For the Packer Denialists

[Bossman641]

We know that -- why did Tebow have success?

How did he beat the Steelers in the playoffs?

Who the fuck cares? Do they hand out trophies for advancing past Wild Card weekend now? The Broncos beat Pittsburgh because they hit on some big plays and their defense harassed Roethlisberger all game. Even in arguably Tebow's best game ever he STILL didn't complete 50% of his passes.

And what happened the next week? NE demolished Denver.

[rbaloha1]

Who the fuck cares? Do they hand out trophies for advancing past Wild Card weekend now? The Broncos beat Pittsburgh because they hit on some big plays and their defense harassed Roethlisberger all game. Even in arguably Tebow's best game ever he STILL didn't complete 50% of his passes.

And what happened the next week? NE demolished Denver.

Year 1 -- tebow playoffs
Year 1 -- wilson playoffs
Year 1 -- rgiii playoffs
Year 1 -- ck super bowl

The denial continues ...

[rbaloha1]

Who the fuck cares? Do they hand out trophies for advancing past Wild Card weekend now? The Broncos beat Pittsburgh because they hit on some big plays and their defense harassed Roethlisberger all game. Even in arguably Tebow's best game ever he STILL didn't complete 50% of his passes.

And what happened the next week? NE demolished Denver.

The point is the success of a read option qb that can not throw.

A read option qb that can throw went to the super bowl.

[mraynrand]

A read option qb that can throw went to the super bowl.

And lost because, when it mattered, he didn't throw well and his coach didn't let him run. Will be interesting to see whether, faced with a similar situation, CK will run it - and be able to after a season of preparation by defenses. Will his passing improve? Exciting times in the NFL indeed.

[Bossman641]

Year 1 -- tebow playoffs
Year 1 -- wilson playoffs
Year 1 -- rgiii playoffs
Year 1 -- ck super bowl

The denial continues ...

Not even sure why I'm starting cause it's been proven debating with you is akin to debating a brick wall, but here goes.

I think the spread can be an excellent complement to a 'normal' NFL offense. I don't believe it's this great, unsolvable mystery you make it out to be. Wilson, RG3, and Kaepernick make it work because they are efficient passers first and foremost.

I think it's much more likely Capers, the D staff, and the players got caught with their pants down and will adjust then it is that the read option is unstoppable and we will only see 50-45 point games in the NFL.

[wist43]

You'll get an easy chance to double your money that week in vegas.

Vegas already has week 1 lines out, the Niners are favored by 5.5 pts.

I think that's low - I wouldn't bet the over/unders, but I'd definitely bet the Niners at 5.5... don't see us being able to compete with them.

If it were only a matter of x's and o's - we should have zigged instead of zagged... then you could argue all we need do is clean that stuff up, and we'd be competetive with them; but that isn't the case, they simply dominated us in every way possible. Not enough has changed between the two teams to overcome that.

We're already 0-1... so after the game, hopefully MM and TT will finally figure out they need to sit Damien down and have a heart-to-heart.

[Bossman641]

The point is the success of a read option qb that can not throw.

A read option qb that can throw went to the super bowl.

One game and one half season of Tebow does not make a trend.

Rex Grossman went to the Super Bowl too. Are turnover prone, inaccurate passers the wave of the future?

[Zool]

Are we really talking about Tebow again? He's garbage. Flat out garbage. He was like 4 for 12 heading in to the second half (I can't find the quarter splits right now). Comparing Tebow to ANY of the young guys who can actually throw a ball is an insult to all of them. He's exactly on par with Pat White. There's a reason Pat White isn't a starting QB in the NFL just as there's a reason Tim Tebow isn't a starting QB in the NFL.

For the record, that playoff game was in his second season. But facts aren't well thought of around here lately.

[mraynrand]

If it were only a matter of x's and o's - we should have zigged instead of zagged... then you could argue all we need do is clean that stuff up, and we'd be competetive with them; but that isn't the case, they simply dominated us in every way possible. Not enough has changed between the two teams to overcome that.

A lot has changed, the question is whether it will be ready, be enough. Just getting rid of Walden and Woodson is a huge step in the right direction. Now Hayward has to be that guy, when called on. Perry and Datone Jones have to be effective. Just those changes could be enough to alter the entire complexion of the game. Add in a possible Neal wrinkle for run stopping/pass rush options that confuse the Niner offense, and the Packers really could compete. A little luck with O-line health, and they can maybe exert some ball control, clock killing domination of their own. Will be exciting to be sure.

[mraynrand]

Are we really talking about Tebow again? He's garbage. Flat out garbage. He was like 4 for 12 heading in to the second half (I can't find the quarter splits right now). Comparing Tebow to ANY of the young guys who can actually throw a ball is an insult to all of them.

QFT. Tebow is a leader of men, but he has a high school arm.

[3irty1]

Vegas already has week 1 lines out, the Niners are favored by 5.5 pts.

I think that's low - I wouldn't bet the over/unders, but I'd definitely bet the Niners at 5.5... don't see us being able to compete with them.

If it were only a matter of x's and o's - we should have zigged instead of zagged... then you could argue all we need do is clean that stuff up, and we'd be competetive with them; but that isn't the case, they simply dominated us in every way possible. Not enough has changed between the two teams to overcome that.

We're already 0-1... so after the game, hopefully MM and TT will finally figure out they need to sit Damien down and have a heart-to-heart.

I'm not disagreeing but I'm not going to speak in absolutes or talk about betting on the 9ers like its a can't-miss investment either. I agree its a lousy matchup, but I'm never surprised by a Packers win. Their best is more than good enough.

[mraynrand]

I agree its a lousy matchup, but I'm never surprised by a Packers win. Their best is more than good enough.

why hold contrary opinions in your head. Holy, hedging, Batman! It's a lousy matchup if you assume everything from last year stays the same and/or you assume the Niners are just that much better an organization than the Packers.

[3irty1]

why hold contrary opinions in your head. Holy, hedging, Batman! It's a lousy matchup if you assume everything from last year stays the same and/or you assume the Niners are just that much better an organization than the Packers.

Can't just some of the things from last year stay the same?

[mraynrand]

Can't just some of the things from last year stay the same?

sure they can. But will all the Packer weaknesses be the same? Injuries, age, inexperience at critical positions all over again? It's possible there will be new ones, but there will be for the Niners as well. For example, It's entirely possible CK will have a 'sophomore' slump due to some serious offseason game planning.

[pbmax]

You are repping what I said from day one -- qbs currently running read option all can throw from the pocket. Throwing from the pocket remains important.

However Tebow had playoff success without being able to throw. How do traditionalists/denialists/apologists explain this one?

If by current read option QBs you mean the current four (CK, RG3, Newton and Wilson) then you simple have taken a select sample, looked at it over a very short period of time and reached a conclusion your data is not strong enough to support. Also, Wilson ran very little read option (and not before the 2nd half of the year) and was mainly a mobile pocket passer who could run ala Rodgers.

If by QB currently running read option you mean the current crop of college athletes as well, we don't know how they will do. What we do know is that most won't make it and many of them will be unable to cut it as an NFL passer. Tebow is the Poster Boy for this. Scott Brunner won one playoff game as well, so that tells us nothing.