The Skinbasket Weighs in on New Redskins Nicknames

[Smeefers]

As for the Fightin' Whiteys and their shirts, the quote covers all the relevant differences. The Whitey are the majority and some/most in the area feel no particular compunction about the name being used by a minority group for profit. Its benign enough to, literally, buy into. Also, while Whitey might very well be used in a derogatory sense, there are multiple positive examples of it. Unless you are describing a potato, its not really an analogue for Redskins.

I doubt the same reaction would be had if that team was named the Fightin' Hibes or Fightin' Kikes.

The Redskins are not about to hand over a portion of ownership to Indigenous Americans nor are they currently sharing royalties over their trademarks.

Skinbasket Clone may feel that no disrespect intended washes his hands clean, but he is only one end of the communication. In a commercial enterprise, the intent of a consumer is pretty irrelevant.

I disagree with your analogy to the fightin hibes or kikes.

It would more be like the fighting tanskins or the whiteskins or the blackskins

It's nowhere near something like the fighting n<censored>rskins.

[pbmax]

Yes, the Seminole Tribe of Florida officially sanctions the use of the Seminole as Florida State University’s nickname and of Osceola as FSU's symbol. Max Osceola, the chief and general council president of the Seminole Tribe of Florida, has stated that he regards it as an “honor” to be associated with the university. The university has a student wear attire approved by the Tribe to come out on a horse with a flaming spear before each home game. Maybe if the Redskins approach a local tribe and do likewise - change their name to a particular tribe (and all other institutions that want to use a Native American symbol) they can put an end to this controversy.

Yes. I wonder what the difference here is between the Seminoles and the Fighting Sioux of North Dakota. At one point, they school had at least a business relationship with the tribe and sanction with their arena or perhaps a sponsorship for a gate. But apparently something was different here than in Florida because they are being forced to change (last I heard) and the Seminoles are not.

[Fritz]

Yes, the Seminole Tribe of Florida officially sanctions the use of the Seminole as Florida State University’s nickname and of Osceola as FSU's symbol. Max Osceola, the chief and general council president of the Seminole Tribe of Florida, has stated that he regards it as an “honor” to be associated with the university. The university has a student wear attire approved by the Tribe to come out on a horse with a flaming spear before each home game. Maybe if the Redskins approach a local tribe and do likewise - change their name to a particular tribe (and all other institutions that want to use a Native American symbol) they can put an end to this controversy.

Maybe they could be the Punchin' Potowatamis.

Or the Red Skin Baskets.

[pbmax]

I disagree with your analogy to the fightin hibes or kikes.

It would more be like the fighting tanskins or the whiteskins or the blackskins

It's nowhere near something like the fighting n<censored>rskins.

Perhaps not as flammable as the fightin' n<censored>skins, but I think it has a history of derogatory usage beyond a simple comparable of color of skin. Yellow man, maybe, but I think closer to chink. The redskin usage is uncommon enough today that it doesn't seem at all to rise to the level of the n-word*, but I think its history is more bleak than recently memory has it. Having not done any reading on it beyond this topic, probably makes me unqualified to judge a comparison between the two.

If they approached the tribes, I wonder if any of them would take them up on some kind of offer. The Seminoles were mentioned earlier, but redskin is general enough I am not sure any tribe would want to touch it.


* At some point I will be adult enough to simply type n-word out correctly like I did chink, but something always holds me back. I think I fear Richard Pryor (or maybe Michael Richards) yelling at me from the stage.

[pbmax]

Maybe they could be the Punchin' Potowatamis.

Or the Red Skin Baskets.

They would never do it, but the Potato logo would be fantastic.

[pbmax]

I agree with the second, and as to the first, I meant what I gleaned to be your criteria, and what I think should be the criteria generally

I see. I think the generic names, like Warriors should be available. Specific, like Seminoles or Sioux, would need the consent of the group as they have legal standing in the US, minority or insult not withstanding.

Insults like Redmen, Redskins and Chief Wahoo should be left for the team and the public to debate. So online petitions and mock Twitter accounts.

[KYPack]

I heard a story that the DC organization has already copyrighted the name "Buckskins".

That way they could keep their copyright on the shortened "Skins" nickname.

[King Friday]

Just call them the Spooks...and let them have access to the NSA database to compile the most massive playbook in the history of football. Forget a binder, you'll need a couple warehouses.

[pbmax]

Just call them the Spooks...and let them have access to the NSA database to compile the most massive playbook in the history of football. Forget a binder, you'll need a couple warehouses.

Desk Jockeys or Bureaucrat No. 5

[mraynrand]

I see. I think the generic names, like Warriors should be available.

I recall Marquette changing their name. I also remember back in the day, you would go to the game and a college kid would come out at halftime and do an authentic Indian dance. The thing was legit, but I guess it aroused the ire of the sensitive types. Ironic thing was that just a generation later I recall my kindergarten kid (In Madison, no less) going to an authentic Indian dance celebrating Native American Heritage and it was almost exactly the same thing, except that it was promoted for a week on NPR prior to the field trip. I guess if it's in the name of Capitalism it's evil and demeaning, but in the name of celebrating diversity, it's great. Context, context...

Specific, like Seminoles or Sioux, would need the consent of the group as they have legal standing in the US, minority or insult not withstanding.

Insults like Redmen, Redskins and Chief Wahoo should be left for the team and the public to debate. So online petitions and mock Twitter accounts.

that's pretty good parsing and it makes sense

[mraynrand]

Just call them the Spooks...and let them have access to the NSA database to compile the most massive playbook in the history of football. Forget a binder, you'll need a couple warehouses.

The Washington Spooks - not controversial at all! I always was partial to the "Washington Monuments," especially if the players were a bunch of stiffs

[woodbuck27]

Maybe they could be the Punchin' Potowatamis.

Or the Red Skin Baskets.

The Punchin' Potowatamis.

You just made 'my Lady' Mae laugh Fritz. Mae says that she's 'a lover' not a fighter.

Also...that's spelled Potawatomi. Mae's origin is one half Potawatomi (Maternal); the other half French-Quebecois (Paternal).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potawatomi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebecois

[mraynrand]

I heard a story that the DC organization has already copyrighted the name "Buckskins".

That way they could keep their copyright on the shortened "Skins" nickname.

Sheepskins, Potatoskins, Thinskins (you could nickname them the asshats, and get banned), Rednoses, Redrums, Redinks, Redlines.....

[pbmax]

I recall Marquette changing their name. I also remember back in the day, you would go to the game and a college kid would come out at halftime and do an authentic Indian dance. The thing was legit, but I guess it aroused the ire of the sensitive types. Ironic thing was that just a generation later I recall my kindergarten kid (In Madison, no less) going to an authentic Indian dance celebrating Native American Heritage and it was almost exactly the same thing, except that it was promoted for a week on NPR prior to the field trip. I guess if it's in the name of Capitalism it's evil and demeaning, but in the name of celebrating diversity, it's great. Context, context...

That is the unfortunate thing about time and distance. If Marquette had been a little more careful earlier, perhaps either sought sanction or invited the tribes to participate with the kid/mascot, I think it could have been avoided.

No one can convince me that a school in Milwaukee (named Marquette for God's sake) and in a State that was/is home to several tribes could not have found classes, performances and real world interaction/internships/scholarships/etc that incorporated actual Indigenous Culture with the school that would have made sticking with Warriors possible.

And I think the school would have benefitted far more than the Tribes in a way that had nothing to do with a kid dressed up at halftime.

But I am an incorrigible optimist.

[mraynrand]

Pugilistic Potomacs

Cantankerous Constitutionalists

Lillylivered Lawgivers