Why Can't the Pack Fit Shields, Et Al, Under the Cap?

[Fritz]

I'm coming at this with no real knowledge of the cap numbers, I confess. I'm one of the many fans who either doesn't want to or can't figure out exactly how all those players and numbers fit together under the salary cap.

Having copped to that, my understanding from reading Packer forums and even such highly-respected sources as the JSO was that the Packers weren't going to be able to afford Finley and Raji after the season, but could afford one or the other. In fact, I think we had a thread here in which people debated which player was the better to sign.

Now it looks like the Packers will not re-up either one.

So why is there an article about whether the Packers can or will sign Neal, after having developed him into a decent OLB with some upside left? And why couldn't the Packers now afford to sign EDS (if they want him), James Jones, and Andrew Quarless, among other names.

I mean, if the thinking was you could afford one of the two biggest-ticket items, and now you aren't going to pay either, why can't you sign Shields and everyone else you want?

Or is it that they're waiting to see what they work out with Shields before tossing contract offers at other guys?

Let me just say, if they don't ink Shields to a deal, if they lose him, I will be royally pissed.

And if James Jones doesn't want the moon, couldn't you sign him and still be positioned for Cobb and Nelson in the next couple years?

Where'd all that money go that the team no longer has to spend on Raji and or Finley?

[red]

because people are stupid

fritz, we have so much cap room right now that we could resign raji for his 8 million, finley for 7 or 8 million, and shields for 9 or 10 million

and probably still have enough to sign our rookies

with finley and raji out of the picture, i think we could resign all the other free agents if we wanted to. it just comes down to who the team wants to keep and is that player worth the money they need to pay him. like this year with morgan burnett, not worth the money.

i do find it troubling that there has been no talk at all about negotiations with shields. with FA just a month away, you think the team would be working overtime trying to get a new deal done ASAP. the lack of progress leads me to believe that the team is ready to let shields and all the other free agents walk, and that they are only willing to bring guys back if no one else wants them and they can get them for cheap (ala james jones a few years back)

[mraynrand]

Packers generally set a value for their FAs and stick with it. Say they have Shields at 9 mil max and someone offers 12, he will be gone. Maybe they got lucky not having Raji accept the 8 mil and maybe Raji will come back if someone isn't willing to overpay him for mediocrity, hoping they can repurpose him.

[bobblehead]

Am I crazy, or do none of us know who we will resign, or who TT thinks he can afford? When its all said and done, we might resign most of them. Personally, I think Raji played himself out of a decent contract, and Finley for many reasons isn't getting $5 mil a year.

[mraynrand]

Am I crazy, or do none of us know who we will resign, or who TT thinks he can afford? When its all said and done, we might resign most of them. Personally, I think Raji played himself out of a decent contract, and Finley for many reasons isn't getting $5 mil a year.

Ya, we're just guessing. Here's a wild guess. Raji gets piss poor offers and the Packers entice him back with a decent contract and a promise to let him get upfield more.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

With TT spending the money, who the hell knows... Well, its been fun, but 50 degrees here today, time to go do the Incline...

[red]

Am I crazy, or do none of us know who we will resign, or who TT thinks he can afford? When its all said and done, we might resign most of them. Personally, I think Raji played himself out of a decent contract, and Finley for many reasons isn't getting $5 mil a year.

i think anyone would be nuts to offer finley more then a one year "prove your healthy" deal for next to no money. i mean the guy was talking about retiring before he had the life altering injury

and if that's the case, then i see finley retiring and taking that 10 million dollar insurance policy and retiring

[red]

Ya, we're just guessing. Here's a wild guess. Raji gets piss poor offers and the Packers entice him back with a decent contract and a promise to let him get upfield more.

but in our system, him getting upfield is counter productive. his job and all or linemen, is to eat blockers and keep them the hell of our line backers

his fat ass can come back for cheap, but his job needs to be taking on 2 linemen on every single snap, and actually doing a good job of that for a change. no more of this getting pushed around by single blockers like we watched this season

[mraynrand]

but in our system, him getting upfield is counter productive. his job and all or linemen, is to eat blockers and keep them the hell of our line backers

his fat ass can come back for cheap, but his job needs to be taking on 2 linemen on every single snap, and actually doing a good job of that for a change. no more of this getting pushed around by single blockers like we watched this season

R, I think it depends on down and distance. Maybe the answer is to let Raji play more on run/pass (intermediate) downs and let him go upfield more often. If he can't two-gap for them, or if he can't beat a lineman once he's engaged, why keep having him try? Most likely he's gone, but if he comes back semi-cheap then they ought to use him where he can be his best.

[pbmax]

Here are some numbers and structure Patler posted earlier this season about the cap situation going forward.

Ya, Sportrac is pretty good with their numbers, and I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with your earlier post, as far as it goes, but the devil is always in the details.

They have GB with $9.746M cap space right now. That number will continue to go down. For example, it doesn't include Aiyewa's contract, which will drop it another $100k or so. There likely will be other signings before the year is out, so the amount rolled over is likely to be more like$9M or so.

Then, Sportrac's cap # for 2014 includes only 46 contracts. Even if you assume that the remaining 7 spots are filled with rookies at minimum salaries, it will cost $3M. But realistically, it will be more than that when you figure in the 2014 draft class. Datone Jones and Eddie Lacy alone were over $2.0M this year against the cap. So, realistically, those last 7 spots will cost $4-5M against the cap.

GB will have an effective cap # around $132M, assuming the base is $123 again.
Filling the roster will rookies will put them at around $110M. They have to keep a few million every year for contingencies, such as replacing players who go on IR. From a practical viewpoint, they have more like $20M, not $30M to play with, for signing FAs, either their own or others. This is without signing Shields, EDS. Raji, Pickett, James Jones, etc., and without releasing any big contracts.

If they do decide to release some vets, dead money amounts are:

T. Williams - $2M (leaving a potential cap saving of about $7.5M)
Brad Jones - $2M (possible cap saving $2.0M)
A.J. Hawk - $3.2M (possible cap saving $2.95M)

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Free agents this season and next season:

2014:
Chris Banjo (erfa)
Kahlil Bell
Evan Dietrich-Smith
Jermichael Finley
Matt Flynn
Johnny Jolly
James Jones
John Kuhn
Rob Francois
M.D. Jennings (rfa)
Jamari Lattimore
Mike Neal
Marshall Newhouse
Ryan Pickett
Andrew Quarless
B.J. Raji
Sam Shields
James Starks
Seneca Wallace
C.J. Wilson

2015:
Tramon Williams
Greg Van Roten
Scott Tolzien
Ryan Taylor
Sean Richardson (rfa)
Jordy Nelson
Davon House
DuJuan Harris
Randall Cobb
Jarrett Bush
Bryan Bulaga
Jarrett Boykin (rfa)
Don Barclay (rfa)

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Kind of makes you wonder what TT is doing? That's a lot of contracts to address.....I'm scared this is him addressing them lol.

[Fritz]

Free agents this season and next season:

2014:
Chris Banjo (erfa)
Kahlil Bell
Evan Dietrich-Smith
Jermichael Finley
Matt Flynn
Johnny Jolly
James Jones
John Kuhn
Rob Francois
M.D. Jennings (rfa)
Jamari Lattimore
Mike Neal
Marshall Newhouse
Ryan Pickett
Andrew Quarless
B.J. Raji
Sam Shields
James Starks
Seneca Wallace
C.J. Wilson

2015:
Tramon Williams
Greg Van Roten
Scott Tolzien
Ryan Taylor
Sean Richardson (rfa)
Jordy Nelson
Davon House
DuJuan Harris
Randall Cobb
Jarrett Bush
Bryan Bulaga
Jarrett Boykin (rfa)
Don Barclay (rfa)

If you go with Patler's numbers, that 20 mill for this year, it seems to me you could sign Shields, and have enough left over to offer some crumbs to Neal, Lattimore and Quarless and maybe vet min for Flynn and Francois.

Looking at both lists, maybe TT is addressing his free agents by not addressing most of them...that's a pretty uninspiring list up above, outside of Shields, Jones, Nelson, and Cobb - at least in terms of big difference-makers. I'm not saying the other ones suck; just saying that in terms of playmakers and studs, it's not a huge list.

[Bossman641]

Shields will be back. TT doesn't let young playmakers go.

[Fritz]

Shields will be back. TT doesn't let young playmakers go.

Now that I've gotten all edumacated, it seems to me Shields and some underlings are all TT will be able to afford.

Might be able to bring back Neal, and probably can afford EDS, Quarless, and that ilk.

But probably no James Jones. And that's too bad. Class dude.