixing that.

[rbaloha1]

A lot of folks worry about lining up against SF in the first week. But was our weakness strength/toughness or speed on D? Drafting Jones and dumping Walden will a long way towards fixing that.

Why should the packers not be worried.

IMO Perry is an upgrade over Walden; Bishop is an upgrade over Jones; DJ is an upgrade over Wilson; Iowa safety is an ugrade over center fielder; Boyd is an upgrade over any back-up rotational dt.

Is this enough?

[Fritz]

Speaking of being a nasty football team. There is a certain way to play football. There are certain lines that should not be crossed. I remember, don't know exactly who it was, but a defender tackled a guy with a bad ankle and put a nasty twist on it. After, he said he put some hot-sauce on his ankle. You're getting in the realm of moral conflict here. I would play the game that way. If I knew a guy had a bad rib, a bad knee or a bad ankle, I'd attack that weakness and make him either play scared to protect himself or get hurt.

These guys have a choice to step on the field less than 100% It would be absolutely stupid to let that player run around with that injury and beat you. If you watch UFC, once a guy gets some badly bruised ribs, you keep going back to that spot. Once he starts covering up, you blast him so hard in the head that he can't fucking stand. Same goes in football. If Adrian Peterson likes to run high, you go at his knees over and over and over until he has no choice but to run behind his pads. If he chooses not to run behind his pads, then he gets injured. If he chooses to run behind his pads, then he looses effectiveness.

The place I draw the line is when I guy cannot protect himself. I don't think you should purposely shatter a guys leg if it's caught in a pile or anything like that. But you should make damn sure he's looking out for his legs every snap of the game. If you let him play safe, you're letting him beat you.

Greg Williams pretty much had it figured out the year they won the SB. "affect the head, see if his knee is OK, let's find out if he wants to play." Make the other team put their energy into being safe. The more focus they put into protecting their bodies, the less focus they have on beating you.

Football is about winning and until winning is taken out of the equation, the team that wants to win more (talent being equal) will win. Nastiness is a mental edge.

We do have to get bigger and stronger. I also think we have to get meaner.

I've been meaning to respond to Tom Silverstein's article after the draft, which carried the smallnsoft theory into an analysis of the latest draft class. The argument is that when you look at the players the Packers drafted, it's evidence they are obviously trying to get bigger, and by implication, tougher. I'm not sure how the two are connected exactly, so I won't speak tot he toughness issue. However, I would like to present some comparisons between the size of the players drafted this year and those playing the same or similar positions that the Packers have picked up in the last year or two prior to the recent draft.

Here's the link to Silverstein's article:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/205047001.html

Okay:

Offensive linemen:

2012 Andrew Datko 6-6, 315
2013 D. Bahktaeri 6-4, 301
J. Tretter 6-3, 307

Defensive linemen:

2012 J. Worthy 6-2, 308
M. Daniels 6-0, 291
2013 D. Jones, 6-4, 280
J. Boyd 6-2, 307

Linebackers:

2012: Nick Perry 6-3, 270
T. Manning 6-2, 237
2013: N. Palmer 6-2, 248
S. Barrington, 6-1, 240

Running backs:

2011-2012: A. Green 6-0, 225
D. Harris, 5-7, 197
2013: E. Lacy 5-11, 229
J. Franklin 5-10, 200

Wide Receivers:

2011 - 12: R. Cobb 5-10, 191
J. Ross 5-11, 213
J. Boykin 6-2, 218
2013: C. Johnson 6-2, 215
K. Dorsey 6-1, 207

Corner/Safety

2012: C Heyward 5-11, 185
J. McMillian 5-11, 203
2013: M Hyde 5-11, 194


I'm not going to get into deep analysis; others are more adept. I am not, on the surface, seeing this year's draft class as especially "bigger."

[Freak Out]

Speaking of being a nasty football team. There is a certain way to play football. There are certain lines that should not be crossed. I remember, don't know exactly who it was, but a defender tackled a guy with a bad ankle and put a nasty twist on it. After, he said he put some hot-sauce on his ankle. You're getting in the realm of moral conflict here. I would play the game that way. If I knew a guy had a bad rib, a bad knee or a bad ankle, I'd attack that weakness and make him either play scared to protect himself or get hurt.

These guys have a choice to step on the field less than 100% It would be absolutely stupid to let that player run around with that injury and beat you. If you watch UFC, once a guy gets some badly bruised ribs, you keep going back to that spot. Once he starts covering up, you blast him so hard in the head that he can't fucking stand. Same goes in football. If Adrian Peterson likes to run high, you go at his knees over and over and over until he has no choice but to run behind his pads. If he chooses not to run behind his pads, then he gets injured. If he chooses to run behind his pads, then he looses effectiveness.

The place I draw the line is when I guy cannot protect himself. I don't think you should purposely shatter a guys leg if it's caught in a pile or anything like that. But you should make damn sure he's looking out for his legs every snap of the game. If you let him play safe, you're letting him beat you.

Greg Williams pretty much had it figured out the year they won the SB. "affect the head, see if his knee is OK, let's find out if he wants to play." Make the other team put their energy into being safe. The more focus they put into protecting their bodies, the less focus they have on beating you.

Football is about winning and until winning is taken out of the equation, the team that wants to win more (talent being equal) will win. Nastiness is a mental edge.

We do have to get bigger and stronger. I also think we have to get meaner.

This is the NFL not the UFC for fucks sake. Being nasty is one thing but purposely trying to break someones ankle is another. Make the tackle/sack...hammer people...but don't turn this into some cage match.

[run pMc]

This is the NFL not the UFC for fucks sake. Being nasty is one thing but purposely trying to break someones ankle is another. Make the tackle/sack...hammer people...but don't turn this into some cage match.

Agree. It's a violent enough sport, I can do without the intentional maiming. Hiding/downplaying injuries is commonplace so players aren't targeted, but it happens. Maybe it's a grandpa phrase, but it is 'unsportsmanlike conduct' IMO. As a Packer fan I'm not especially proud of Charles Martin effectively ending Jim McMahon's career as a starting QB, and I hated McMahon. Karma is a b****; I certainly wouldn't want Julius Peppers returning the favor to Aaron Rodgers.

McGinn's claims about injury history are understandable but spotty, since the roster is still dotted with players who are or have been hurt (including the aforementioned Rodgers [broken foot, concussion]). I think the organization wants to limit where possible the number of players who are hurt or have an extensive history -- there were times last year where McCarthy had to shorten practice because he didn't have enough healthy bodies, which must have an impact on their ability to teach,coach, and prepare. I think that's what he's trying to avoid this year. Hurt is one thing, available and able to play is another.

As for the soft/small thing...I think they do have some shorter/squattier bodies on the OL and DL, and Datone Jones gives them a different look. Getting Bishop back and getting rid of D.J.Smith makes them a bigger & tougher team. Losing Saturday and getting Quarless back should help as well. Lacy will help. They have brought guys in who are going to bring a little attitude which will help them. I'm still worried about the safeties -- M.D. Jennings tackles like a corner, and at CB Tramon tackled like a matador.

I honestly am less concerned with SF than I am with the other NFCN teams -- GB plays them a lot more, and you gotta win your division games to make the playoffs.

[rbaloha1]

I've been meaning to respond to Tom Silverstein's article after the draft, which carried the smallnsoft theory into an analysis of the latest draft class. The argument is that when you look at the players the Packers drafted, it's evidence they are obviously trying to get bigger, and by implication, tougher. I'm not sure how the two are connected exactly, so I won't speak tot he toughness issue. However, I would like to present some comparisons between the size of the players drafted this year and those playing the same or similar positions that the Packers have picked up in the last year or two prior to the recent draft.

Here's the link to Silverstein's article:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/205047001.html

Okay:

Offensive linemen:

2012 Andrew Datko 6-6, 315
2013 D. Bahktaeri 6-4, 301
J. Tretter 6-3, 307

Defensive linemen:

2012 J. Worthy 6-2, 308
M. Daniels 6-0, 291
2013 D. Jones, 6-4, 280
J. Boyd 6-2, 307

Linebackers:

2012: Nick Perry 6-3, 270
T. Manning 6-2, 237
2013: N. Palmer 6-2, 248
S. Barrington, 6-1, 240

Running backs:

2011-2012: A. Green 6-0, 225
D. Harris, 5-7, 197
2013: E. Lacy 5-11, 229
J. Franklin 5-10, 200

Wide Receivers:

2011 - 12: R. Cobb 5-10, 191
J. Ross 5-11, 213
J. Boykin 6-2, 218
2013: C. Johnson 6-2, 215
K. Dorsey 6-1, 207

Corner/Safety

2012: C Heyward 5-11, 185
J. McMillian 5-11, 203
2013: M Hyde 5-11, 194


I'm not going to get into deep analysis; others are more adept. I am not, on the surface, seeing this year's draft class as especially "bigger."

It the final product that counts. This years draft has a few players with larger frames that must get larger.

Expect others to get larger as well.

Strictly eyeball test -- overall the packers look like shrimps compared to the niners.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I just couldn't leave well enough alone.

I emailed good ol' Bob McGinn (it was surprisingly easy to find his email address) and asked him where he got the 27th heaviest stat from, if it was his own work or from where as I simply couldn't find it.

He replied back and stated that he got the number from a NFL release at the beginning of the season.

Cool, now I had a starting block to look for it. Couldn't find it on NFL.com and while looking for it on Google I found this article from Bob back in Feb of this year right before the SB. He mentions in it that based on the same report where the Packers are too light at the 27th heaviest overall team in the NFL, that the 49ers are the 26th heaviest team in the NFL.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/ravens-49ers-show-nfl-is-still-a-big-mans-game-m08je66-189534361.html

He does throw in the caveat that the 49ers have "big wide receivers, the jumbo O-line, large quarterbacks and a big fullback." So he's saying that their offense is really huge. The only 2 positions he doesn't mention are RB and TE as being large. So that must mean that the defense is undersized.

He continues with: "Their D-line isn't unduly heavy but there is the desired height.

Outside linebackers Aldon Smith (6-4, 262) and Ahmad Brooks (6-3, 264) are imposing, inside linebackers NaVorro Bowman (6-0½, 242) and Patrick Willis (6-1, 240) are so good their size doesn't matter, two of the top three cornerbacks stand 6-0½ and the safeties are ordinary size."

So I guess my questions are , how is it that it's such a problem for the Packers to be so light but not the 49ers? And why does he go into such depth to defend the 49ers size and states it's not relevant for the defense?

[Upnorth]

Because it plays better into the narrative that way. Do you want to be informed or entertained?

[woodbuck27]

No shit...if your gonna be soft..be firm at the same point:

Those bad.... bad.... very bad girls.

[SnakeLH2006]

Those bad.... bad.... very bad girls.

No shit. That's Snake's life...why the fuck you think I don't post much anymore...lol. We are both into that shit. It's kind of like when your a kid and like Reece's Pieces..and get access to a 2 lb. bag of them..you still like them, but then it's not as fun...but still is....I dunno. Snake has for the life of me dated hot ass chicks/they are enamored and willing to do whatever..it's fun...but I get bored a bit...thus posting more lately when I have time. My girl is finishing up her school/internships/getting a great job soon for major money so she can buy me a new house....but check out the most hardcore sex shit you can find with the hottest chicks...I've been doing that forever..no bragging...just I do it and always have and will...I get fucking bored with the same chick tho...but been with her longer than most...cuz she can cook...holy shit ya.

As far as the UFC shit...I got bored with that too. I get soooo bored. Snake gets soooooo bored with EVERYTHING. I love the Pack tho...but hey getting back to sports talk...hey for the last 6 years the Packers have been beaten by more physical teams. Physical teams like the Giants/Niners/Ravens have been beating peeps up and winning. Why not invest in some bruisers like Lacy...some lineman..get Jolly back....etc.? I'm happy bout Lacy if he can not get hurt...just need a few big nasty OL and we are set. It's not always about being the fastest or biggest...but just laying some wood and striking fear in mofos. Works with women who run the world....why not the NFL? LMAO.

Man I remember being a kid loving this guy: