MM's management style

[Patler]

So, he obviously determined that special teams were a problem. His solution:

- get rid of the special teams assistant coach
- reassign the part-time special teams assistant
- but keep the special teams coordinator.

Those moves alone are a questionable management approach to solving a problem. Keep the man in charge, but fire his workers? But then he hires a much more experienced coach as the new assistant?

I have not been a big fan of many of MM's hires. Many just don't stand out.

[red]

this is why i brought up during the season that if we really want to fix the big problems with the team, we're going to have to get rid of M3

he's just too damn loyal to his friend, and unfortunately, his friend is the biggest liability to this club

he sees that there are problems, he even sometimes seems to know what those problems are. but he rarely if ever fixes those problems

he says we need to get those problems fixed, but he never does, and i feel he can't

so the question becomes. do the good things M3 brings to the table out weight the many problems that arise from his presence and complete inability to fix said problems?

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

this is why i brought up during the season that if we really want to fix the big problems with the team, we're going to have to get rid of M3

he's just too damn loyal to his friend, and unfortunately, his friend is the biggest liability to this club

he sees that there are problems, he even sometimes seems to know what those problems are. but he rarely if ever fixes those problems

he says we need to get those problems fixed, but he never does, and i feel he can't

so the question becomes. do the good things M3 brings to the table out weight the many problems that arise from his presence and complete inability to fix said problems?

Yup. I have never been a big M3 fan, but have come to realize that we are stuck with him due to the Packers success over the last several years. Whether that success is due to his coaching, or the players, or a combination of the two, it does not matter cause the Packer org just sees the success and are saying let it ride. We will have to go thru another dry spell before any fundamental changes are made. Dammit...

[Fritz]

So, he obviously determined that special teams were a problem. His solution:

- get rid of the special teams assistant coach
- reassign the part-time special teams assistant
- but keep the special teams coordinator.

Those moves alone are a questionable management approach to solving a problem. Keep the man in charge, but fire his workers? But then he hires a much more experienced coach as the new assistant?

I have not been a big fan of many of MM's hires. Many just don't stand out.

It does seem like a bit of a passive/aggressive move. I'm not going to fire you, but...I'm going to hire, as your "assistant," a guy who's been a ST coach before, a veteran coach.

I think MM's tenure in G B is nearing its end, however - I see another two years of him here, with Ted, and then I think the whole bunch will be going, with TT retiring to become a scout and a new guy, maybe Eliot Wolf, taking over.

Then there can be a whole new crew.

So I'm going to pretend I like the way MM has handled the ST clusterfuck. Or just ignore it, except for when I call for Slocum's head.

[red]

so fritz, if he does stay 2 more years, he will have been the packers HC for 10 years

the second longest tenure in packer history only behind curly and his almost 30 years as a head coach.

after this next season he will have number all to himself, passing vince and bart, two packer legends though one wasn't a legend for his coaching

is he really that good? does he really deserve to reign that long in the most stories franchise in nfl history?

to me, he's peaked as a packer coach. i don't think he has what it takes to get us another super bowl, and he's just wasting the best years of our current HOF QB. and this last line can be applied to TT also

[Fritz]

I don't know, red. I don't like what I see as MM's increasingly belligerent attitude with the press. I know that doesn't mean he's not a good coach, but it speaks to me of burnout and ire.

But I believe, with no real evidence, that he and TT have a kind of exit strategy in mind, and I don't think it's more than two or maybe three years away.

[red]

I don't know, red. I don't like what I see as MM's increasingly belligerent attitude with the press. I know that doesn't mean he's not a good coach, but it speaks to me of burnout and ire.

But I believe, with no real evidence, that he and TT have a kind of exit strategy in mind, and I don't think it's more than two or maybe three years away.

i would rather that exit come sonner then that.

need to get a new coach in here and get him established so we can make a final run at the end of a-rods career. if they don't leave for 3 years and it takes the new coach a couple years to establish his team, then that doesn't leave us many years with a-rod. unless we manage to to what no other team in history has done and draft another top notch QB to follow favre and rodgers

as for TT, has the talent in green bay improved or declined since the super bowl? we've lost a lot of marquee players from that team, and we haven't replaced them with very much talent

[pbmax]

Actually, I think McCarthy in front of the press is more in control than ever before. I think there is a difference between belligerency and staying on message or refusing to engage a question on the reporters terms. You can call it poor manners, lack of good faith and a few other things, but its all part of the package of coaches in the modern media atmosphere. There were more outbursts and confrontations when he was younger and less sure of himself.

Zook does seem like a backdoor way to undermine Slocum. But Zook, unless he has been doing it as a HC in college (which does happen), has not spent a lot of time as a ST coach. Its a quintessential M3 hire as you can see why someone should be replaced but then the replacement doesn't support that line of thinking.

Zook has a huge background in Defense, so maybe he is here to help coverage teams. Morton worked with returners along with other possible assignments we simply didn't read about.

[pbmax]

i would rather that exit come sonner then that.

need to get a new coach in here and get him established so we can make a final run at the end of a-rods career. if they don't leave for 3 years and it takes the new coach a couple years to establish his team, then that doesn't leave us many years with a-rod. unless we manage to to what no other team in history has done and draft another top notch QB to follow favre and rodgers

as for TT, has the talent in green bay improved or declined since the super bowl? we've lost a lot of marquee players from that team, and we haven't replaced them with very much talent

A boatload of playoff appearances, two deep runs and a Super Bowl are worth 10 years. You can't compare any coach to Lombardi and see your way clear to a 10 year deal, not even Parcells would qualify.

Compared to Bart, McCarthy should be here until 2020.

[red]

could zook be here to teach our ST guys how to tackle?

[red]

A boatload of playoff appearances, two deep runs and a Super Bowl are worth 10 years. You can't compare any coach to Lombardi and see your way clear to a 10 year deal, not even Parcells would qualify.

Compared to Bart, McCarthy should be here until 2020.

i don't know if i completely buy the argument that we have a good HC because we're in the playoffs every year.

we play in one of the weakest divisions in the NFL. we win by default most years. we were handed the division this year thanks to the collapse of the bears and lions. most of those playoff appearances result in one and dones

being the best turd in the bowl still makes you shit

[pbmax]

McCarthy has answered a few questions about his coaching methods and assistants.

Its clear his offensive staff is valued around the League (Philbin, Clements, McAdoo and Van Pelt have all been offered jobs or significant interview opportunities). Jimmy Robinson was very well regarded and left only to join his buddy in Dallas. Bennett seems to be a hidden gem and Campen, long before this year, has been a rumored hot commodity. That one is partially baffling, though to his credit his run blocking charges did well this year, putting some of the onus back on his previous personnel.

Campen also has a few development accomplishments now, with Sitton at a Pro Bowl level, Lang not far behind and EDS being good enough. He also still seems to do well with rookies and young players who need to develop quickly and become ready to start (Old Wig, Barclay, Newhouse, GVR).

Defensively its a far more mixed bag and Greene leaving doesn't clear it up. Whitt is rumored very well regarded (and I think it was reported they turned down a request to interview him from Atlanta). Perry was long considered a DC in waiting though recent events have left him a mayor of a town with a river fire. Moss means something to M3 and Hawk did return to his previous personal high level of play (your mileage may vary on whether that is good enough) and he just was promoted back to OLB coach which means they trust him not to screw something up.

Trgo is an old war horse but his charges have been 2 for 3 in recent underperformance. Capers is still skilled at what he does but what he does might not fit the organization on top of him. If they were all canned after the playoff loss, they would all have jobs next year is my judgement. So there is NFL talent there. Why it is not working on a more regular basis is a more complex question than "he sucks as a coach".

[pbmax]

i don't know if i completely buy the argument that we have a good HC because we're in the playoffs every year.

we play in one of the weakest divisions in the NFL. we win by default most years. we were handed the division this year thanks to the collapse of the bears and lions. most of those playoff appearances result in one and dones

being the best turd in the bowl still makes you shit

That is true this year but one other year you had to beat your most hated rival to make it to the Super Bowl. The NFC North is not the AFC East.

And he has a couple of high seeds in addition to the two deep runs. So its not just winning the division at 9-7 every year.

[esoxx]

These special team moves are simply shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.

We still have Captain Smith, er, Slocum in the wheel house.

[mraynrand]

could zook be here to teach our ST guys how to tackle?

If you mean tackling a vending machine, then YES!