FOR THOSE WHO HATE CAPERS.....

[bobblehead]

I agree with Wists point for 2 reasons. It simply makes sense that on 2nd and 3, first and goal at the 1 you need 3 fatties up front. Second, early in the season we ran a lot more 3 man fronts and we were much better on D overall. We don't get to the QB with 4 LB's, so that can't be the good argument for pulling a fatty for a CB when you go nickel.

If we run 2-4 all day vs. SF, they will eat our lunch. We need the fatties up front, collapsing the pocket on kapernick, 1 spy at LB, and flood the secondary.

[pbmax]

More teams may be running a 2-4 in nickel situations, and to be sure it is more of a 4-2 with the outside rushers just being LB's, but you simply can't run that as your base defense - which is what Capers does more often than not. I didn't watch the whole game, but the majority of what I did watch, Capers was in a 2-4 regardless of down and distance - and to only have 2 DL on the field with 1st and goal from the 1?? There's no excuse for that.

You are right, he is not going to nickel based on down and distance, he is doing it to match personnel. Like I said somewhere, he would rather leak yardage in a run than have a longer pass blow up. I am not sure at all why he is in it at the goal line though.

[denverYooper]

I agree with Wists point for 2 reasons. It simply makes sense that on 2nd and 3, first and goal at the 1 you need 3 fatties up front. Second, early in the season we ran a lot more 3 man fronts and we were much better on D overall. We don't get to the QB with 4 LB's, so that can't be the good argument for pulling a fatty for a CB when you go nickel.

If we run 2-4 all day vs. SF, they will eat our lunch. We need the fatties up front, collapsing the pocket on kapernick, 1 spy at LB, and flood the secondary.

They used Jones a lot as a spy this year on QBs who could possibly run.

[woodbuck27]

I agree with Wists point for 2 reasons. It simply makes sense that on 2nd and 3, first and goal at the 1 you need 3 fatties up front. Second, early in the season we ran a lot more 3 man fronts and we were much better on D overall. We don't get to the QB with 4 LB's, so that can't be the good argument for pulling a fatty for a CB when you go nickel.

If we run 2-4 all day vs. SF, they will eat our lunch. We need the fatties up front, collapsing the pocket on kapernick, 1 spy at LB, and flood the secondary.

That 49ers OL:

Carry dy no mite !

Failing that stink bombs may be effective.

PACKERS !

[Smeefers]

I wouldn't know how many more records our defense would need to give up (Kaepernick, Warner, the 2011 defense, etc.) before it would be justified to let Capers go.

It's one thing to be average, or even below average. Quite another to give up *records* at the most inopportune times.

I'm a fence sitter with Dom Capers, and I think this is the best argument I've heard for getting rid of him. There's a lot of teams who have stinky defenses and they have players who get hurt - but how many of them give up records? Multiple times? Yikes.

[Smeefers]

And there are very few true bump and run corners left.

Seattle has a beautiful pair of them. I'm not saying that's what we need, but I don't think they've disappeared. Bump and run Corners tended to be stockier and slower and the giant receivers would have a field day with them. With refs calling pass interference so much more often now, the hands on approach of a bump and run corner has severely diminished in its returns. T Will used to play a pretty good bump and run - one of the reasons he got paid - but now the refs are all over him and his flags have gone way up. He's talented enough to make the adjustments, but he's not playing at the top of his game. Remember, he was trained by Harris and Woodson, both excellent bump and run corners. The reason seattle's duo is so dominant is because they're athletic enough and tall enough to seperate from the reciever after the initial 5 yards. Tramon simply doesn't have the catch up speed.

[Smeefers]

I wonder if they do tailor what they try and do based on the strength and availability of what they have on the roster, or does he try and do the same things no matter who he has available.

Where is Datone Jones? I didn't expect highlight reel stuff every week, but did expect him to show out a bit more than he did this year. Did Green Bay not know how to use him? Was he ineffective with the chances he had? He looked like a very sudden player at UCLA, and they talked about him play 5 tech (I had visions of Cullen Jenkins), but somehow he seemed invisible. Did he to you guys? Perhaps now that they are starving for creating pressure, they will turn him loose. I just expected some kind of visual proof of why he was drafted in the first round.

Datone Jones and Nick Perry are both outside 4-3 DL rushers. Just like Raji is a 4-3 interior guy. That may be the reason for they're lack of play making ability. It walks like a duck and talks like a duck, but they're trying to turn them into ... err... non ducks? I don't know. Lost it.

[denverYooper]

I think Seattle's CBs take "bump and run" to a whole new level, if you get my drift.

[pbmax]

Datone Jones and Nick Perry are both outside 4-3 DL rushers. Just like Raji is a 4-3 interior guy. That may be the reason for they're lack of play making ability. It walks like a duck and talks like a duck, but they're trying to turn them into ... err... non ducks? I don't know. Lost it.

Jones might fit in a 4-3 but its inside. He played in a 3-4 under Mora and played inside and out on the line.

[woodbuck27]

Datone Jones and Nick Perry are both outside 4-3 DL rushers. Just like Raji is a 4-3 interior guy. That may be the reason for they're lack of play making ability. It walks like a duck and talks like a duck, but they're trying to turn them into ... err... non ducks? I don't know. Lost it.

!!!!

Your right on there.

So something must give like ...... yesterday !

When will they clue in !??

[pbmax]

Seattle has a beautiful pair of them. I'm not saying that's what we need, but I don't think they've disappeared. Bump and run Corners tended to be stockier and slower and the giant receivers would have a field day with them. With refs calling pass interference so much more often now, the hands on approach of a bump and run corner has severely diminished in its returns. T Will used to play a pretty good bump and run - one of the reasons he got paid - but now the refs are all over him and his flags have gone way up. He's talented enough to make the adjustments, but he's not playing at the top of his game. Remember, he was trained by Harris and Woodson, both excellent bump and run corners. The reason seattle's duo is so dominant is because they're athletic enough and tall enough to seperate from the reciever after the initial 5 yards. Tramon simply doesn't have the catch up speed.

Pete's CBs are bigger, but historically, bump and run was a fast CBs game. Disrupt the takeoff and then shadow. Dixon and Minnifield, Lester Hayes and Mike Haynes were guys perhaps without the top gear of a wideout but they were quick and angle.

Bigger bump and run CBs are just trying to delay the route long enough for the pass rush to extinguish the throw.

[Fritz]

I think the Packers' defensive talent might be more suited to a 4-3. I would imagine Matthews would be able to become an OLB in a 4-3; you could still rush him a lot. You've got Datone Jones and Raji inside, Josh Boyd in there, too. Mike Neal could play end, as could Perry. Let Raji use his quickness to get up the field, turn this defense loose a little bit.

[gbgary]

Seattle has a beautiful pair of them.

that's what I was gonna say...those fuckers in sea play that way. our guys might be able to too but we'll never know. that initial jam gets the pass rush a tick closer to the qb too.

[pbmax]

Possible source of some of the problem on D; players to fit scheme. Its not a great explanation, because Thompson has played in a 3-4. But between this and injuries might be on target. Smart Football and Doug Farrar are discussing the comparisons of Pete Carroll's D plus John Schneider to Jimmy Johnson/Wannestadt in Dallas.

(discussing SeattleD)Smart Football @smartfootball 55m
@SI_DougFarrar Great points. And they know what they want and what they want to do, so they pick guys that fit. Big rangy DBs, etc

SI_DougFarrar @SI_DougFarrar 51m
@smartfootball Going back to Jimmy Johnson's tenures with Dallas and Miami -- I think his exp. in college was the difference in big D.

Smart Football @smartfootball 49m
@SI_DougFarrar I agree, plus commitment to their system. Wanndstadt and others tell stories how there was pressure to scrap Miami 4-3 Over

Smart Football @smartfootball 49m
@SI_DougFarrar which is what they had been drafting to also. Then suddenly was most popular defense in football

SI_DougFarrar @SI_DougFarrar 48m
@smartfootball This all sounds so simple, right? But the straight line from front office to coaches to players ... boy, is it rare.

Smart Football @smartfootball 47m
@SI_DougFarrar Right, plus having to relate to a totally different kind of player.

[Smeefers]

Pete's CBs are bigger, but historically, bump and run was a fast CBs game. Disrupt the takeoff and then shadow. Dixon and Minnifield, Lester Hayes and Mike Haynes were guys perhaps without the top gear of a wideout but they were quick and angle.

Bigger bump and run CBs are just trying to delay the route long enough for the pass rush to extinguish the throw.

Huh. I always thought that typical zone guys were smaller, faster backs who could cover a lot of ground in a blink like deangelo hall and that the bump and run guys were more physical. I shall bow to your superior name list and your wealth of knowledge.