FOR THOSE WHO HATE CAPERS.....

[Joemailman]

Well, this kind of sucks, you know why? The "fire em" crowd is always going to be right... eventually.

I guess what gets me is that there's a lot of "can his ass" without any idea what to do after that. It smacks me like the Jay Cutler thing in Chicago. He's serviceable, but who's better on the market? No one.

Now, there's a hand full of HC's that might be better than MM, but you're wandering around in the Bill Cower, Tony Dungy area. Unless you can coax them out of a very comfortable retirement, I don't think there's anyone on the market who's got any better of a shot of taking our team all the way. Especially when you consider that if all things are equal, stability trumps and trumps high.

As for Dom Capers and Slocum, there really isn't that much of a ground swell to get rid of em. If there is, I think TT and MM are completely immune to the talk. Would you really want your GM and Head Coach to be influenced by a majority of the fans? My only hope is that the Pack can attract a coach like Wade Phillips (Texans) or Ray Horton (Browns). Without someone clearly better waiting in the shadows, I don't think Dom is going anywhere.

Looks like Wade Phillips and the rest of the assistants are out in Houston. Romeo Crennel to be the new DC. Phillips and TT are good friends...

[Pugger]

the sherman debate was almost exactly the same as the mccarthy debate

you mention firing sherman and people would flip out bringing up winning %, and blaming the players and injuries and other coaches and everything under the sun

those were the ones known as the kool aide drinkers. they are some of the same people that say "why would you fire capers? we're winning with him"

there were a lot of people that thought it was just a horrible idea to fire sherman

Sherman wasn't a bad coach but he was lousy GM.

[Pugger]

Well, this kind of sucks, you know why? The "fire em" crowd is always going to be right... eventually.

I guess what gets me is that there's a lot of "can his ass" without any idea what to do after that. It smacks me like the Jay Cutler thing in Chicago. He's serviceable, but who's better on the market? No one.

Now, there's a hand full of HC's that might be better than MM, but you're wandering around in the Bill Cower, Tony Dungy area. Unless you can coax them out of a very comfortable retirement, I don't think there's anyone on the market who's got any better of a shot of taking our team all the way. Especially when you consider that if all things are equal, stability trumps and trumps high.

As for Dom Capers and Slocum, there really isn't that much of a ground swell to get rid of em. If there is, I think TT and MM are completely immune to the talk. Would you really want your GM and Head Coach to be influenced by a majority of the fans? My only hope is that the Pack can attract a coach like Wade Phillips (Texans) or Ray Horton (Browns). Without someone clearly better waiting in the shadows, I don't think Dom is going anywhere.

What's that saying? If you listen to the fans you'll eventually be one of them? I don't think Capers system sucks but we just don't have the horses to run it - especially in the middle and the back end/secondary. The D wasn't all that terrible earlier this season. What is the reason it collapsed? Injuries? Bad offensive play after AR got hurt? Both?

[denverYooper]

Looks like Wade Phillips and the rest of the assistants are out in Houston. Romeo Crennel to be the new DC. Phillips and TT are good friends...

I don't know if Wade would be an upgrade over Capers, it seems like his defenses are prone to getting picked apart by able QBs. I'm still holding out hope for Horton (who is interviewing with the Vikes this week).

Singletary might also be available. For his flaws at HC, I still believe he is the reason that SF became a linebacker school. Green Bay could use some of that.

[red]

Sherman wasn't a bad coach but he was lousy GM.

see, people still think sherman was a good coach

after GB no one wanted him as a head coach so he became the OC of the texans, who were mediocre at best

he then went to the college ranks and became the head coach of texas a&m. he signed a big 7 year deal. he was canned

now he's the OC of the miami dolphins because no one wants him as a head coach at any level. and he's failed so badly there that his own players want him fired

so

is/was he really a good head coach. or did we just think he was because he was our coach and the packers would only hire the best and brightest?

[Pugger]

see, people still think sherman was a good coach

after GB no one wanted him as a head coach so he became the OC of the texans, who were mediocre at best

he then went to the college ranks and became the head coach of texas a&m. he signed a big 7 year deal. he lasted for two lossing seasons before he was canned

now he's the OC of the miami dolphins because no one wants him as a head coach at any level. and he's failed so badly there that his own players want him fired

so

is/was he really a good head coach. or did we just think he was because he was our coach and the packers would only hire the best and brightest?

You are right, he prob is a better position/coordinator coach than HC. But would he have had better success in GB if his GM was better?

[red]

You are right, he prob is a better position/coordinator coach than HC. But would he have had better success in GB if his GM was better?

IMO, no

[Bretsky]

Well, this kind of sucks, you know why? The "fire em" crowd is always going to be right... eventually.

I guess what gets me is that there's a lot of "can his ass" without any idea what to do after that. It smacks me like the Jay Cutler thing in Chicago. He's serviceable, but who's better on the market? No one.

Now, there's a hand full of HC's that might be better than MM, but you're wandering around in the Bill Cower, Tony Dungy area. Unless you can coax them out of a very comfortable retirement, I don't think there's anyone on the market who's got any better of a shot of taking our team all the way. Especially when you consider that if all things are equal, stability trumps and trumps high.

As for Dom Capers and Slocum, there really isn't that much of a ground swell to get rid of em. If there is, I think TT and MM are completely immune to the talk. Would you really want your GM and Head Coach to be influenced by a majority of the fans? My only hope is that the Pack can attract a coach like Wade Phillips (Texans) or Ray Horton (Browns). Without someone clearly better waiting in the shadows, I don't think Dom is going anywhere.

I get your points on DOM
but
I've got a dog turd in the back yard I'd hire over the other guy

FIRE SLOCUM !

[Bretsky]

What's that saying? If you listen to the fans you'll eventually be one of them? I don't think Capers system sucks but we just don't have the horses to run it - especially in the middle and the back end/secondary. The D wasn't all that terrible earlier this season. What is the reason it collapsed? Injuries? Bad offensive play after AR got hurt? Both?

are you saying TT let us down then ? I don't buy that the defense was every above average and it's hard to argue we have the personnell to be above average. "wasn't that terrible".....that doesn't sound remotely good to me. It has been bad the last couple years. Do you see it turning around ? If not it's time to start throwing darts

[Bretsky]

I don't know if Wade would be an upgrade over Capers, it seems like his defenses are prone to getting picked apart by able QBs. I'm still holding out hope for Horton (who is interviewing with the Vikes this week).

Singletary might also be available. For his flaws at HC, I still believe he is the reason that SF became a linebacker school. Green Bay could use some of that.

Horton is the Captain Obvious Choice that EVERYBODY in here wants I think. Odds are he'll be gone

[Bretsky]

You are right, he prob is a better position/coordinator coach than HC. But would he have had better success in GB if his GM was better?

I'd say yes. His drafts were terrible. He'd have at least a shot to succeed with more talent. I didn't hate Sherman the coach but it was time to move on. TT and Sherman were not going to exist well and a GM wants to bring in his own guy.

[Rodgers12]

Seriously, I don't think MM gets it... he won't fire Capers, hasn't even crossed his mind.

It's not as easy to fire a coordinator as say, a position coach like Slocum (well, technically, Slocum is a coordinator). Folks think fire Capers and be done with it. But firing Capers usually means most, if not all, of the defensive assistants are also fired.

[Joemailman]

It's not as easy to fire a coordinator as say, a position coach like Slocum (well, technically, Slocum is a coordinator). Folks think fire Capers and be done with it. But firing Capers usually means most, if not all, of the defensive assistants are also fired.

Given the fact that young and (I believe) talented players like House, McMillian and Burnett don't seem to have progressed, I sometimes wonder if the position coaches are as much of the problem as Capers.

[red]

Given the fact that young and (I believe) talented players like House, McMillian and Burnett don't seem to have progressed, I sometimes wonder if the position coaches are as much of the problem as Capers.

right there with you joe

[Rodgers12]

Given the fact that young and (I believe) talented players like House, McMillian and Burnett don't seem to have progressed, I sometimes wonder if the position coaches are as much of the problem as Capers.

You could be right.

I still think House, McMillian and Burnett, et al. are average at best. That's on Mr. Polar Bear.

Under Capers, Collins, inconsistent in past years, did blossomed into an All-Pro. Undrafted FAs like T-Will and Shields, while not shutdown corners, developed into solid contributors. Bishop progressed the short time he was here. The Claymaker became The Claymaker.

I feel the urge to blame Ted Thompson.