The Skinbasket Weighs in on New Redskins Nicknames

[mraynrand]

Which is worse:

[pbmax]

Indian isn't offensive any more than Caucasian is. Redskin is offensive because its a description with no positive interpretation (unless you find red skin attractive I guess). Chiefs and Braves could be construed as complimentary in most manners. I believe Blackhawks were an actual tribe (??). If I owned the Redskins I would change their name to the mighty whiteys and end the subject.

Context is everything re: Indians

[woodbuck27]

Context is everything re: Indians

In my view this simply has to come down to what the American Native population generally says or feels about the Washington Redskin name.

Should any non native stand in for a justifiable or valued comment?

[mraynrand]

I'm in favor of changing the nickname for Cleveland to the "Heroin Addicts" The heroin trade is exploding in Cleveland and the mascot should represent modern social trends. Base the logo on this guy, in the spirit of Chief Wahoo... (Cleveland: we put the HERO in heroin!)

[mraynrand]

Or better yet: the Cleveland Heroines - it's kinda gender inclusive and ambiguous all at the same time.

[pbmax]

Heroin definitely conveys a good time but its also a national phenomenon not unique to Cleveland and a lot of the work of the industry has been out-souced offshore.

If going this direction, I would go with the Meth-Heads. Fun and national too, but local production facilities make it seem like a homegrown industry. Also takes advantage of popular culture popularity.

[mraynrand]

Meth-head is too negative. So is heroin (there is an active campaign in Cleveland to 'fight' it). So 'Cleveland Heroines' is perfect because to oppose it would expose you as a misogynistic, bigoted pig.

[denverYooper]

The Cleveland Tweakers

[Guiness]

Indian isn't offensive any more than Caucasian is. Redskin is offensive because its a description with no positive interpretation (unless you find red skin attractive I guess). Chiefs and Braves could be construed as complimentary in most manners. I believe Blackhawks were an actual tribe (??). If I owned the Redskins I would change their name to the mighty whiteys and end the subject.

To echo pbmax, context is everything, and 'Indians' can and is used in a very derogatory manner, and used to generalize a large, diverse population.

I would think a large part of the problem is that the people who are being referred to have no association with or control over how something which identifies them is being used. I played many hockey games vs the Wiky Reds, which was a team based out of an Indian reserve. That's a team that should be carrying the name.

[mraynrand]

To echo pbmax, context is everything, and 'Indians' can and is used in a very derogatory manner, and used to generalize a large, diverse population.

except that there is virtually no one left who even comes close to representing the symbol to whom "Chief Wahoo" appears derogatory. It's no worse than say a symbol that depicts ancestral whites from northern UK as being excessively belligerent while under the influence of alcohol. Anyway, if you put aside "Chief Wahoo" there is nothing at all different between a team nicknamed the 'Indians' versus the 'Patriots', except in the minds of ----- -------- (redacted, FYI), who are concerned with political correctness. (yet ironically, the same people who hate 'Chief Wahoo' in turn mock people dressed up as actual Patriots from colonial times).

[pbmax]

Yet, the number of sports teams identified as the Fighting Irish (or perhaps you meant the Fighting Scots) is very limited. So limited in fact, that it is unusual for the President of the most well known team not to be Irish. http://president.nd.edu/about-the-of...of-the-office/

How many Idigenous People have served on the Board of Directors or held the President's office for the Indians or Braves?

This distance between the Indians and Chief Wahoo and actual Indigenous People is the problem.

[mraynrand]

Yet, the number of sports teams identified as the Fighting Irish (or perhaps you meant the Fighting Scots) is very limited. So limited in fact, that it is unusual for the President of the most well known team not to be Irish. http://president.nd.edu/about-the-of...of-the-office/

How many Idigenous People have served on the Board of Directors or held the President's office for the Indians or Braves?

This distance between the Indians and Chief Wahoo and actual Indigenous People is the problem.

The point isn't board positions, it's whether the symbol has any real significance to anything current at all. Most native american team symbols are completely benign or are flattering (i.e. an authentic indian headdress). Also, I can't think of a team symbol that was intended to highlight a negative aspect of that symbol, except perhaps a diminutive bellicose leprechaun. Most indian nicknames are highlighting their prowess in battle.

Personally, I like the Blue Jackets:

The Blue Jackets name was selected because the name pays homage to Ohio’s contributions to American history and the great pride and patriotism exhibited by its citizens, especially during the Civil War as both the state of Ohio and the city of Columbus were significantly influential on the Union Army. Ohio contributed more of its population to the Union Army than any other state, while many of the Blue Coats worn by the Union soldiers were manufactured in Columbus.

[bobblehead]

To echo pbmax, context is everything, and 'Indians' can and is used in a very derogatory manner, and used to generalize a large, diverse population.

I would think a large part of the problem is that the people who are being referred to have no association with or control over how something which identifies them is being used. I played many hockey games vs the Wiky Reds, which was a team based out of an Indian reserve. That's a team that should be carrying the name.

I guess, having grown up around Indians, I never actually considered the term negative. Nor did any Indian I ever met. Just for the record is "frenchman, Italian, chinese" also derogatory? Should Indian Motorcycles change their name? Should we no longer have Indian reservations?

If context is everything, then the context of naming your sports team after them is an honor. No one names teams after disgraceful things. The buffalo buffoons. The wisconsin wussies. The denver democrats (completely disgraceful).

[bobblehead]

I played many hockey games vs the Wiky Reds, which was a team based out of an Indian reserve. That's a team that should be carrying the name.

BUZZ...wrong answer. If its insulting, its insulting. I don't think any dolphins have ownership interest in the Miami team. Nor do the 49ers of old have any say in the SF team.

[Guiness]

except that there is virtually no one left who even comes close to representing the symbol to whom "Chief Wahoo" appears derogatory. It's no worse than say a symbol that depicts ancestral whites from northern UK as being excessively belligerent while under the influence of alcohol. Anyway, if you put aside "Chief Wahoo" there is nothing at all different between a team nicknamed the 'Indians' versus the 'Patriots', except in the minds of ----- -------- (redacted, FYI), who are concerned with political correctness. (yet ironically, the same people who hate 'Chief Wahoo' in turn mock people dressed up as actual Patriots from colonial times).

I read that several times, and really not sure what you are trying to say - particularly in the first sentence. I think you mean there are no actual warrior Indian Chiefs left?