For the Packer Denialists

[rbaloha1]

Its amusing to read the denialists sounding like old drunken sailors.

[rbaloha1]

You're right on the money with your views, JH. Those read option QBs get out there in space and they are running backs, but everyone wants to get that big shot on them because they are the QB and everyone knows you can entirely end a team's threat by KOing the QB. You don't have to look much further than RGIII to know how devastating an injury to a running QB can be. The threat to run is what makes the running QB so dangerous. Start using it as a primary weapon and your primary weapon goes bye bye pretty fast.

In other threads some have suggested that there will be more of these running types and that they might be more interchangeable, so you won't need the same QB longevity but I don't see it. You have to have the brains and the throwing arm in addition to the running ability and it's just tough to get those all together in one package - and keep it healthy. (Obviously if these guys are right, then the RO/pistol will stick around, but that would represent a seismic shift in the NFL)

If your defense is solely worry about a kill shot on the qb you will not contain the offense.

How do you counter when a team has a protector around the qb to counter your guys continual charade of killing qb?

IS KILLING THE QB YOU ONLY DEFENSE AGAINST SPREAD OPTION?

[RashanGary]

Never dismissed injuries. Read option has only been around for one year so you can not compare to pocket passing. You are to black and white to have any discussion -- all current nfl read option qbs except from Tebow can throw from the pocket.

My position is read option is a dimension (Jaws's opinion) and not a revolution (Dilfer's opinion)

You keep dreaming about this stuff to vanish -- it will not in your lifetime. Your dinasour cliches is part of the problem with arrogant coordinators like Capers, LebEau, Kiffin, etc. Guys like Belichek and Carroll learn, adapt and introduce it to their offenses.

And her in lies your problem. You watch ESPN. It's something to talk about. Those guys are going to get hurt. Mark it down.

[rbaloha1]

And her in lies your problem. You watch ESPN. It's something to talk about. Those guys are going to get hurt. Mark it down.

SO DO YOU. I watch numerous stuff and was a former rover defending read option, run and shoot, etc.

Your problem is wishful thinking rather than what is evolving.

[Patler]

There is another side to this that people are not considering.

For the last few years, by rule and by rule interpretation the NFL has attempted to protect QBs at all cost. A lot of it has been based on the belief that QBs were runners only by happenstance. If OCs attempt to take advantage of that by designing more and more plays for intentional carries by the QB, those protections will be lessened, either by rule change or by interpretation. They can't have their cake and eat it too. Close calls now go to QBs. They won't in the future. QBs will be treated like football players again.

QB's racking up run after run, and repeatedly showing up defenders with semi-taunts like bicep flexes, bicep kisses, and maybe even "the belt" will become targets. For the last 3-4 years defenders have been retraining themselves to back off when they get close to a QB. Instead of tackling violently, they tend to tackle them easily, because they are so heavily scrutinized when hitting a QB. But, if QBs continue to rack up huge days running the ball, that will be reversed. Defenders will not back off when getting close to tackling a Kaepernick, but will remind him of the game he is playing. They will risk the penalty that might come with it. I also suspect the NFL will look less harshly on hits up field than hits in the pocket.

Again, you can't expect a QB to be treated with kid gloves, then use him like a running back. Defensive players won't allow it. I suspect that neither will officials or the league.

[RashanGary]

(Obviously if these guys are right, then the RO/pistol will stick around, but that would represent a seismic shift in the NFL)

It would represent a seismic shift in the makeup of the human body, for guys to not get hurt doing things guys have gotten hurt doing since the beginning of time. RGIII didn't last. Russell Wilson is 5'10", built like a RB, he's more likely to sustain running the ball (about as likely as a RB his size, anyway.) CK is a passer first. They opened up running in the playoffs, and good for them. It was the right thing to do. It was a risk I would have taken too. I've said every year, I hope to see AR run more in the post season.

There's never been a 6'5" running back and people have been trying to run the ball for a long time. Could it happen? Sure. Will it? Nope.

CK is going to get fucked up if he tries that all season. There are guys who lay awake at night dreaming of ways to harm quarterbacks, and CK puts him in position to be harmed, badly. He got away with it for a couple games, that's it. A couple games.

This is something to talk about on ESPN. It's a way to get idiots like rbaloha all stirred up thinking they outsmarted the system. Reality is going to enter into the equation real quick. It's just like the wild-cat people. It's a joke, a gimmick, a fad. It works in college, not in the NFL. In the NFL, violence reigns supreme. QB's who are available get their team in a rhythm, they grow together. This will be a good welcome to the NFL moment for you, rbaloha. Not going to work.

[rbaloha1]

There is another side to this that people are not considering.

For the last few years, by rule and by rule interpretation the NFL has attempted to protect QBs at all cost. A lot of it has been based on the belief that QBs were runners only by happenstance. If OCs attempt to take advantage of that by designing more and more plays for intentional carries by the QB, those protections will be lessened, either by rule change or by interpretation. They can't have their cake and eat it too. Close calls now go to QBs. They won't in the future. QBs will be treated like football players again.

QB's racking up run after run, and repeatedly showing up defenders with semi-taunts like bicep flexes, bicep kisses, and maybe even "the belt" will become targets. For the last 3-4 years defenders have been retraining themselves to back off when they get close to a QB. Instead of tackling violently, they tend to tackle them easily, because they are so heavily scrutinized when hitting a QB. But, if QBs continue to rack up huge days running the ball, that will be reversed. Defenders will not back off when getting close to tackling a Kaepernick, but will remind him of the game he is playing. They will risk the penalty that might come with it. I also suspect the NFL will look less harshly on hits up field than hits in the pocket.

Again, you can't expect a QB to be treated with kid gloves, then use him like a running back. Defensive players won't allow it. I suspect that neither will officials or the league.

This is valid except in the read option qbs are not protected once they decide to run.

Generally read option qbs to a good job of protecting themselves and do not have stupid machismo to prove anything. Even TT does not run the read option like he did at Florida as a freshman.

[RashanGary]

Never dismissed injuries. Read option has only been around for one year so you can not compare to pocket passing. You are to black and white to have any discussion -- all current nfl read option qbs except from Tebow can throw from the pocket.

My position is read option is a dimension (Jaws's opinion) and not a revolution (Dilfer's opinion)

You keep dreaming about this stuff to vanish -- it will not in your lifetime. Your dinasour cliches is part of the problem with arrogant coordinators like Capers, LebEau, Kiffin, etc. Guys like Belichek and Carroll learn, adapt and introduce it to their offenses.

And her in lies your problem. You watch ESPN. It's something to talk about. Those guys are going to get hurt. Mark it down.

[ThunderDan]

RGIII is stupid for not covering up properly.

How so? What did RGIII do?

[rbaloha1]

And her in lies your problem. You watch ESPN. It's something to talk about. Those guys are going to get hurt. Mark it down.

Where does your football stuff come from? The bar room, vegas, where?

[mraynrand]

It would represent a seismic shift in the makeup of the human body, for guys to not get hurt doing things guys have gotten hurt doing since the beginning of time. RGIII didn't last. Russell Wilson is 5'10", built like a RB, he's more likely to sustain running the ball (about as likely as a RB his size, anyway.) CK is a passer first. They opened up running in the playoffs, and good for them. It was the right thing to do. It was a risk I would have taken too. I've said every year, I hope to see AR run more in the post season.

I agree completely on the longevity aspect. The seismic shift I was considering is whether you start getting more RO QBs coming up from the college ranks. And if their longevity is reduced, you need more of them. If Rbahola is right, offenses will use it sparingly to save their QBs - but then that falls into the category of 'threat' to run, rather than a primary weapon. It's an interesting trade-off, and to be sure, if physically and mentally capable QBs are more abundant, it will be here to stay, at some significant level.

[Patler]

This is valid except in the read option qbs are not protected once they decide to run.

Generally read option qbs to a good job of protecting themselves and do not have stupid machismo to prove anything. Even TT does not run the read option like he did at Florida as a freshman.

My point is the distinction will become blurred, and the protections that QBs now receive will be lessened whether by player conduct, rule interpretation or rule changes themselves. Neither defenders nor officials have on/off switches as to their conduct or interpretations based on if the QB decides to keep or not keep the ball. The more a QB keeps, the less he will be protected even when he doesn't keep, maybe even when he simply drops back to pass.

Vick has complained about that in the past with respect to hits on him.

[rbaloha1]

How so? What did RGIII do?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/redskins/2013/01/06/dr-james-andrews-disputes-coach-mike-shanahans-version-of-washington-redskins-quarterback-robert-griffin-iii-knee-injury/1811689/

Forgot that part of the problem was reentering the game when he should have come out of the game.

[mraynrand]

There is another side to this that people are not considering.

For the last few years, by rule and by rule interpretation the NFL has attempted to protect QBs at all cost. A lot of it has been based on the belief that QBs were runners only by happenstance. If OCs attempt to take advantage of that by designing more and more plays for intentional carries by the QB, those protections will be lessened, either by rule change or by interpretation. They can't have their cake and eat it too. Close calls now go to QBs. They won't in the future. QBs will be treated like football players again.

QB's racking up run after run, and repeatedly showing up defenders with semi-taunts like bicep flexes, bicep kisses, and maybe even "the belt" will become targets. For the last 3-4 years defenders have been retraining themselves to back off when they get close to a QB. Instead of tackling violently, they tend to tackle them easily, because they are so heavily scrutinized when hitting a QB. But, if QBs continue to rack up huge days running the ball, that will be reversed. Defenders will not back off when getting close to tackling a Kaepernick, but will remind him of the game he is playing. They will risk the penalty that might come with it. I also suspect the NFL will look less harshly on hits up field than hits in the pocket.

Again, you can't expect a QB to be treated with kid gloves, then use him like a running back. Defensive players won't allow it. I suspect that neither will officials or the league.

Good point, but knowing today's NFL, they will just have QBs wear a special pinnie/modified uniform during games, like during practice, and give them special protection regardless of where they are on the field.

[ThunderDan]

QBs hurt in week 10 of 2012 season.

Jay Cutler
Ben Roethlisberger
Michael Vick
Alex Smith