When did the Green Bay Packers Defense begin it's decline? Specifics and solutions?

[woodbuck27]

When did the Green Bay Packers Defense begin it's decline? Specifics and solutions?

I posted this on another thread today and then realized that this information might better serve us Packer fans if it's the origin of another thread:

Green Bay Packers Defensive Decline History and Reasons Unspecified:

The best performance by any Packer 'D' in the Ted Thompson...Mike McCarthy

Era: * At the end of the 2008 season * when it was allowing just [COLOR="#008000"]284 Y/G[/COLOR.

How good was that defense? In comparison that Packer defense compared favorably to the top ranked defenses in the NFL today:

i) The Seattle Seahawks @ nearly 280 Y/G

ii) The Carolina Panthers @ 296 Y/G.

It's not been the same since the beginning of the 2009 season and frankly the Green Bay Packer defense has been suffering severe fallout. In a state of severe decline recovering to something better only to regress again.

Specifically:

That increasing decline in the Packer defense reached a peak (maybe? surprisingly) of almost *** [B]412 Y/G at the end of the 2010 season[/B]. That ***decline compared to * is a
decline of a whopping .

Yes ! A decline of nearly 45%.

That clearly places exclamation mark (s) after the name

Aaron Rodgers !!!

Where does that decline from when the TT & MM Era 'D' measured best, measure today?

Today the Packer 'D' is measured as allowing 376 Y/G

or positioned in that decline I refer to at 32 %.

As a member here I cannot offer any consolation to those of you who are possibly confused about the reason (s) for the recurring decline in the Packer defense. I simply realize the immensity of the problem. I will participate in trying
to offer some strategy that Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy and his coaching staff may well employ. Of course as the fan (s) frustration isn't out of the question. Neither is a state of consolation to or absolute contentment.

It's clear that the Packer defense has declined to such a proportion that many here at Packerats are at a loss to know where to begin in terms of some solution. A severe decline to where the yards allowed on defense has contributed to the Packer points for being <<< less than >>> the points against or points allowed by the Packer defense.

A study of Toxic Differential reveals that at present the Green Bay Packers measure at -3 and all of that on the Turn Over Differential. The Team... scores a zero in terms of the Big Play Differential. That places the team in the 15th slot or 'just' OK.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/toxic-differential/2013/

What have we seen of late in terms of any success?

We have watched the Green Bay Packers mount amazing to increasingly amazing comeback's. Amazing comebacks that gave the team 2 wins by a single point margin of victory and a tie. With the state of our defense overall; I'm
concerned that those amazing comebacks won't hold any water in terms of the teams future success.

The Packer defense RANKS 26th Overall.

The Packer defense RANKS 22nd Vs the Pass.

The Packer defense RANKS 25th against the run.

The Packer defense surrenders more points that it's offense scores;

giving up a 21st Ranked 25.9 Points/Game.


a) What is the reason for this serious dilemma we as Packer

fans see clearly with the teams defense?

b) Why has the Packer defense continued in decline (yes);

but moreso concerning. - To severely decline over the past now FIVE (5) seasons?

i) Is it as easy as pointing to 'an impossible to overcome', state of adversity?

ii) Is it the quality of player talent /competency on the teams roster, moreso measured in terms of depth?

III) Is it an outright overall failure in Ted Thompson and his Scouting teams ability to locate talent on 'D' for the draft?

iv) Does any strategy of drafting that dilutes the overall quality of the draft ( ie trading down) translate to poorer Roster depth?

V) May we associate TT's selection of high draft pics on the defensive side of the ball with misfortune thus added adversity?

vi) Does blame fall on Mike McCarthy? Does Mike McCarthy have the parts it really takes to be deemed a truly great NFL Head Coach?

VII) Again in reference to the Packers HC. Is it a specific failure in ways and manners to prepare and motivate the defensive players. To get those players 'FIRED UP' before games and to maintain that tempo or positive attitude; that otherwise may be pointed to as some degree of blame?

I feel sure of this and I'll sum it up here:

With the task the Green Bay Packers have had to deal with. Doing their best to deal with, since the injury to Aaron Rodgers. Much has been revealed. I believe that we should examine this in terms related to offering a sensible solution if such may be determined.

The blinds are now off the windows and we have a clear view inside the house.

As Packer fans here at Packerrats we owe it to the great tradition of the Green Bay Packers to try our level and sure best to determine the answers. To do so calmly and objectively as that challenge will serve us.


GO PACK GO !

[Cleft Crusty]

Cumulative effect of injuries. Perry, Pickett and Jolly were a really nice run-stopping defensive front. All have been severely compromised. Matthew's injury (as well as other LBs) is obvious, so is Caper's refusal to move Matthews around (until second half of Dallas game) and take advantage of his skills, instead of running him into the best Tackle on every team, even though he can't fully use his hands to disengage.

[pittstang5]

When did the Green Bay Packers Defense begin it's decline?

When Nick Collins was lost - plain and simple.

[Cleft Crusty]

When did the Green Bay Packers Defense begin it's decline?

When Nick Collins was lost - plain and simple.

Well, if you're talking about their peak at the end of 2010, then the end began when Woodson broke his collar bone. I thought he was pretty much done after 2010 anyway, that just made it official. Losing Collins shortly into the next season quickly resulted in losing two huge playmakers in the defense, who have yet to be replaced. If Capers had any sense, he would have Neal, Perry and other backups man the OLB position and start moving Matthews all over the place in the "W" role. Still need to fill the Collins position; Burnett is not the answer.

[woodbuck27]

The Green Bay Packers - 2007 - Present... RE. Pts. For Vs. Pts. Allowed


Year..............Points For...............Points Allowed...........................Differential

2007.................27.2......................... 18.2................................+ 9.0

2008.................26.2......................... 23.8................................+ 2.4

2009.................28.8......................... 18.6................................+ 10.2

2010..................24.3........................ 15.0................................+ 9.3

2011.................35.0......................... 22.4................................+ 12.6

2012.................27.1..........................21. 0...............................+ 6.1

2013 ...............25.2...........................25.9 ..............................Neg. 0.7



PACKERS !

[MadScientist]

1) Loss of big time play makers (Woodson and Collins)
2) Decline of other players (Raji, Pickett, even Mathews to some extent)
3) No new top talent added (Peri, D Jones, Daniels, etc. have at best shown flashes, but no consistent great play)
4) Defense has been figured out. There have been times where other teams said things like 'We got the look we were expecting in that situation.'

Now #4 sounds like an indictment of Dom, but it might be a symptom caused by 1-3. Meaning Dom is not doing more creative play calling because he doesn't trust the players to make the plays needed. He's putting the defense in the position where it is less likely to screw up badly, but it increases the offenses chance to be moderately successful. We talk about coaches loosing their players, but here maybe a case of the players loosing their coach.

Keys to fixing this:
1) Draft better
2) Sign some mid-level FA's to cover some holes and give better flexibility for the draft (the Packers don't have the cap to go big, and should not worry about comp picks, at least this year).
3) New DC. Even if it is the players more than Dom, a new DC may have different schemes that better fit the Packers players. Also this would lead to new unscouted looks that may give them a boost for the next season, as long as the DC is competent.

[woodbuck27]

1) Loss of big time play makers (Woodson and Collins)
2) Decline of other players (Raji, Pickett, even Mathews to some extent)
3) No new top talent added (Peri, D Jones, Daniels, etc. have at best shown flashes, but no consistent great play)
4) Defense has been figured out. There have been times where other teams said things like 'We got the look we were expecting in that situation.'

Now #4 sounds like an indictment of Dom, but it might be a symptom caused by 1-3. Meaning Dom is not doing more creative play calling because he doesn't trust the players to make the plays needed. He's putting the defense in the position where it is less likely to screw up badly, but it increases the offenses chance to be moderately successful. We talk about coaches loosing their players, but here maybe a case of the players loosing their coach.

Keys to fixing this:
1) Draft better
2) Sign some mid-level FA's to cover some holes and give better flexibility for the draft (the Packers don't have the cap to go big, and should not worry about comp picks, at least this year).
3) New DC. Even if it is the players more than Dom, a new DC may have different schemes that better fit the Packers players. Also this would lead to new unscouted looks that may give them a boost for the next season, as long as the DC is competent.

Excellent post.

Repped

[mission]

As far as this season goes -- when Brad Jones came back from his injury and Lattimore went to the bench.

It's a pretty clear cutoff that I just have no idea how none of the staff has done anything about.

[run pMc]

Well, if you're talking about their peak at the end of 2010, then the end began when Woodson broke his collar bone. I thought he was pretty much done after 2010 anyway, that just made it official. Losing Collins shortly into the next season quickly resulted in losing two huge playmakers in the defense, who have yet to be replaced. If Capers had any sense, he would have Neal, Perry and other backups man the OLB position and start moving Matthews all over the place in the "W" role. Still need to fill the Collins position; Burnett is not the answer.

+1

Woodbuck's chart provides some support of this. The 2009 and 2010 defenses were pretty good. Losing Collins and Woodson hurt, as did losing Cullen Jenkins on the DL. Despite this year's sack numbers, the pass rush has been inconsistent. Agree Burnett is not the answer.

Injuries have decimated the roster, especially on the offense. If the defense was giving up 21 ppg this year (same as last) they'd likely have 9 wins.

There will be changes on the defensive side of the ball this offseason. Hopefully those changes are improvements.

[red]

you can only use the injury excuse for so long imo

last year we talked about how that was a horrible year injury wise

the year before that we talked about how we were destroyed by injuries

even the super bowl year we were "bitten by the injury bug"

maybe at some point we need to start saying "shit happens" and we have problems adapting when it does

[Joemailman]

you can only use the injury excuse for so long imo

last year we talked about how that was a horrible year injury wise

the year before that we talked about how we were destroyed by injuries

even the super bowl year we were "bitten by the injury bug"

maybe at some point we need to start saying "shit happens" and we have problems adapting when it does

If you're talking just about the defense, I agree. The defense is fairly healthy and has still seen its performance decline in the 2nd half of the season. It would be hard to argue though that losing their starting QB, arguably top WR, and starting TE hasn't prevented the offense from playing up to their normal standards. It has. That's what makes the play of the defense so frustrating. When Rodgers went down and the team needed the defense to step up, their level of play declined.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The Packers have never recovered from Tim Harris bolting to San Fran

[woodbuck27]

The Packers have never recovered from Tim Harris bolting to San Fran

Holy Cow...who would ever claim your not the sharpest knife in the rack !?

I've been looking back also for something anywhere significant that was a catalyst for future Green Bay Packer teams and bad to mediocre defenses.

Your going with The departure of 4th Round draft pick LB Tim Harris Green Bay Packers 1986-90 >>> San Francisco.

I'm looking for something significant that happened after the 2004 Season.

Something that happened in 'the off season' ... 2004 - 2005 seasons....on into the 2005 season.

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

you can only use the injury excuse for so long imo

last year we talked about how that was a horrible year injury wise

the year before that we talked about how we were destroyed by injuries

even the super bowl year we were "bitten by the injury bug"

maybe at some point we need to start saying "shit happens" and we have problems adapting when it does

Maybe the Packer Scouting team might place some emphasis on draft candidates/prospects that have something called grit or toughness inside of them. We used to call these fellas 'Real Men'.

That GM and Scouting team might come up with a measurement chart called something like.... The Whuss Factor Chart.

Doesn't sensibility point to drafting a MAN who would be a proper fit for a Pro level 'football team'.

Ohh scrap that idea. Ted Thompson 'always drafts'..... BPA.

Well ..... I'll keep trying.

[ThunderDan]

I'm looking for something significant that happened after the 2004 Season.

Something that happened in 'the off season' ... 2004 - 2005 seasons....on into the 2005 season.

PACKERS !

BF said he might retire and didn't show up at training camp for the first time?