Robert McGinn end of season breakdown

[call_me_ishmael]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-getting-left-behind-by-nfl-elite-b99180633z1-239781131.html

[packrulz]

Kind of dramatic if you ask me, I think Bob is just trying to sell more newspapers. He does have a couple good points though. The defense didn't step up after ARod got hurt, sloppy tackling, inability to stop the run, too few turnovers. The back up QB situation was a mess. M3 wasted all that time on Harrell, so we really went into the season with no back up QB. I do think he has something in Tolzien though. All the injuries year after year is a concern, even down to hamstring pulls, either the players aren't getting proper conditioning or diet or practicing hard enough, they're too soft. TT needs to improve the middle of the D, Jennings was a flop, Raji is regressing, and Hawk will never get any better. Still, I don't think firing anyone is going to help, and I don't feel any of the free agents would have made a huge difference either.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Sorta dramatic, but its an article sorely needed in Packerland, where I believe too many people are drinking the kool-aid concerning the competitiveness of Capers, MM, Slocum, and many of the players. If no personnel changes are forthcoming, then all have to improve to keep up with the NFL elite.

[bobblehead]

I believe about 2 months ago Bob wrote an article saying something like "MM and TT won't say it, but this was their most talented team yet. Injuries ruined what was to be their most successful season." Now they are dogshit, the league has passed them by, and they better change their ways.

I like Bob, generally speaking. He has a lot of knowledge about the game, and some good sources. I think he gets too much of his ideas for articles from over reacting fans though.

[bobblehead]

I will say one thing. Our model for backup QB has to change with the new CBA. In the past MM was able to use the QB school in the offseason to develop a backup. Those days are over with the limited time/things you can do in the offseason under the new CBA.

[denverYooper]

I believe about 2 months ago Bob wrote an article saying something like "MM and TT won't say it, but this was their most talented team yet. Injuries ruined what was to be their most successful season." Now they are dogshit, the league has passed them by, and they better change their ways.

I like Bob, generally speaking. He has a lot of knowledge about the game, and some good sources. I think he gets too much of his ideas for articles from over reacting fans though.

This.

These days, they call that using 'advanced metrics' to generate an article that will get hits.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Look, the ball bounces a different way or sticks in Hyde's fingers and the Pack would still be in it. That said, I think it's clear from watching the rest of the playoff teams that most of them are better than we are, especially if Rodgers is taken out of the equation. We just don't have the highest caliber players on defense. The Packers' secondary was touted as one of the deepest and best components of the team, but it proved leaky and fragile all season.

In order to make this team better in 2014 we don't need to overhaul it, just be smart and think out of the box. TT, Stubby and Capers have to adjust to the times and the conditions. If there is a glaring hole that needs filling with a FA, TT has got to pull the trigger. It's not like the FA/trade market is foreign to Green Bay (Favre, Sean Jones, Eugene Robinson, Pickett, Woodson and of course Reggie, to name a few). We aren't the same team without them.

By the same token, Capers has got to somehow simplify his defense so it works when we need to play young guys due to injuries or whatnot. He's got to realistically examine his system and his personnel and make real adjustments. "Keep it simple stupid" might be a good mantra for next year.

Lastly, Stubby has to adjust. I think he has to finally give up his play-calling duties and concentrate on keeping his head in the game as far as strategy and game conditions go. Why, for instance, does it suddenly dawn on him at halftime to run the ball more in the second half (Dallas game and a few others). He's calling the plays, for crying out loud. Why do you need the players to lobby you to go for it on 4th and one? When it's obvious a field goal isn't enough to win and you're on the SF five yard line with 5 minutes left, why do you kick a field goal? Sometimes Stubby can't see the forest for the trees.

[bobblehead]

Look, the ball bounces a different way or sticks in Hyde's fingers and the Pack would still be in it. That said, I think it's clear from watching the rest of the playoff teams that most of them are better than we are, especially if Rodgers is taken out of the equation. We just don't have the highest caliber players on defense. The Packers' secondary was touted as one of the deepest and best components of the team, but it proved leaky and fragile all season.

I think we are better than ANY of them if you take away their starting QB as well, so that is a worthless point to make. And if SF runs the table to the SB and we were <> that close to winning the game twice, do you still believe the other teams are better?

[Maxie the Taxi]

I think we are better than ANY of them if you take away their starting QB as well, so that is a worthless point to make. And if SF runs the table to the SB and we were <> that close to winning the game twice, do you still believe the other teams are better?

Take away the starting QB's and I think most of them are still marginally better than us. They have better players on defense generally and better linemen and linebackers. We can hold our own at the skill positions on offense, but I'd trade our defense (coach included) for any of the top teams in the NFL that are still in the playoffs.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I think the article was a little dramatic, but some valid points were made. As Maxi said, TT might need to change his approach if he wants to win another championship. I think his approach of accumulating draft picks and watching veterans walk is a great way to build a team from the ground up like he did from 05 to 08. What worries me about TT is he missed a great opportunity after the 2010 season to add some solid free agent pickups that might have delivered another championship to green bay.

I agree with his method of not overpaying for aging vets, but why after a superbowl win in 2010 should we spend the majority of the 2011 season searching for a replacement for Cullen Jenkins instead of just keeping him? We were stacked that year. I'm somewhat concerned that his idea of building a team stays the same even once the team is stacked and basically "built" to win. Sometimes its necessary to "go all in" when you build the roster up for all those years and had so many great players in the prime of there careers.

What we need now is to have consecutive drafts were he hits on at least a few pro bowlers or we stand to waste Rodgers and Matthews best years. I think you might see a different TT this offseason (at least I'm hoping we do). He needs to draft better players (have hated the last three first round picks) and use all avenues going forward to build the team back up to the best of the best. He has building blocks that should all be solid for at least 4 more seasons in Rodgers, Matthews, Nelson, Cobb, Lacey, hopefully Shields, Hayward*, Daniels, and Sitton. Bulaga, Bahk, and Hyde also probably figure to join that group. And this team still might have players in Worthy, Datone Jones, Boyd, and Tretter. With that said the safeties are trash (all of them), Tramon is in a contract year, Hawk is average, Brad Jones sucks, Perry should be playing DE, Neal and Raji are probably leaving, EDS is average, Finely looks like he's done, and depth at Wr might also become a problem. To try to address all these issues solely through the draft might not be fast enough to take full advantage of the remaining prime years of our best players esp. with heavy weights san fran and settle looking as strong as ever (I also predict the Rams will be the best team in the nfc two years from now).

[woodbuck27]

The Top Four defenses in the NFL are all in the NFC:

#1 Seattle 14.4 P/G

#2 Carolina 15.1 P/G

#3 San Fran 17.0 P/G

#4 New Orleans 19.0 P/G

THE GREEN BAY PACKERS #24 and allowing 26.8 P/G

Opponent TOTAL Yards Per Game:

Green Bay: 25th @ 372.3 Y/G Vs Seattle 1st @ 273.6 Y/G; Carolina 2nd @ 301.3; San Fran. 5th @ 316.9 Y/G ; New Orleans 4th @ 305.7 Y/G

Opponent PASSING Yards per game:

Green Bay: 24th @ 247.3 Y/G Vs Seattle #1 @ 170 Y/G; Carolina #6 @ 214.3 Y/G; SAN FRAN. 7th @ 221 Y/G; NEW ORLEANS 2nd @ 194.2 Y/G

Opponent RUSHING Yards per Game:

Green Bay: 25th @125 Y/G Vs Seattle 7th @ 101.8 Y/G; Carolina 2nd @ 86.9 Y/G; San Fran 4th @ 95.9 Y/G and NEW ORLEANS 19th @ 111.6 Y/G

There's a long ways to go on 'D' to seriously compete with the best NFC teams DEFENSE's.

GO PACK GO !

[Maxie the Taxi]

I think the article was a little dramatic, but some valid points were made. As Maxi said, TT might need to change his approach if he wants to win another championship. I think his approach of accumulating draft picks and watching veterans walk is a great way to build a team from the ground up like he did from 05 to 08. What worries me about TT is he missed a great opportunity after the 2010 season to add some solid free agent pickups that might have delivered another championship to green bay.

I agree with his method of not overpaying for aging vets, but why after a superbowl win in 2010 should we spend the majority of the 2011 season searching for a replacement for Cullen Jenkins instead of just keeping him? We were stacked that year. I'm somewhat concerned that his idea of building a team stays the same even once the team is stacked and basically "built" to win. Sometimes its necessary to "go all in" when you build the roster up for all those years and had so many great players in the prime of there careers.

What we need now is to have consecutive drafts were he hits on at least a few pro bowlers or we stand to waste Rodgers and Matthews best years. I think you might see a different TT this offseason (at least I'm hoping we do). He needs to draft better players (have hated the last three first round picks) and use all avenues going forward to build the team back up to the best of the best. He has building blocks that should all be solid for at least 4 more seasons in Rodgers, Matthews, Nelson, Cobb, Lacey, hopefully Shields, Hayward*, Daniels, and Sitton. Bulaga, Bahk, and Hyde also probably figure to join that group. And this team still might have players in Worthy, Datone Jones, Boyd, and Tretter. With that said the safeties are trash (all of them), Tramon is in a contract year, Hawk is average, Brad Jones sucks, Perry should be playing DE, Neal and Raji are probably leaving, EDS is average, Finely looks like he's done, and depth at Wr might also become a problem. To try to address all these issues solely through the draft might not be fast enough to take full advantage of the remaining prime years of our best players esp. with heavy weights san fran and settle looking as strong as ever (I also predict the Rams will be the best team in the nfc two years from now).

+1
Jenkins was a good fit for the Packers, as was Greg Jennings, regardless of the bad blood now. The defense was better with Desmond Bishop in the middle too. I understand the reasons for letting these guys go, but we didn't really function well without them.

[red]

I think the article was a little dramatic, but some valid points were made. As Maxi said, TT might need to change his approach if he wants to win another championship. I think his approach of accumulating draft picks and watching veterans walk is a great way to build a team from the ground up like he did from 05 to 08. What worries me about TT is he missed a great opportunity after the 2010 season to add some solid free agent pickups that might have delivered another championship to green bay.

I agree with his method of not overpaying for aging vets, but why after a superbowl win in 2010 should we spend the majority of the 2011 season searching for a replacement for Cullen Jenkins instead of just keeping him? We were stacked that year. I'm somewhat concerned that his idea of building a team stays the same even once the team is stacked and basically "built" to win. Sometimes its necessary to "go all in" when you build the roster up for all those years and had so many great players in the prime of there careers.

What we need now is to have consecutive drafts were he hits on at least a few pro bowlers or we stand to waste Rodgers and Matthews best years. I think you might see a different TT this offseason (at least I'm hoping we do). He needs to draft better players (have hated the last three first round picks) and use all avenues going forward to build the team back up to the best of the best. He has building blocks that should all be solid for at least 4 more seasons in Rodgers, Matthews, Nelson, Cobb, Lacey, hopefully Shields, Hayward*, Daniels, and Sitton. Bulaga, Bahk, and Hyde also probably figure to join that group. And this team still might have players in Worthy, Datone Jones, Boyd, and Tretter. With that said the safeties are trash (all of them), Tramon is in a contract year, Hawk is average, Brad Jones sucks, Perry should be playing DE, Neal and Raji are probably leaving, EDS is average, Finely looks like he's done, and depth at Wr might also become a problem. To try to address all these issues solely through the draft might not be fast enough to take full advantage of the remaining prime years of our best players esp. with heavy weights san fran and settle looking as strong as ever (I also predict the Rams will be the best team in the nfc two years from now).

the problem with needing 2 more big drafts is that its going to take those new rookies a few years to get up to speed.

i think it was in another thread where patler mentioned that it took nick collins 4 years before it "clicked" for him

we can't wait 4 years for a safety

in 4 years this team will almost be completely different just because of the turnover this team has

by my count, we have 6 more years, maybe 7, before the rodgers window closes. guys we draft in the next two years, are guys that we are gonna hope are ready to play for rodgers one last big hurrah at the end of his career

on top of that, we can't just focus on defense anymore in the draft. this year we are in major need of a TE, next year, if not already this year, we will need WR's (jones is a FA this year, cobb and jordy are both free agents next year). we may still need to draft an OT.

we can't just draft anymore, we're never gonna get back ahead by just drafting and having 10-13 rookies on the roster every year imo

teddy needs to open his purse strings and get us some guys that already know how to play the game imo. quit relying on unproven kids

[Patler]

McGinn often panders to the prevailing attitude of Packer fans. After the 2010 SB win and all during 2011, all he did was write about how the Packers were set up to be the dominant team of the NFL for years to come because their plan brought a constant infusion of young talent, which allowed the team to be selective in who of the vets they kept, and by avoiding expensive FAs they eliminated cap-killing mistakes when an FA bombs, as is all too common. Three months ago, their plan and preparation was so solid that even if Rodgers were lost, they would go 11-5. While losing Rodgers would be tough, He wrote:

"Yet, no organization would be better equipped to handle it than Green Bay."

Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/topst...#ixzz2qCjmKtWl
Follow us: @JournalSentinel on Twitter

I still value his draft analysis articles, but those are based on the opinions of others that he does a very good job of gathering and sorting. His articles featuring his own analysis of the team itself are an entirely different thing.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

the problem with needing 2 more big drafts is that its going to take those new rookies a few years to get up to speed.

i think it was in another thread where patler mentioned that it took nick collins 4 years before it "clicked" for him

we can't wait 4 years for a safety

in 4 years this team will almost be completely different just because of the turnover this team has

by my count, we have 6 more years, maybe 7, before the rodgers window closes. guys we draft in the next two years, are guys that we are gonna hope are ready to play for rodgers one last big hurrah at the end of his career

on top of that, we can't just focus on defense anymore in the draft. this year we are in major need of a TE, next year, if not already this year, we will need WR's (jones is a FA this year, cobb and jordy are both free agents next year). we may still need to draft an OT.

we can't just draft anymore, we're never gonna get back ahead by just drafting and having 10-13 rookies on the roster every year imo

teddy needs to open his purse strings and get us some guys that already know how to play the game imo. quit relying on unproven kids

Well don't underestimate how fast an impact first and second year players can have on a team. Raji, Matthews, and Bulaga played big roles in winning the superbowl in 2010 and all were first and second year players. Bill Belichick is think was quoted as saying the way to build a solid team that wins superbowls in this era is by having a lot of good players making a lot less then they are worth. Only way to accomplish that is through the draft. So I think loading up in the draft is important and should continue to be a focus, but we haven't hit on enough impact players recently. Having better drafts and signing another Woodson or Pickett can make a world of difference.