BILL POLIAN

[Fritz]

He will, mraynrand. He will.

[pbmax]

The underrated part of the 49er gap is Rodgers and the offenses inability to solve the San Fran coverage for good plays. Rodgers waits forever back there for something to open, like the 2 deep safeties are a shield against any pass.

[mraynrand]

The underrated part of the 49er gap is Rodgers and the offenses inability to solve the San Fran coverage for good plays. Rodgers waits forever back there for something to open, like the 2 deep safeties are a shield against any pass.

Isn't that mostly on the Pack. From what I gather, the Packer's O looks to go vertical, and then intermediate, then short - that's the progression. With a lot of pressure, you sometimes don't have the time to get to the dump off guy. Seems like sometimes you have to look at that 2- deep stuff and take what they give you. That's where the run game, Cobb and Finley (or whomever they plug in there) have to excel. Niners counter that with simple three or four man pressure and great LBs cover up all that underneath stuff. More often, Rodgers has to throw the ball when his guys are covered and trust his accuracy.

[pbmax]

Isn't that mostly on the Pack. From what I gather, the Packer's O looks to go vertical, and then intermediate, then short - that's the progression. With a lot of pressure, you sometimes don't have the time to get to the dump off guy. Seems like sometimes you have to look at that 2- deep stuff and take what they give you. That's where the run game, Cobb and Finley (or whomever they plug in there) have to excel. Niners counter that with simple three or four man pressure and great LBs cover up all that underneath stuff. More often, Rodgers has to throw the ball when his guys are covered and trust his accuracy.

Its a mixture. Except for the first playoff game early, the 49er pressure usually does not look like the Seattle 1st half. Many times Rodgers is waiting back there and simply does not pull the trigger. Versus that D, you have to take a good shot when you get time.

Every QB has throw preferences and Rodgers seems hesitant to throw into the middle against 2 deep, despite one weakness of the coverage being the deep middle. Part of that was Finley's post-injury uselessness in the deep middle. I also remember one play that had Cobb (I think) and Nelson (certain) both stop routes in the holes in a zone. There was one defender short, so one passing lane had to be open. Rodgers bailed on both throws, made a feeble effort to scramble and was sacked.

Not every play works, but Rodgers seems flummoxed by that 2 deep unless he can beat it outside with Jones or Nelson. The answer might be the Harris we saw in the highlight video in the other thread. He was a threat as a check down guy, someone who could make his coverage miss and still get a first. But they have to do something.

For all of its problems, the Packer D has held up reasonably well to the 49ers who torched them the year before. The offense did them no favors late.

[mraynrand]

. The answer might be the Harris we saw in the highlight video in the other thread. He was a threat as a check down guy, someone who could make his coverage miss and still get a first. But they have to do something.

I think this is the answer (add in Cobb to) - plus running against tendency. Look for that 'dump off' play earlier or first in the progression and it it's there, take it. Either way though, the 49er and Sea Defenses are just good - individual level good - so they are just going to win a lot of match ups. Rodgers played his best ball when he trusted his accuracy and threw the ball even when guys were covered. Signature example is the throw to Jennings on the late third and ten in the final drive of the Superbowl.

Replacing Finley might help more than people think, because it seemed that Rodgers just lost confidence there and rarely threw the ball when Finley was blanketed, even though Fin can make some of those catches. perhaps the new target will inspire more confidence.

[Fritz]

The two-part answer seems to be to invest in a TE that will go deep middle and get after the ball, and to use the short game, be satisfied with the short gains to the backs, and keep from turning the ball over. You do that, control the clock, score when you get in the red zone, and eventually SF will have to show something other than two deep.

But they can wait to do that cuz their linebackers are so good.

[3irty1]

I don't think what you're talking about is a 49er specific problem, its a trend with the offense for a couple of years now. I think part of the problem is lacking a WR in the mold of a 4.40 speedster who can threaten the top of a defense. Jennings is gone and while Jordy has developed into a great all-around receiver I'm not sure he's still got that deceptive long speed because its been a few years since we've seen him catch one over his shoulder. The guys we have typically make their big plays after the catch which is awesome but isn't going to change the way a defense can play us. With the emergence of Lacy you'd think this type of WR would be that much more valuable.

The offense is starting to look like the 2010 Falcons. They can take long methodical drives and play ball control but a lot of things have to go right in order to win a shootout or prevent close games against much worse teams.

[pbmax]

I don't think what you're talking about is a 49er specific problem, its a trend with the offense for a couple of years now. I think part of the problem is lacking a WR in the mold of a 4.40 speedster who can threaten the top of a defense. Jennings is gone and while Jordy has developed into a great all-around receiver I'm not sure he's still got that deceptive long speed because its been a few years since we've seen him catch one over his shoulder. The guys we have typically make their big plays after the catch which is awesome but isn't going to change the way a defense can play us. With the emergence of Lacy you'd think this type of WR would be that much more valuable.

The offense is starting to look like the 2010 Falcons. They can take long methodical drives and play ball control but a lot of things have to go right in order to win a shootout or prevent close games against much worse teams.

I do believe Jennings helps here, though when he came back to the team in 2011 after his injury it didn't immediately solve the problem. Cobb helps, but he runs different routes well, he could develop more variety and provide more relief. But I am not sure it was Jennings speed that was the difference. He could escape man coverage and was willing to play in the middle of the field, those were two important factors. That and Rodgers trusted him.

Not saying I wouldn't enjoy a speedster taking the one of those safeties for a run, but I think ANY effective and trusted outlet in the middle of the field is vital.

[wist43]

I do believe Jennings helps here, though when he came back to the team in 2011 after his injury it didn't immediately solve the problem. Cobb helps, but he runs different routes well, he could develop more variety and provide more relief. But I am not sure it was Jennings speed that was the difference. He could escape man coverage and was willing to play in the middle of the field, those were two important factors. That and Rodgers trusted him.

Not saying I wouldn't enjoy a speedster taking the one of those safeties for a run, but I think ANY effective and trusted outlet in the middle of the field is vital.

Jennings strength was getting in and out of his breaks quickly - very quickly. He'd come off the line, be at top speed within a couple of steps, stop on a dime, take a step or two into his break, the ball would arrive on timing, and Jennings was already turned and putting a move on the DB.

I was skeptical of his pick before I saw him live, but I attended minicamp right after that draft and it took me seeing him run just a few routes to be able to tell that he was a hell of a receiver.

No doubt about it - we miss Jennings.

Now Finley will be gone too... we'll see how the offense responds. We still have Rodgers pulling the trigger, so we'll always have a punchers chance, but unless we shore up that mess of a defense, our chances of being a serious contender aren't good. We're a playoff team, but then again 11 other teams are as well... there's only 1 SB champ. We're not on that SB level.

[bobblehead]

Jennings strength was getting in and out of his breaks quickly - very quickly. He'd come off the line, be at top speed within a couple of steps, stop on a dime, take a step or two into his break, the ball would arrive on timing, and Jennings was already turned and putting a move on the DB.

I was skeptical of his pick before I saw him live, but I attended minicamp right after that draft and it took me seeing him run just a few routes to be able to tell that he was a hell of a receiver.

No doubt about it - we miss Jennings.

Now Finley will be gone too... we'll see how the offense responds. We still have Rodgers pulling the trigger, so we'll always have a punchers chance, but unless we shore up that mess of a defense, our chances of being a serious contender aren't good. We're a playoff team, but then again 11 other teams are as well... there's only 1 SB champ. We're not on that SB level.

So, for the sake of bookmarking a thread so I can bump it later, who are your "superbowl level" teams for next year....because I believe we are on the short list, while SF window has already closed.

[mraynrand]

So, for the sake of bookmarking a thread so I can bump it later, who are your "superbowl level" teams for next year....because I believe we are on the short list, while SF window has already closed.

How about Baltimore? Their running offense will beat helpless defenses unconscious.

[pbmax]

How about Baltimore? Their running offense will beat helpless defenses unconscious.

+1

I would rep this but have to find someone else to rep first.

[ThunderDan]

+1

I would rep this but have to find someone else to rep first.

You rang!

[run pMc]

I think having a combination of a TE who can threaten the middle and feeding Lacy the ball would help soften up a 2 deep. I agree having a speedster outside would help as well. The WRs on the roster have to rely on YAC and downfield blocking, and a good tackling/physical defense like SF or SEA have can limit those gains. I think Cobb is too small to play X; Jordy and Boykin can but neither is a burner. I'm thinking this is the year they draft a WR in R2 or 3.