Packers Re-Sign Mike Neal

[wist43]

Wist, you are sounding like a democrat defending obama. It doesn't matter the results, those are simply fluky things that vary. Our ideas are correct, and its a coincidence when the economy tanks and stays recessed like it did when Roosevelt did the exact same things Obama is doing.

TT didn't win a superbowl by "fluke". He built that team....you didn't build that team.

What, lol...

The stars aligned, and we stole one.

If there were a team like SF or Seattle in the playoffs that year - we would have been knocked out. As it was, Philly and Atlanta were both finesse teams, and Chicago is Chicago, minus Cutler for most of the game. Still I think we had Chicago's number regardless. Then in the SB, we met a fading Steelers team who has fallen off completely since that loss.

In other words, we played to the best of our ability; we still had good defensive players onboard that were producing, i.e. Jenkins, Bishop, and Woodson; and we played a slate of teams that set up well of us, i.e. finesse teams that couldn't push us around with ease - like SF can.

Since the SB win, TT hasn't signed a single FA; he sent Jenkins, Bishop and Woodson packing, as well as Jennings from the offense - and hasn't replaced them; and he's sat back and watched while Capers plays one defense (the 2-4), and nothing else.

Add to that the fact that he is going to do nothing to bring in immediate help this year, and you're staring another wasted season straight in the eye. Rodgers will be another year older - and we'll rinse and repeat again next year. The best we can hope for is that some guys from the past couple of drafts step up - Hyde, Jones, Mulumba - and that TT and MM start to bark at Capers enough to get his head out of his ass.

If those players don't develop, we stand no chance whatsoever of advancing very far in the playoffs - and we're looking at another 2-3 years lost, b/c it will take that long for the next wave of draft picks to develop - rinse, repeat.

The bottom line is - TT doesn't mind having holes in the roster. Having holes at a given position will never compel him to break with his philosophy and sign a FA. He will live with the holes, and try to fill them with street FA's - then wait til the next draft - rinse, repeat.

[mraynrand]

What, lol...

The stars aligned, and we stole one.

If there were a team like SF or Seattle in the playoffs that year - we would have been knocked out.

except for the fact that we beat SF in the regular season. Don't EVER let facts get in the way of your mania!

[Carolina_Packer]

What, lol...

The stars aligned, and we stole one.

If there were a team like SF or Seattle in the playoffs that year - we would have been knocked out. As it was, Philly and Atlanta were both finesse teams, and Chicago is Chicago, minus Cutler for most of the game. Still I think we had Chicago's number regardless. Then in the SB, we met a fading Steelers team who has fallen off completely since that loss.

In other words, we played to the best of our ability; we still had good defensive players onboard that were producing, i.e. Jenkins, Bishop, and Woodson; and we played a slate of teams that set up well of us, i.e. finesse teams that couldn't push us around with ease - like SF can.

Since the SB win, TT hasn't signed a single FA; he sent Jenkins, Bishop and Woodson packing, as well as Jennings from the offense - and hasn't replaced them; and he's sat back and watched while Capers plays one defense (the 2-4), and nothing else.

Add to that the fact that he is going to do nothing to bring in immediate help this year, and you're staring another wasted season straight in the eye. Rodgers will be another year older - and we'll rinse and repeat again next year. The best we can hope for is that some guys from the past couple of drafts step up - Hyde, Jones, Mulumba - and that TT and MM start to bark at Capers enough to get his head out of his ass.

If those players don't develop, we stand no chance whatsoever of advancing very far in the playoffs - and we're looking at another 2-3 years lost, b/c it will take that long for the next wave of draft picks to develop - rinse, repeat.

The bottom line is - TT doesn't mind having holes in the roster. Having holes at a given position will never compel him to break with his philosophy and sign a FA. He will live with the holes, and try to fill them with street FA's - then wait til the next draft - rinse, repeat.

If TT has done such a mediocre to bad job on the defense, then how can you lay so much blame on Capers? He won with arguably better players at other stops he's had? I think I get it now...good players=good coach...mediocre to bad players=bad coach.

[smuggler]

Actually, Atlanta was a roadgrading power football team. WE were the finesse team that turned them on their side.

[mraynrand]

The bottom line is - TT doesn't mind having holes in the roster.

No, not at all! In fact, he enjoys them! That's why he drafts injury prone players. It's a fantastically elaborate and intricate scheme to prevent blame from being laid on his shoulders. He drafts injury prone guys, they get hurt and he says "doggone it, we woulda won it all AGAIN, if not for those crazy injuries!"

Crazy and crafty like a Fox, that TT!

[Carolina_Packer]

MM: Say, Ted, should we try to improve the defense this year?

TT: Nah. I'm comfortable fielding a poor defense. It doesn't bother me in the least.

MM: Me neither. I'm fine with our defense being poor. I don't care if they know how to tackle or anything.

TT: Cool.

I've lost track, is it Capers fault or MM/TT's fault?

[wist43]

I've lost track, is it Capers fault or MM/TT's fault?

Well, it's somebody's fault... most of PR won't acknowledge that there is any fault anywhere.

As I said, I like the players TT brought in - so, I go to the next link in the chain, which is Capers.

Not that complicated... besides, as others have pointed out, Capers has an MO everywhere he goes. Gets hired, first couple of years he's pretty good, but it's all downhill from there, and he gets fired in year 5.

[mraynrand]

Well, it's somebody's fault... most of PR won't acknowledge that there is any fault anywhere.

good lord. Strawmen again...

[woodbuck27]

No, not at all! In fact, he enjoys them! That's why he drafts injury prone players. It's a fantastically elaborate and intricate scheme to prevent blame from being laid on his shoulders. He drafts injury prone guys, they get hurt and he says "doggone it, we woulda won it all AGAIN, if not for those crazy injuries!"

Crazy and crafty like a Fox, that TT!

You must have gotten the crap kicked out of you a lot growing up.

[PlantPage55]

Actually, Atlanta was a roadgrading power football team. WE were the finesse team that turned them on their side.

This looks like it'll probably get glossed over, but it's a very good point. The only thing that separated them that year from a team like SF was a more dynamic QB. I've never been convinced that Matt Ryan will ever be a real franchise guy.

I don't believe a team "like" SF or Seattle would have stopped us that year either - though none of us could never prove it one way or another. After all, Pittsburgh was kinda like those teams too and we beat them pretty handily, really.

I think we were on such a tear that we couldn't be stopped. All I saw from our guys was laser-like focus, and that extended to our coaching staff, who called a handful of really brilliant games and handled all of the off-the-field pressure stuff absolutely perfectly. I was really impressed with MM's approach that year.

People like to say it was "luck", but getting "hot" is not the same as getting lucky. And it also undersells the quality job that everyone on our staff did, too.

Whether it's through retirement or a firing, MM and TT won't be in charge in a few years, I'd reckon, but I'll never take away or try to diminish what I saw as a very well-constructed run to our 13th championship.

As far as Mike Neal goes, I'm happy to see a relatively positive forum with regards to his signing. I'd like to point out something, just because I thought it was interesting:

Mike Neal 2013: 47 tackles, 5 sacks, 1 INT.
Lamarr Houston: 69 tackles, 6 sacks
Arthur Jones: 53 tackles, 4 sacks

Houston got $35 mil over 5 years, 15 mil guaranteed
Jones got 33 over 5 years, 10 guaranteed.

Seeing what we got Mike Neal for, I have to say I'm glad that TT stays away from the first few days of FA. Fans see Houston and Jones' names on a NFL.com "top FA" list and think they'll help our team. Well, they might have helped us, but what is the net gain? There's an opportunity cost of signing them and letting a guy like Neal go - or giving him less playtime - that goes deeper than just adding talent because you have the CAP space.

Don't get me wrong - I'm nervous as hell about the safety position. I'd have gone for SOMEONE out of that 1st day group, even if it was for more than you'd want to pay, because with Burnett as our only stable safety on the roster, the opportunity vs. cost is high.

I hope the safety thing works out for TT, because while I'd love an upgrade at ILB and NT - safety is the only place I can really say he's dropping the ball, talent-acquisition-wise.

[smuggler]

The reason Ted overvalues Brad Jones is that coverage linebackers who can also quasi-function against the run are VERY hard to come by. There are exactly zero of those players in the draft, by my count, unless you are counting CJ Mosley. The ENTIRE draft.

Jones is our nickel linebacker that we like to have cover tight ends, because Hawk is not much good at it. Ideally, on first and second down, BISHOP would have been out on the field, but Bishop's knee got destroyed. That's not Thompson's fault, and getting rid of our coverage linebacker does not help the situation. Because Brad Jones was so *important* to our defensive scheme, we paid to retain him.

It's not Ted overvaluing players. It's Ted protecting the team. If Jones were gone last season, the team would have been SO much worse. I know it's tough to imagine, because nobody actually likes having Brad Jones out there half the time, but it's damn true.

[Patler]

The reason Ted overvalues Brad Jones is that coverage linebackers who can also quasi-function against the run are VERY hard to come by. There are exactly zero of those players in the draft, by my count, unless you are counting CJ Mosley. The ENTIRE draft.

Jones is our nickel linebacker that we like to have cover tight ends, because Hawk is not much good at it. Ideally, on first and second down, BISHOP would have been out on the field, but Bishop's knee got destroyed. That's not Thompson's fault, and getting rid of our coverage linebacker does not help the situation. Because Brad Jones was so *important* to our defensive scheme, we paid to retain him.

It's not Ted overvaluing players. It's Ted protecting the team. If Jones were gone last season, the team would have been SO much worse. I know it's tough to imagine, because nobody actually likes having Brad Jones out there half the time, but it's damn true.

Yup. The same reason he always paid Brandon Chiller so well.

[Bretsky]

Yup. The same reason he always paid Brandon Chiller so well.

JAG Jones should have received about half of what Chiller; Chiller when healthy at his worst was better than JAJ on his best day IMO

I'm fine with Neal at that price because he does have upside

[3irty1]

I was a big supporter of Brad after his performance in 2012 but he's starting to flip me for two reasons. Number 1 is that he can't stay healthy which means he's contributing to the biggest problem the Packers have faced for 4 years running. Number 2 is that his strength is coverage but that goes to waste to some degree because his take on skills and discipline against the run are inconsistent enough to prevent aligning him over a TE.

[Carolina_Packer]

Well, it's somebody's fault... most of PR won't acknowledge that there is any fault anywhere.

As I said, I like the players TT brought in - so, I go to the next link in the chain, which is Capers.

Not that complicated... besides, as others have pointed out, Capers has an MO everywhere he goes. Gets hired, first couple of years he's pretty good, but it's all downhill from there, and he gets fired in year 5.

Just kiddin' with you, Wist. One thing we can agree on. We love the Packers. It's like your kids. You always love them, you don't always love what they choose to do!

Capers is like that teacher than you know has won awards, but they are not reaching your kid consistently. Everyone, including GM, coaches and players have their jobs to do. Players may be drafted for tendencies of working within a scheme, but good players can transcend schemes, take coaching and work within any scheme because they are capable of diagnosing plays pre-snap, communicating with teammates, taking good pursuit angles, winning one on one battles and making sure tackles. That you can fit into any scheme. Do we have enough of those types of players?