The Skinbasket Weighs in on New Redskins Nicknames

[pbmax]

But your previous post seems to suggest that the two critical elements of a derogatory symbol have to be 1) that it represents a (presumably oppressed) minority, and 2) that the symbol actually has to be viewed as offensive by the purportedly offended party. Which helps explain the reality that the Seminoles like being represented by a college team.

I do not recall the basis the judge used to dismiss or find in favor of the defendant. My criteria are just my criteria, not from that case.

But I find the idea of random sample polling (correctly done) as not representative of the larger whole to be an attack on reason in general.

[hoosier]

we dont have a guy in a native american costume running around, we don't do the ridiculous chop or condescending indian chants, we don't even reference scalping in our 80 year old fight song.

Just for the record (because I really don't have a dog in this race, because I agree with the sentiment about DC citizens getting shafted, and because the rant itself is funny), but Skinbasketclone's apologia does contain a number of half-truths that compromise the strength of argument:

We don't have a guy in a native american costume running around: Who is this "we"? Does it include Chief Zee, the "unofficial mascot" of the Skins?

we don't do the ridiculous chop or condescending indian chants, we don't even reference scalping in our 80 year old fight song: That is because today's version has been largely sanitized (except for the "braves on the warpath" line) Guess which ones were eliminated--considerably less than 80 years ago.

Hail to the Redskins!

Hail Victory!

Braves on the Warpath!

Fight for old Dixie!

Run or pass and score -- we want a lot more!

Scalp 'em, swamp 'em -- We will take 'em big score

Read 'em, weep 'em, touchdown - we want heap more

Fight on, Fight on -- 'Till you have won

Sons of Wash-ing-ton. Rah!, Rah!, Rah!

[MadScientist]

If they just told Dan that changing the name would result in a ton of crap with the new name being sold, I'd bet he'd consider it.

The could change the name to the Pig Skins which would keep the 'Skins nickname and also work with the 'hogs' name for the o-line. The Pig Skins name would only offend PETA, and offending them is a good thing.

[mraynrand]

Hail to the Redskins!

Hail Victory!

Braves on the Warpath!

Fight for old Dixie!

Run or pass and score -- we want a lot more!

Scalp 'em, swamp 'em -- We will take 'em big score

Read 'em, weep 'em, touchdown - we want heap more

Fight on, Fight on -- 'Till you have won

Sons of Wash-ing-ton. Rah!, Rah!, Rah!

You could get 'em away with that years ago, but not now when owe heap money to casino

[mraynrand]

I do not recall the basis the judge used to dismiss or find in favor of the defendant. My criteria are just my criteria, not from that case.

But I find the idea of random sample polling (correctly done) as not representative of the larger whole to be an attack on reason in general.

I agree with the second, and as to the first, I meant what I gleaned to be your criteria, and what I think should be the criteria generally

[Freak Out]

A Roc.

[cheesner]

my vote

[woodbuck27]

(re: Pollin) Yeah, it was long ago I had to look up the particulars. In fact, that story seems almost too pat, but I couldn't find an account contrary to those facts. Who knows, he might have needed to put fannies in the seats and thought it would help. I just don't remember a campaign over it.

I don't have much patience for legal means to force the Redskins nickname to change*, but I am equally impatient with people who try to dodge that the Redskins name is a slur. Its just an excuse to make the fans feel better, but its a slur none-the-less. Also, while Skinbasket clone feels better that his stadium doesn't do the chop or have a Native American in full dress roaming the sideline, he should take time to mention the helmet logo.

Opponents just ought to play the long game and continually remind fans that they are celebrating a racial slur.

A better question is the Warriors nickname. That one makes the most sense.

*Great moment in judicial non-understanding over this issue. In a lawsuit over the Redskin nickname that was ultimately lost by the plaintiffs, the ruling judge held as fact that it could not be proven that a plurality or majority of Indigenous People in the area felt disrespected over the name. He concluded that such information was a practical impossibility and that the polling data that the plaintiff had submitted was just a poll of certain people and couldn't possibly, correctly convey the sentiment of the whole population.

"*Great moment in judicial non-understanding over this issue. In a lawsuit over the Redskin nickname that was ultimately lost by the plaintiffs, the ruling judge held as fact that it could not be proven that a plurality or majority of Indigenous People in the area felt disrespected over the name. He concluded that such information was a practical impossibility and that the polling data that the plaintiff had submitted was just a poll of certain people and couldn't possibly, correctly convey the sentiment of the whole population." pbmax

I'm guessing that that particular judge wasn't a political appointment. That he was generally disinterested and ignorant of politics.

[red]

i really do think they should go for a less offensive name

maybe the "silly negros"?

[sooner6600]

Red:

Why not Foreskins.

This woulld be in keeping with GLBT comunity and be soooooo inclusive.

Why cant we get along?

Thoughts?

[CaptainD]

USFL had it right >>>> Washington Federals

[MadtownPacker]

This is a great topic so let's keep politics out of the thread so it doesn't get moved.

[swede]

Red:

Why not Foreskins.

Foreskin joke:

A mohel walks into leatherworker's shop and dumps a sack of foreskins onto the counter. He says to the man, "I've saved these for twenty years. Make me something nice with them. I'll be back in a week."

The week passes and the mohel returns. The leatherworker pushes a beautiful coin purse across the counter and says, "This is some of my best work."

"Whaat?" says the mohel, "I give you a whole sack of foreskins and this is all I get? It's so small!"

"Rub it," said the leatherworker, "it turns into a suitcase."

[Pugger]

But your previous post seems to suggest that the two critical elements of a derogatory symbol have to be 1) that it represents a (presumably oppressed) minority, and 2) that the symbol actually has to be viewed as offensive by the purportedly offended party. Which helps explain the reality that the Seminoles like being represented by a college team.

Yes, the Seminole Tribe of Florida officially sanctions the use of the Seminole as Florida State University’s nickname and of Osceola as FSU's symbol. Max Osceola, the chief and general council president of the Seminole Tribe of Florida, has stated that he regards it as an “honor” to be associated with the university. The university has a student wear attire approved by the Tribe to come out on a horse with a flaming spear before each home game. Maybe if the Redskins approach a local tribe and do likewise - change their name to a particular tribe (and all other institutions that want to use a Native American symbol) they can put an end to this controversy.

[woodbuck27]

This is a great topic so let's keep politics out of the thread so it doesn't get moved.

I felt this was coming. It's very slow right now.