Patriot-Panther Call Correct?

[Guiness]

Woodbuck, I understand you passion for the letter of the rules. I tend to think that way too. But, Gronkowski's comments yesterday, that there was no P.I., is making me think about this differently. I suspect he is evaluating it with respect to what normally happens and what is allowed on an average play. Contact is common. Defenders trying to shield a player from his intended route, the receiver pushing to separate, all happen to some extent on a majority of plays, especially in the confined area of the red zone.

Maybe in his own mind, Gronkowaki knows he could never have made it back to the ball, and he knows he didn't try. Thus, while the defender was clearly shielding him, he knows it didn't actually affect anything that he tried to do. He knows he intended to go to the back of the endzone, and he knows he didn't even try to come back to the ball. The rest was just typically jostling that he deals with all the time.

Could that be it??

I agree with this, except that I wouldn't call it 'shielding'. Looked like an outright hold to me, the LB pretty much had him wrapped up. But then I was surprised when the league said there is no defensive holding once the ball is in the air. Never heard that before, you learn something new every day!

[Pugger]

Gronkowski is probably thinking; "If pretty-boy Tom had thrown it high and deep in the endzone, I could have caught the dang thing!"

I will say Brady's demeanor in the post game press conference was pretty calm considering how close they came to pulling that game out.

[Guiness]

Found a great photo on Sportsline. I just don't see how this is not a penalty. Maybe not PI, but it has to be something!

[Cheesehead Craig]

Not only would the ball have had to be missed by the safety, but Gronkowski would have had to fight through Kuechly, PI or not.

Gronkowski essentially gives up on the ball. He presents no resistance or fight through Kuechly. The only guy to make a play on the ball is the safety. Saying Kuechly mugged him is simply misleading. Gronk didn't resist and Kuechly basely needed to touch him.

Gronkowski is probably thinking; "If pretty-boy Tom had thrown it high and deep in the endzone, I could have caught the dang thing!"

I agree with pb, that Gronk to me more gave up on the play than was taken out of it. Plus add in that Brady's throw really wasn't that good.

[pbmax]

Try this one:

He has to stop his retreat to the back line and doesn't. He also needs to push through or go around Kuechly to get the ball. Despite EVERY Patriots fan saying the ball would have landed right in Gronk's arms if not interfered with, its farther to the inside/left of Gronk that the still photo makes it seem.

[pbmax]

Seeing something more now. He plants his right foot to stop his momentum because if he keeps running through the end zone at his current vector, he will overrun the ball.

But by slowing, he loses the step on Kuechly he had when he first went into the end zone and getting bumped makes his position deeper and worse.

The reason he doesn't try to shed Kuechly right away is that the throw is now headed right for the safety and his only hope was to wait for the ball.

I will say this, the bump starts earlier than I thought but part of its effect is Gronk slowing himself down to avoid running past the throw.

[ThunderDan]

Try this one:

He has to stop his retreat to the back line and doesn't. He also needs to push through or go around Kuechly to get the ball. Despite EVERY Patriots fan saying the ball would have landed right in Gronk's arms if not interfered with, its farther to the inside/left of Gronk that the still photo makes it seem.

I think that clip has made me go back to PI was the correct call.

The guy who intercepts the ball is on the other side of Gronk grabbing him in that clip. The LB than grabs him and shields his progress while the DB cuts in front and makes the INT.

If someone behind Gronk can make the INT at the beginning of contact Gronk should be given the benefit of the doubt also.

[pbmax]

I don't think the safety has any effect on Gronk's movement. He has as good, if not better, view of the ball and his body is in a better position to make a break on it.

Gronk has to stop his momentum and redirect to get back to the level of the safety shallower in the end zone.

[cheesner]

Raider fans have got to be loving this. Tom 'the Golden Boy' Brady didn't get the benefit of the doubt. I understand the Tuck Rule was to the letter of the law - but how come that was the first time in the hundreds of games I saw, that it became an issue? This still isn't as blatant as the Golden Tate pushing down our DB last year either. Fuck the pussy ass Pats fans who are used to getting all the calls and are shocked when one doesn't go their way.

[woodbuck27]

I think that clip has made me go back to PI was the correct call.

The guy who intercepts the ball is on the other side of Gronk grabbing him in that clip. The LB than grabs him and shields his progress while the DB cuts in front and makes the INT.

If someone behind Gronk can make the INT at the beginning of contact Gronk should be given the benefit of the doubt also.

That's how I saw it ThunderDan.

The backline judge clearly saw the hold and shove on Gronk before the ball reached the end zone. That judge does the obvious or throws the flag for an obvious penalty (a PI).

When Panthers MLB Luke Kuechly makes initial contact with Gronkowski; NO. 38 S Robert Lester of the Panthers is blocked out of the play for the eventual interception that he comes open to make .... as Gronk is cleared out of the way by Kuechly.

That momentum of Gronk's to the rear of the end zone was certainly assisted by the efforts to defend the pass by Kuechly. That effort cleared the way for Robert lester to make the interception that should not have ended that game because of pass interference.

His efforts in light of obvious film detail should have and 'in fact' did demonstrate a classic example of a pass interference.

RE:

" Maybe in his own mind, Gronkowaki knows he could never have made it back to the ball, and he knows he didn't try. Thus, while the defender was clearly shielding him, he knows it didn't actually affect anything that he tried to do. He knows he intended to go to the back of the endzone, and he knows he didn't even try to come back to the ball. The rest was just typically jostling that he deals with all the time.

Could that be it?? " Patler

I absolutely cannot read Gronkowski's mind in terms of his feelings and that penalty/non penalty call to end that game Patler.

I certainly can see the video and pause/play the action of that video recording and do my own analysis of that play and penalty call.

I can from that determine my conclusion and have decided to HOLD to that conclusion.

The PI should have stood after the flag was thrown. The NE Patriots awarded a penalty and one final shot at securing a win.

The end result.

This is just one more example of shoddy officiating on behalf of NFL Officials. Officials that are little more than zebra's that shed their skin at the end of their NFL day to work jobs similar to what all of us work/have worked.

Accountants and teachers and Walmart Greeters and plumbers and carpenters etc.

When will the self announced BEST league in all Pro Sports ever begin to act professionally in terms of utilizing full time paid officials? Not teachers and accountants etc. that incorporate into their busy lives some NFL officiating?

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

I don't think the safety has any effect on Gronk's movement. He has as good, if not better, view of the ball and his body is in a better position to make a break on it.

Gronk has to stop his momentum and redirect to get back to the level of the safety shallower in the end zone.

pbmax:

Look carefully at the post by ThunderDan and observe Luke Kuechly's contact and movement as that helps force Gronk away from the final destination of the ball in the end zone. If you study all the video now available on this play you'll see clearly that Kuechly's initial contact with Gronk certainly helps open up a lane for S Robert Lester and set up the interception.

Luke Kuechly is fast and powerful. He's one helluva MLB. Even a big man like Gronk is going to get moved by a defender such as Kuechly. In this case it's Gronks size and strength that actually prevented Kuechly from almost dropping Gronk to the turf.

Luke Kuechly is all over Gronk extremely close to the same horizontal plane as where the ball is interceted by Robert Lester. From that position Luke Kuechly certainly helps prevent Gronk from seting his feet and possibly making the catch.

It's all right there and easy to see that the PI should have stood up.

[pbmax]

pbmax:

Look carefully at the post by ThunderDan and observe Luke Kuechly's contact and movement as that helps force Gronk away from the final destination of the ball in the end zone. If you study all the video now available on this play you'll see clearly that Kuechly's initial contact with Gronk certainly helps open up a lane for S Robert Lester and set up the interception.

Luke Kuechly is fast and powerful. He's one helluva MLB. Even a big man like Gronk is going to get moved by a defender such as Kuechly. .

Nope, I do not see that and I will tell you why. Gronk takes his first step to stop his momentum AFTER the safety has passed in front of him. He sets/plants his feet in opposition to his direction to slow down and stay in the flight path of the ball. After this step, Kuechly comes into contact with Gronk and you can argue about who moves who where; though I can tell you that Gronk has a better base and Kuechly nearly falls down as a result.

But before Gronk commits his first act to slow down and alter his trajectory, the safety has already moved to get ahead of him and past him.

[woodbuck27]

Nope, I do not see that and I will tell you why. Gronk takes his first step to stop his momentum AFTER the safety has passed in front of him. He sets/plants his feet in opposition to his direction to slow down and stay in the flight path of the ball. After this step, Kuechly comes into contact with Gronk and you can argue about who moves who where; though I can tell you that Gronk has a better base and Kuechly nearly falls down as a result.

But before Gronk commits his first act to slow down and alter his trajectory, the safety has already moved to get ahead of him and past him.

Look again pbmax.

I see that it's close to what you see yet Gronkowski trys to plant his feet just prior to Panther S Robert Lester crossing his sight of line of the balls trajectory. Gronkowski cannot do that with Luke Kuechly all over him and moving Gronk away from the balls flight. As you observed Luke Kuechly almost falls down Gronks body and that's because Gronk is doing his very best to get set and back to the ball.

That Sir was a clear PI penalty and in a final summation.... just another blown call by NFL Officials.

You are set on seeing it your way and me in mine.

That should be the END of this discussion. A discussion that should be about far more than one more blown call by shoddy NFL Officials.

What should be done about it? That's the real topic of discussion we need here in the future pbmax.

GO PACK GO !

[Guiness]

Look again pbmax.

You do enjoy a good argument, don't you! Far better than simple refutation.

[woodbuck27]

You do enjoy a good argument, don't you! Far better than simple refutation.

I don't argue Guiness. I try my best to persuade. It's all very cool.

This is about a lot more that any possibly missed PI call and that standing up as a penalty that affects an outcome.

I've always tried to be 'the teacher'. The real deal in this discussion is 'the bigger picture'.

NFL officiating should be a lot better then what we often suffer as NFL fans.


simple refutation ... Hell No ! I'm too Irish.